2022-2023 Non-Stars NHL Discussion

[Satan]

vegas vs winnipeg last night... Bones had the game right where he wanted it lmao

 

[Captain Awesome]

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vegas vs winnipeg last night... Bones had the game right where he wanted it lmao

Miro Heiskanen has saved multiple jobs in the Stars organization, this is what it looks like without him.

 

[Satan]

Miro Heiskanen has saved multiple jobs in the Stars organization, this is what it looks like without him.

Connor Hellebuyck is also putting lipstick on the Winnipeg Jets' pig

 

[Zapp]

Connor Hellebuyck is also putting lipstick on the Winnipeg Jets' pig

Winnipig

 

[serp]

Starting to wonder if/when things start to happen in Leafs land. The team obviously needs some kind of change but do you let the lameduck GM make major changes ? Would Dubas get canned too when Leafs start to make changes ?

 

[Smelling Salt]

Starting to wonder if/when things start to happen in Leafs land. The team obviously needs some kind of change but do you let the lameduck GM make major changes ? Would Dubas get canned too when Leafs start to make changes ?

I think Dubas and Keefe will be gone if they don't make a serious playoff run this season. With Dubas' contract not yet being renewed I think the organization made that pretty obvious.

I don't think Keefe is anything special as a coach, and him/his staff don't seem smart enough to fix their defensive warts. Alot of that is not having great D in the first place. A more concentrated team game would help but it seems Keefe, the players or both just don't seem capable. Their goaltending is just laughable as well which is not helping things.

 

[serp]

In 2 years the whole Leafs core outside of Reilly could be gone. Nylander and Matthews become UFA at the end of next season and the year after that Marner and Tavares. Unbelieveable how little the team archived so far. The contracts everybody signed there are expiring soon and they still haven't won a playoff round .

If the core just desintegrates in 2-3 years and the Leafs have to rebuild that might go down as one of the greatest failures in NHL history .

 

[Frozen Failure]

In 2 years the whole Leafs core outside of Reilly could be gone. Nylander and Matthews become UFA at the end of next season and the year after that Marner and Tavares. Unbelieveable how little the team archived so far. The contracts everybody signed there are expiring soon and they still haven't won a playoff round .

If the core just desintegrates in 2-3 years and the Leafs have to rebuild that might go down as one of the greatest failures in NHL history .

Think about how much money they've made selling the dream and then not delivering on it. Mission accomplished.

 

[Sports2]

I’m officially beginning the grieving process if anyone would like to join me and get it out of the way

 

[Henderson33]

DeBrincat is the guy we should be upset about because I feel like well over 50% of the posters here wanted him, and I think there was a few who wanted Howden.

Nobody here wanted Tage so passing on him isn't fair to throw on management now.

 

[LT]

It's even stupider when you realize Tage is (and has been for several years) what management wanted Tufte to be.

We can absolutely fault them for this one.

 

[Smelling Salt]

Tufte seems like a guy they scouted on paper. That might be fine for a pick towards the end of the draft in some cases but not for a 1st rounder - even if it is a late one.

 

[Satan]

DeBrincat is the guy we should be upset about because I feel like well over 50% of the posters here wanted him, and I think there was a few who wanted Howden.

Nobody here wanted Tage so passing on him isn't fair to throw on management now.

yup- claiming anything otherwise is revisionist history unless the posters have receipts

 

[Satan]

Also let's not pretend Tufte is the ugly duckling after #15 in this draft.

Tage is sick.
Chychrun is an impact player.
Fabbro is steady.
That's really it though.

Ultimately, Tufte is just a guy in a sea of guys.

 

[Smelling Salt]

Yeah I was never and am still not mad at the 25th overall pick not panning out. Talk to me in a few years about Bichsel at #18 and I might get more annoyed though

 

[masinaLFC]

yeah, no need to worry much about 25th overall pick... but I'm still so mad about Guryanov pick

 

[eartotheground]

i save all my ire for nuke and glennie

 

[WhoahNow]

i save all my ire for nuke and glennie

I mean based on his play now, Nuke was the right pick. Just couldnt make it work here

 

[LT]

Nuke was never a bad pick. He was a fantastic choice on draft day, and in a redraft I think he goes even higher. It was never about ability with him, it was all mental and that is a VERY difficult aspect to consider appropriately on draft day.

If we're gonna go back to 2009 (worse, bad, fine, good, great):
Glennie: bad then, worse now
Campbell: bad then, worse now
Oleksiak: good then, fine now
Faksa: good then, fine now
Nichushkin: great then, great now
Dickinson: fine then, fine now
Honka: bad then, worse now
Gurianov: worse then, even worse now
Tufte: fine then, bad now
Heiskanen: great then, great now
Oettinger: fine then, great now

2018-2022 are still too early to fairly evaluate, IMO. I prefer to give drafts 5 years before really evaluating the quality of each pick.

 

[Kcb12345]

Erik Karlsson has a hat trick tonight wtf. He's been insane this season. That's 9 goals and 15 points in 12 games

 

[serp]

Sharks going to get great value for EK65 afterall whenever they find a trade partner with how he's been playing because despite Karlsson playing great the Sharks are really bad

 

[Smelling Salt]

Karlsson probably has zero f***s to give. Team in the gutter, so lets go marble bag out on offense

 

[Captain Awesome]

Nuke was never a bad pick. He was a fantastic choice on draft day, and in a redraft I think he goes even higher. It was never about ability with him, it was all mental and that is a VERY difficult aspect to consider appropriately on draft day.

If we're gonna go back to 2009 (worse, bad, fine, good, great):
Glennie: bad then, worse now
Campbell: bad then, worse now
Oleksiak: good then, fine now
Faksa: good then, fine now
Nichushkin: great then, great now
Dickinson: fine then, fine now
Honka: bad then, worse now
Gurianov: worse then, even worse now
Tufte: fine then, bad now
Heiskanen: great then, great now
Oettinger: fine then, great now

2018-2022 are still too early to fairly evaluate, IMO. I prefer to give drafts 5 years before really evaluating the quality of each pick.

I think I hated the Tufte pick on day 1, he's a trap player. He's big, he can skate, that's about it. It never really went anywhere. Dickinson is another one that just seems stupid. It's the late first, swing for upside. From a perspective of stakes, obviously a 25th or a 30th overall pick aren't anything to cry about, but if you never even tried to draft someone who could be an impact player you deserve shit as a scouting group.

The Gurianov draft is probably the worst one because of how many hits there were in the mid first round, but I think the Campbell draft is a solid contender. Still mad they didn't make the most obvious pick in the universe and drafted Cam Fowler. How so many teams f***ed up and didn't pick a d-man who was NHL ready from day 1 and was instantly a top 4 d-man, especially when they needed someone like Cam Fowler so badly at the time, blows my mind.

Faksa is a weird one, in hindsight some really good players went just after him, Wilson, Hertl, Teravainen, but there was a point in time where I thought Faksa was turning a corner and was flirting with being a 2nd line center. Then they stuck him with grinders and the rest is history. Somewhere between development, injury, and that he was never going to be as good as someone like Hertl, it's a disappointment. I don't know if it was at the time, though, so the hindsight bias is real. I don't remember the draft that well, but I do remember consensus being pretty thrilled with the pick. The Stars have sucked at drafting and developing, but I think Faksa is maybe the muddiest case to figure out which one was the more important aspect. In a lot of other cases it feels fairly clear cut, but Faksa is somewhere in the middle.

 

[starsfan86]

I think I hated the Tufte pick on day 1, he's a trap player. He's big, he can skate, that's about it. It never really went anywhere. Dickinson is another one that just seems stupid. It's the late first, swing for upside. From a perspective of stakes, obviously a 25th or a 30th overall pick aren't anything to cry about, but if you never even tried to draft someone who could be an impact player you deserve shit as a scouting group.

The Gurianov draft is probably the worst one because of how many hits there were in the mid first round, but I think the Campbell draft is a solid contender. Still mad they didn't make the most obvious pick in the universe and drafted Cam Fowler. How so many teams f***ed up and didn't pick a d-man who was NHL ready from day 1 and was instantly a top 4 d-man, especially when they needed someone like Cam Fowler so badly at the time, blows my mind.

Faksa is a weird one, in hindsight some really good players went just after him, Wilson, Hertl, Teravainen, but there was a point in time where I thought Faksa was turning a corner and was flirting with being a 2nd line center. Then they stuck him with grinders and the rest is history. Somewhere between development, injury, and that he was never going to be as good as someone like Hertl, it's a disappointment. I don't know if it was at the time, though, so the hindsight bias is real. I don't remember the draft that well, but I do remember consensus being pretty thrilled with the pick. The Stars have sucked at drafting and developing, but I think Faksa is maybe the muddiest case to figure out which one was the more important aspect. In a lot of other cases it feels fairly clear cut, but Faksa is somewhere in the middle.

I think I wanted Rubstov that year but he became a bust as well so I can’t be too mad about the 2016 draft. Would have been nice to snag Thompson or DeBrincat tho.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Nuke was never a bad pick. He was a fantastic choice on draft day, and in a redraft I think he goes even higher. It was never about ability with him, it was all mental and that is a VERY difficult aspect to consider appropriately on draft day.

If we're gonna go back to 2009 (worse, bad, fine, good, great):
Glennie: bad then, worse now
Campbell: bad then, worse now
Oleksiak: good then, fine now
Faksa: good then, fine now
Nichushkin: great then, great now
Dickinson: fine then, fine now
Honka: bad then, worse now
Gurianov: worse then, even worse now
Tufte: fine then, bad now
Heiskanen: great then, great now
Oettinger: fine then, great now

2018-2022 are still too early to fairly evaluate, IMO. I prefer to give drafts 5 years before really evaluating the quality of each pick.

Although I never put as much research into the draft as some here do, I recall being pissed at the Glennie pick, because it seemed clear part of his big offensive numbers were linemate related.

Campbell was picked on a small sample size of stellar play, similar to Otter's playoff dominance, that was still seen as a reach by most.

Oleksiak, Nuke, and Faksa seemed to be the right pick. Don't recall all that much about the JD pick, but think he was ranked low first or high second round.

I liked the slick skating pick of Honka, but he had zero IQ.

I hated the Guri pick. I was at the Gold mines in CA when I heard, and still recall letting out a few expletives. Yes, he had speed, but he had never really produced at that age. I dislike picks based on a combine or some limited skill set, preferring someone who has produced at lower levels, preferably in the most competitive leagues.

My gut feel on Tufte was bad, but he was picked right about where he was ranked. As mentioned, it also felt like a size and speed pick, and he was pretty good in MN junior hockey, but it just never felt to me like he would pan out.

Obviously, Nill's more recent picks are looking good, but as noted, it may be too early to tell.