2022 University Cup

[MiamiHockeyII]

fwiw, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and state, for the record, that OUA will not get 4 teams.

I see where it is Bold Type, which indicates that it's new.

We'll see what kind of shelf life my prediction has because I fully expect an OUA team to get the bid after UPEI.

Good luck with that prediction. If not the OUA, which just hoisted the UCup, then which of the AUS vs. CW would get the extra bid?
It's been entrenched that the OUA gets 3, CW 2, AUS 2, Host 1, and there's no compelling argument to now change it.

 

[mikandi1]

fwiw, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and state, for the record, that OUA will not get 4 teams.

I see where it is Bold Type, which indicates that it's new.

We'll see what kind of shelf life my prediction has because I fully expect an OUA team to get the bid after UPEI.

OUA has never hosted in the 8 team format so anything is possible
AND if they are to get 4 teams if they bid as conference hosts...?
wouldn't/shouldn't someone try to host everytime!!
forsure that is a new add AUS
super clarke snuck that by the gardiner!
last question!
Does Ryerson draw fans? they are a commuter school so i wondered.
Definitely in the center of the universe and have hosted BBALL mens and womens but...not sure about dressing rooms etc
i feel the hockey bid would risky for them!?

 

[Rob]

It's in the official regulations that the OUA would get four slots if hosted by an OUA team:

View attachment 532888

Numbers wise it makes sense. I don't have an issue with it. Would certainly be better for attendance.

 

[AUS Fan]

Good luck with that prediction. If not the OUA, which just hoisted the UCup, then which of the AUS vs. CW would get the extra bid?
It's been entrenched that the OUA gets 3, CW 2, AUS 2, Host 1, and there's no compelling argument to now change it.

AUS will get 3 teams next year when UPEI is host. If OUA gets the bid, I would expect CW to get the nod, BUT with this latest change in the Regs, perhaps not.

If you look at the 2020 Regulations for 2021 it says this:

3. PARTICIPANTS 3.1
TEAMS The participating teams shall be:
OUA Representative
RSEQ Representative (Participates in the OUA Sport Conference – East Division)
Canada West Representative
Atlantic University Sport Representative
Host (University of Prince Edward Island)
Assigned berth rotating (CW)
Assigned berth rotating (OUA)
Assigned berth rotating (AUS)
(Refer to Policy 20.20.4.7 for more details)

This Should be the 2021 Regulations because UPEI didn't host in 2021. I'm of the opinion that CIS changed the "rule" to perhaps get more interest from OUA schools to bid.

 

[AUS Fan]

Numbers wise it makes sense. I don't have an issue with it. Would certainly be better for attendance.

I don't know why you keep thinking that attendance is great in the OUA.

It's not.

Having an extra team may do nothing attendance wise if their fans don't travel.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

AUS will get 3 teams next year when UPEI is host. If OUA gets the bid, I would expect CW to get the nod, BUT with this latest change in the Regs, perhaps not.

If you look at the 2020 Regulations for 2021 it says this:

3. PARTICIPANTS 3.1
TEAMS The participating teams shall be:
OUA Representative
RSEQ Representative (Participates in the OUA Sport Conference – East Division)
Canada West Representative
Atlantic University Sport Representative
Host (University of Prince Edward Island)
Assigned berth rotating (CW)
Assigned berth rotating (OUA)
Assigned berth rotating (AUS)
(Refer to Policy 20.20.4.7 for more details)

This Should be the 2021 Regulations because UPEI didn't host in 2021. I'm of the opinion that CIS changed the "rule" to perhaps get more interest from OUA schools to bid.

Remember when they went from 6 to 8 all they did was add two Rotating Berths so that each Conference got a second berth (RSEQ excluded of course). I think the wording "Rotating Birth" is an artifact of the change from 6 to 8 and nothing more.

 

[Rob]

I don't know why you keep thinking that attendance is great in the OUA.

It's not.

Having an extra team may do nothing attendance wise if their fans don't travel.

I’m pretty sure everyone here knows that the OUA has lower attendance. This is why they haven’t hosted for 16 years. Under the new format with four OUA teams I think it has a chance to work. Especially if it’s at Ryerson.

 

[mikandi1]

I’m pretty sure everyone here knows that the OUA has lower attendance. This is why they haven’t hosted for 16 years. Under the new format with four OUA teams I think it has a chance to work. Especially if it’s at Ryerson.

the above squirrel is dreaming imo
4 OUA teams should split the losses, then maybe it has a chance to work!? and i am hopin!
again just my opinion
anyone have the attendance #s at Rams games?

 

[AdamMcg83]

The Ontario attendance numbers are essentially the same across the board: 200-500, give or take. The outlier is Lakehead.

In a setting like nationals, most Ontario teams could draw well for the host game(s), and not much beyond that. For most OUA programs, there are several major junior and/or pro teams in the vicinity that monopolize the recurring fan bases and casual hockey fans. Usports hockey simply isn't a community draw in Ontario.

 

[Hollywood3]

I don't like the way USports cannot stick to one formula, nor even one set of principles, for all nationals.

Regarding hosts: Any team which agrees to the host criteria and has a sugar daddy is going to win the bid. USports doesn't care if the host loses money. If nobody comes forward then they might scale back to the women's criteria in future years.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

There are cities that get enough fan support to host back to back.
Halifax, Fredericton, Moncton, Saskatoon, Edmonton etc..
IMO, anywhere else would be a single year host.

 

[AUS Fan]

the above squirrel is dreaming imo
4 OUA teams should split the losses, then maybe it has a chance to work!? and i am hopin!
again just my opinion
anyone have the attendance #s at Rams games?

I looked at their schedule, but no attendance figures were shown.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

The Ontario attendance numbers are essentially the same across the board: 200-500, give or take. The outlier is Lakehead.

In a setting like nationals, most Ontario teams could draw well for the host game(s), and not much beyond that. For most OUA programs, there are several major junior and/or pro teams in the vicinity that monopolize the recurring fan bases and casual hockey fans. Usports hockey simply isn't a community draw in Ontario.

I'd say an equally important issue for OUA teams is a lack of suitable on-campus venues because renting an OHL barn is cost-prohibitive. Most OUA campus arenas have stands on one side with a capacity well below 2000, or are ancient (Varsity).
Ryerson is really the only OUA team with a suitable on-campus arena. If Queens really wanted it, they could make it work at the Memorial Centre because that arena has no permanent tenants. Otherwise, it's tough to find a good place to play in the OUA.

 

[AdamMcg83]

I looked at their schedule, but no attendance figures were shown.

Not many games have attendance listed, but I found one: the bronze medal game against McGill with a trip to nationals on the line drew 350.
I get that Mattamy is a tremendous rink, but Rams hockey is very low on the pecking order in Toronto for casual sports fan interest in late spring. If major junior couldn't survive in Toronto due to the abundance of sports and entertainment options, not sure that a nationals hosted by Rams hockey has much of a chance.

 

[AUS Fan]

The Ontario attendance numbers are essentially the same across the board: 200-500, give or take. The outlier is Lakehead.

In a setting like nationals, most Ontario teams could draw well for the host game(s), and not much beyond that. For most OUA programs, there are several major junior and/or pro teams in the vicinity that monopolize the recurring fan bases and casual hockey fans. Usports hockey simply isn't a community draw in Ontario.

I've been saying this for weeks and all I see are comments that if the OUA has 4 or 6 teams in the Nationals they can be successful. Lakehead had about 2700 at most of the games in 2009 IIRC. In Kitchener it was faster to introduce the fans then the starting line-ups.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

In Kitchener it was faster to introduce the fans then the starting line-ups.

Well played.

Kingston might be the exception to that if Queens were to host.
Exhibit A: Carr-Harris Cup attendance is around 4000:


... say what you will about Queens, but the city is built around that place. And, Kingston is close enough to Ottawa / Toronto / Montreal that fans of those schools can make a day trip. McGill and Carleton would be good draws.

The only issue with Kingston would be selling ticket packages. Lots of interest in single game tickets.

Mattamy Centre, on the other hand, would attract a lot more casual viewers. Yes, Ryerson doesn't draw particularly well ... but I suspect the UCup would attract enough of the large, knowledgeable hockey crowd in the GTA. For comparison, the U15 OHL Cup Final was pretty packed there this month:

 

[AdamMcg83]

Well played.

Kingston might be the exception to that if Queens were to host.
Exhibit A: Carr-Harris Cup attendance is around 4000:


... say what you will about Queens, but the city is built around that place. And, Kingston is close enough to Ottawa / Toronto / Montreal that fans of those schools can make a day trip. McGill and Carleton would be good draws.

The only issue with Kingston would be selling ticket packages. Lots of interest in single game tickets.

Mattamy Centre, on the other hand, would attract a lot more casual viewers. Yes, Ryerson doesn't draw particularly well ... but I suspect the UCup would attract enough of the large, knowledgeable hockey crowd in the GTA. For comparison, the U15 OHL Cup Final was pretty packed there this month:

I'm not convinced that you can use the OHL cup final as a reference point. First, this was a championship game between two local teams, not a quarterfinal between an AUS team and a CW team. Second, the Misa factor was definitely at play - there's an appeal to being able to say, "I saw the next McDavid when he was 15." And finally, communities rally around minor hockey much better than something like Usports, where you need more than just a tie to the community - you need a tie to the school to really be invested.

I hope I have the chance to be proven wrong someday, but I have a very hard time believing Mattamy is the answer in Ontario. Remember, this tournament used to be in that building every year, but it was moved because there wasn't enough interest in non-host teams.

The best way forward is for USports to realize that a 1200-seat sellout is a better atmosphere than 1200 people in an 8000-seat barn, and adjust their host price tag accordingly.

 

[Rob]

We’ve been talking hypothetically here about potential hosts. How about UPEI next year? I feel fairly confident they will have a solid amount of fans. Their first game will definitely sell out. Not sure how many ticket packages they will sell but it should be a decent amount.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

We’ve been talking hypothetically here about potential hosts. How about UPEI next year? I feel fairly confident they will have a solid amount of fans. Their first game will definitely sell out. Not sure how many ticket packages they will sell but it should be a decent amount.

How was attendance when they hosted the Women's University Cup?

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

I'm not convinced that you can use the OHL cup final as a reference point. First, this was a championship game between two local teams, not a quarterfinal between an AUS team and a CW team. Second, the Misa factor was definitely at play - there's an appeal to being able to say, "I saw the next McDavid when he was 15." And finally, communities rally around minor hockey much better than something like Usports, where you need more than just a tie to the community - you need a tie to the school to really be invested.

I hope I have the chance to be proven wrong someday, but I have a very hard time believing Mattamy is the answer in Ontario. Remember, this tournament used to be in that building every year, but it was moved because there wasn't enough interest in non-host teams.

The best way forward is for USports to realize that a 1200-seat sellout is a better atmosphere than 1200 people in an 8000-seat barn, and adjust their host price tag accordingly.

The counter argument is that for every university no city (outside their home) has more alumni living in it than Toronto.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

Last time UNB hosted the UCup I was told they had to pretty much sell out the AUC (~3500 seats) for the tournament just to break even and cover the USports guarantees. So probably more reasons to have a 3000+ seat rink for hosts. By that math UPEI should be OK next year if they sell most of their ticket packages.

 

[dm8895]

Everyone always says “Toronto is the center of the hockey world” , I feel people confuse that with the reality which is “The Leafs are the center of the NHL world”. Toronto isn’t a great hockey city , it’s a great NHL city.

 

[Rob]

How was attendance when they hosted the Women's University Cup?

Not sure. I do know that they played at the tournament at their home rink. When they host the men's it will be at the Eastlink Centre which seats about 3700.

Before COVID the Panthers were getting about 1000 fans a game. Which is great attendance for Usports hockey. Also, keep in mind that they have to compete against a local QMJHL team. I find that they have very good support amongst the alumni.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Not sure. I do know that they played at the tournament at their home rink. When they host the men's it will be at the Eastlink Centre which seats about 3700.

Before COVID the Panthers were getting about 1000 fans a game. Which is great attendance for Usports hockey. Also, keep in mind that they have to compete against a local QMJHL team. I find that they have very good support amongst the alumni.

I'm confident UPEI will draw well.

 

[AUS Fan]

How was attendance when they hosted the Women's University Cup?

I had a quick look thru the box scores. UPEI had 1000 and 500 for their games. Other games where they had attendance stat were in the 500-700 range.