2022 University Cup

[Drummer]

OUA will NEVER get 4 slots. That was settled when Lakehead hosted in 2009. There was no wildcard OUA team because OUA were hosting and Lakehead lost in the OUA(W) Division semi finals. In 2010 Lakehead was a Queens Cup finalist so there was a wildcard team. Again keeping the OUA at 3 teams max.

That was the previous 6-team format and USPORTs introduced the non-host conference Wild-Card rule as a result. 2009 was the first year it was imposed. In 2009, Lakehead was the host along with two other OUA teams (McGill and Western). The OUA was also suppose to get the static rotational Wild-card this year as well which would have made it four(4) OUA teams. To void this, and any other host conference bias issues - the Wild-card rotation was 'jigged', prior to the season, to only offer the Wild-card to other conferences while maintaining the rotation.

Regardless of what is in the USPORTS rules, which are not well written, they can certainly have four teams in the current 8-team format if a team from the OUA hosts. I have no problem with it and you could argue it could be the best balanced conference approach (CWx2, AUSx2, OUA-Eastx2 & OUA-Westx2) depending on the host, but possible.

 

[Drummer]

I would prefer to return to a 5 or 6-team tournament (any format you chose). I like 8 but no team with a rank of 6, 7 or 8th has every won and only once or twice (my stats are at home) has even advanced to the final.

The #5 seeds has won twice since 1998, UNB in both cases and mainly as a result of being upset in the AUS Finals and the goofy USPORTS ranking rule of conference champions being 1-4.

This would also put more emphasis on winning their conference championships. UNB has taking advantage of the wild-card/conference runner-up the most and good for them, but who wins in 2009, 2016 or 2017 if they don't advance?

 

[AUS Fan]

"I have no problem with it and you could argue it could be the best balanced conference approach (CWx2, AUSx2, OUA-Eastx2 & OUA-Westx2) depending on the host, but possible."

You would have no problem with an OUA host team who got swept in 1st round of the playoffs instead of UNB who lost a tough 5 game series to SFX, who went on to beat SMU 2-1 in the final?

The host, Queens Cup teams and wildcard. That would be "balanced"?

 

[Rob]

I would prefer a return to the old four team format held in neutral ice. Just like the NCAA Frozen Four. It would certainly put more importance on winning the conference championship.

 

[AUS Fan]

I would prefer a return to the old four team format held in neutral ice. Just like the NCAA Frozen Four. It would certainly put more importance on winning the conference championship.

Great idea but my same question is fan support. TD Gardens had 17K for each of the 3 games this year. Other cities have had similar numbers. One reason the CIS opened it up for bids was because they lost money every year at Maple Leaf Gardens, and possibly at Varsity as well.

 

[Rob]

Great idea but my same question is fan support. TD Gardens had 17K for each of the 3 games this year. Other cities have had similar numbers. One reason the CIS opened it up for bids was because they lost money every year at Maple Leaf Gardens, and possibly at Varsity as well.

I concede it is highly unlikely to happen again for that reason. Unless they could find a smaller rink with low cost rent.

 

[Drummer]

You would have no problem with an OUA host team who got swept in 1st round of the playoffs instead of UNB who lost a tough 5 game series to SFX, who went on to beat SMU 2-1 in the final?

The host, Queens Cup teams and wildcard. That would be "balanced"?

You're assuming the host would be weak - could be their strong (maybe Carleton)?

4 OUA Teams in the current 8-team format - yes. I don't agree with 4 in the old 6-team format

Balanced in the sense that each conference would/could have 2 teams for 8. In the case of OUA, you have both OUA Conference champions, bronze 3rd place and a host - 3 of 4 have played their way their and maybe the host is strong (maybe - we can always hope). So it's possible to have two teams from each side of the OUA plus two from CW and AUS.

But as I mentioned in another post - no one lower than 5 has ever won, so there are too many teams. Unlike some other UNB fans here (smile) if you can't win the conference, I don't think you should go.

UNB lost to Toronto in '84 and Toronto walked over everyone to the finals. Should there have been a rematch in the finals? ... like UNB/Acadia in '98, UWO/UQTR in '02, ALB/USK in '05, UNB/UdeM in '07, McG/UWO in '12, UNB/SMU in '13 or UNB/X in '16 (wow - hadn't realized how many conf-final rematches there have been).

 

[Drummer]

I concede it is highly unlikely to happen again for that reason. Unless they could find a smaller rink with low cost rent.

I could work in the AUS or the right location in Ontario/Quebec, but not out west. You're rolling the dice on having a venue near your regional champion. In the AUS everyone is basically within 4hrs of each other. Somewhat the same in Ontario/Quebec, but you could be up to 10. In the west, the teams are way to far apart to take that gamble.

Even the CHL doesn't take that risk which is why they allow a host.

If you only take the Queen's Cup champion (I know people will say it's unfair), then you can have 3 champions and a host.

Maybe you we do away with hosts and guarantees all together and instead have best of 3 playdowns to the finals (CW vs OUA-West and AUS vs OUA-East), with tickets sales for these best of 3 series going to USPORTs plus some add revenue. Higher ranked teams host.

 

[Rob]

I could work in the AUS or the right location in Ontario/Quebec, but not out west. You're rolling the dice on having a venue near your regional champion. In the AUS everyone is basically within 4hrs of each other. Somewhat the same in Ontario/Quebec, but you could be up to 10. In the west, the teams are way to far apart to take that gamble.

Even the CHL doesn't take that risk which is why they allow a host.

If you only take the Queen's Cup champion (I know people will say it's unfair), then you can have 3 champions and a host.

Maybe you we do away with hosts and guarantees all together and instead have best of 3 playdowns to the finals (CW vs OUA-West and AUS vs OUA-East), with tickets sales for these best of 3 series going to USPORTs plus some add revenue. Higher ranked teams host.

Good point about the CHL always using a host team. Although I’m not sure if it is about cost as it is about having three conferences.

If Usports did decide to opt for the 4 team tournament that includes a host then the OUA would definitely have to make the Queen’s Cup a best of four.

Of course all this is unlikely to happen and we will be stuck with the same format in perpetuity.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

"I have no problem with it and you could argue it could be the best balanced conference approach (CWx2, AUSx2, OUA-Eastx2 & OUA-Westx2) depending on the host, but possible."

You would have no problem with an OUA host team who got swept in 1st round of the playoffs instead of UNB who lost a tough 5 game series to SFX, who went on to beat SMU 2-1 in the final?

The host, Queens Cup teams and wildcard. That would be "balanced"?

As opposed to Acadia this year? Or potentially PEI next year? Neither are powerhouses, but you can't just restrict host status to UNB and Alberta.

One thing to keep in mind is that being Host provides preparation and travel advantages. The Host team typically does better than its conference record suggests it should.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

Good point about the CHL always using a host team. Although I’m not sure if it is about cost as it is about having three conferences.

If Usports did decide to opt for the 4 team tournament that includes a host then the OUA would definitely have to make the Queen’s Cup a best of four.

Of course all this is unlikely to happen and we will be stuck with the same format in perpetuity.

Having a Memorial Cup Host is about Revenue. The Memorial Cup is a huge event that attracts lots of fans and scouts. They need to set the Host city so they can sell ticket packages / advertising / sponsorship. Costs are a factor too, but you're still looking at big transportation and hotel costs no matter where it is held.

Same for the University Cup ... just on a much smaller scale.

The RSEQ would never surrender its spot in the University Cup, so the OUA will always have two teams there.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

I could work in the AUS or the right location in Ontario/Quebec, but not out west. You're rolling the dice on having a venue near your regional champion. In the AUS everyone is basically within 4hrs of each other. Somewhat the same in Ontario/Quebec, but you could be up to 10. In the west, the teams are way to far apart to take that gamble.

Even the CHL doesn't take that risk which is why they allow a host.

If you only take the Queen's Cup champion (I know people will say it's unfair), then you can have 3 champions and a host.

Maybe you we do away with hosts and guarantees all together and instead have best of 3 playdowns to the finals (CW vs OUA-West and AUS vs OUA-East), with tickets sales for these best of 3 series going to USPORTs plus some add revenue. Higher ranked teams host.

I agree with everything other than the higher-ranking team hosting. Rankings are meaningless without inter-conference play.
To illustrate, does UQTR's victory this year mean that an OUA team should always be the No. 1 ranked team next year, followed by a CW team? No, it does not. But that's the untenable position you'd be in trying to rank teams across conferences that don't play each other.
And if the counter is that "the NCAA does it" ... they have inter-conference competition that enables them to create meaningful rankings.

 

[AdamMcg83]

The RSEQ would never surrender its spot in the University Cup, so the OUA will always have two teams there.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there were conditions when the RSEQ teams joined the OUA, one of them being that the RSEQ would maintain one national championship berth (via the OUA east division). I don't think you could cut down to one OUA rep without lawyers getting involved, and I don't know why USports would want to create a problem with one of their member conferences (who just happens to be their cash cow in football, the most marketable sport).

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there were conditions when the RSEQ teams joined the OUA, one of them being that the RSEQ would maintain one national championship berth (via the OUA east division). I don't think you could cut down to one OUA rep without lawyers getting involved, and I don't know why USports would want to create a problem with one of their member conferences (who just happens to be their cash cow in football, the most marketable sport).

It's that simple but not that hostile. In the mid-80s the RSEQ's three Quebec teams joined the OUA along with Ottawa. The Ottawa and Carleton Women's teams still currently compete in RSEQ, which is reminiscent of when Lakehead competed in the GPAC. Geography matters.

The RSEQ has a guaranteed spot in every USports National Championship. Don't think for one second they will be asked to surrender their spot in this ONE sport.

 

[AUS Fan]

As opposed to Acadia this year? Or potentially PEI next year? Neither are powerhouses, but you can't just restrict host status to UNB and Alberta.

One thing to keep in mind is that being Host provides preparation and travel advantages. The Host team typically does better than its conference record suggests it should.

I agree with this comment as it relates to the past season but (at the risk of slagging the OUA) I would say that the 3rd place AUS team is sometimes "better" than a Queens Cup finalist or OUA wildcard.

I've already stated that UPEI or DAL will never "win" their way to the Nationals, but the rest of the AUS has done that. We can beat this dead horse forever without a positive result.

 

[Hollywood3]

It's that simple but not that hostile. In the mid-80s the RSEQ's three Quebec teams joined the OUA along with Ottawa. The Ottawa and Carleton Women's teams still currently compete in RSEQ, which is reminiscent of when Lakehead competed in the GPAC. Geography matters.

The RSEQ has a guaranteed spot in every USports National Championship. Don't think for one second they will be asked to surrender their spot in this ONE sport.

There were no guaranteed berths for the CW and GPAC back in the day. The AUS no longer has a berth in volleyball nationals.

USports has Zero Principles when it comes to nationals.

 

[AdamMcg83]

There were no guaranteed berths for the CW and GPAC back in the day. The AUS no longer has a berth in volleyball nationals.

USports has Zero Principles when it comes to nationals.

The AUS doesn't have a sanctioned men's volleyball league, only women's - and the AUS champion does, indeed, get a spot in the women's volleyball nationals (it was Dal this year).

Try again.

 

[AUS Fan]

The AUS doesn't have a sanctioned men's volleyball league, only women's - and the AUS champion does, indeed, get a spot in the women's volleyball nationals (it was Dal this year).

Try again.

I knew that.....

 

[Hollywood3]

The AUS doesn't have a sanctioned men's volleyball league, only women's - and the AUS champion does, indeed, get a spot in the women's volleyball nationals (it was Dal this year).

Try again.

The RSEQ hasn't had a men's hockey League in decades. In fact, it never has. The QSSF once had a men's hockey conference.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

The RSEQ hasn't had a men's hockey League in decades. In fact, it never has. The QSSF once had a men's hockey conference.

They are the same organization. They just changed the name from QSSF to RSEQ, much like the CIAU - CIS - USports name changes.

 

[Hollywood3]

They are the same organization. They just changed the name from QSSF to RSEQ, much like the CIAU - CIS - USports name changes.

I looked it up and I was wrong. The last Quebec league was under the QUAA in 1986-87. They went through the entirety of the QSSF without a league and now 12 years of the RSEQ. Anyhow, there has been no Quebec league for 35 years now.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

The QUAA is still the same organization as the QSSF / RSEQ. Yes, it's been a long long time but it's always made geographic sense for the 3 Quebec teams to be in a joint league with the OUA teams.

 

[Hollywood3]

The QUAA is still the same organization as the QSSF / RSEQ. Yes, it's been a long long time but it's always made geographic sense for the 3 Quebec teams to be in a joint league with the OUA teams.

I agree that folding their league made sense. And it has remained folded for 35 years. Treating it like it exists makes no sense.

 

[Drummer]

The RSEQ would never surrender its spot in the University Cup, so the OUA will always have two teams there.

I would say that the RSEQ (Men's League) no longer exists and is afforded a chance at a spot, but are not 'guaranteed' a spot at the University Cup.

In 2019 there was no teams from Quebec as the OUA representatives were Carleton, Queen's and Guelph

The OUA will always have at least two spots (East & West) and a former RSEQ school has a fair chance at being the East or Bronze Team, but that's not a guarantee.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

I agree that the point now isn't that Quebec schools/conference are 'guaranteed' a spot at UCup. Rather it is simply a case that the OUA is a double-conference; it has more teams than the AUS and CanWest combined.