Player Discussion: 2019-2020 Goaltending

[Ggg99]

I could not agree more. Almost all goalie stats are, in fact, team stats. Even a save percentage doesn't tell you about the quality of shots, or if they were rebounds, or if they took place with a man in the box. More than any other player, the "eye test" is necessary for a complete picture of how well a goalie is doing.

I agree, the "eye test" completes the picture and through the pre-season Brossoit looks better. More comfortable and confident, not fighting the puck.

Also agree save percentage doesn't tell you about the quality of shots but for two goalies on the same team shot quality should be roughly the same. All the more reason why save percentage in this case is very significant.

Bottom line is who stops the most pucks. Save percentage tells the tale.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I've enjoyed reading @puck stoppa 's goaltending analysis in the past, and I'm hoping he will grace us with more of those this season. No pressure.

 

[Jets4Life]

The Lightening only have to go back to last year's regular season to feel not too bad about their goaltending. You need to go back two years, before the last goaltending equipment adjustments, before you see evidence of any positive consistency with Hellebuyck. But I'm cheering for you and your Polar Blue coloured glasses... this is a case where I'm fine to be proven wrong by the eternal optimists out there.

Geez...you must have been great to listen to during the Pavelec years.

What part of better than average do you not understand about Hellebuyck? He has been above average for the past two seasons. With the way you are going on about him, one would think Eric Comrie started in net for 3/4 of the past season.

 

[puck stoppa]

I've enjoyed reading @puck stoppa 's goaltending analysis in the past, and I'm hoping he will grace us with more of those this season. No pressure.

Anyone pretending to be a goalie can give their analysis
Having said that fwiw I may chime in a bit very soon so stay tuned.........

 

[Eyeseeing]

Hellebuyck hasn’t looked very good in the preseason, having said that who cares.
The games start for real this week and that’s all that matters.
Hellebuyck was not bad overall last year and he actually got better as the team got worse.
I think his stats were better than Binnington’s in our series again them.
I’m not worried about him

 

[Jets4Life]

Sure let's lookup the overall stats.

2018-19 Reg Season: Brossoit was .925 . Hellebuyck was .913
2019-20 Pre-Season: Brossoit was .950 . Hellebuyck was .813

Pre-season means nothing to players who are guaranteed to have a roster spot.

Brossoit was better last year.

...before All-Star break. Brossoit was coming down to earth very quickly.. Brossoit was below 0.900 for his last 9 games, all of them down the stretch. He also went 3-5-1 during that period. Brossoit has always been streaky, has not proven reliable for anything over 20 games in a season. He reminds me of Montoya.

Brossoit looks like the better goalie right now. He himself said he is the best goalie in the NHL in the FreePress. Maybe a stretch but good for him and he is at least the best goalie on the Winnipeg Jets. He looks confident and more comfortable in the net than the other guy.

There is a big difference between being confident,and being delusional. If he thinks he is the best goalie in the NHL,then he is out to lunch.

Really frustrating to watch Hellybuyck play through stretches of bad games while we have Brossoit sitting on the bench.

Like after All-Star break 2018-19, when Brossoit buckled under pressure, and Hellebuyck found his groove, and played lights out?

 

[Jets4Life]

My main beef about Helle is the contract he was gifted for one great season when the entire team played an amazing brand of hockey. Too much $ and too much term. Hoping he regains his consistent, puck tracking form and it becomes one less thing to worry/gripe about.

Not so sure "gifted is the right word. Hellebucyk salary is comparable to Gibson, Crawford, Holtby, Schneider, Quick, and Jones.

Save percentages and wins for the following. A list of goalie who make within $500,000 AAV as Hellebuyck:

1. Gibson (.917) 26 wins ($6,400,000)
2. Hellebuyck (.913) 34 wins ($6,166,700)
3. Holtby (.911) 32 wins ($6,100,000)
4. Crawford (.908) 14 wins ($6,000,000)
5. Schneider (.903) 26 wins ($6,000,000)
6. Jones (.896) 36 wins ($5,750,000)
7. Quick (.888) 16 wins ($5,800,000)

 

[Heldig]

Not so sure "gifted is the right word. Hellebucyk salary is comparable to Gibson, Crawford, Holtby, Schneider, Quick, and Jones.

Save percentages and wins for the following. A list of goalie who make within $500,000 AAV as Hellebuyck:

1. Gibson (.917) 26 wins
2. Hellebuyck (.913) 34 wins
3. Holtby (.911) 32 wins
4. Crawford (.908) 14 wins
5. Schneider (.903) 26 wins
6. Jones (.896) 36 wins
7. Quick (.888) 16 wins

Good perspective.

I am a fan of Helle (have been since his UMass days) just not the contract. More philosophical than anything. Goalies are voodoo. Way too many times we have seen goalies be amazing only to disappear.

**And I will agree gifted is not the best word.

 

[LowLefty]

Probably played a few too many games LY - these guys are under huge pressure and Helle doesn't strike me as the type that needs to play every game to be at his best (even if he thinks he can).
Having a good #2 will also help him - he needs to be pushed a bit and it also gives him a break.
I like where we are with these 2 stoppers -

 

[Ggg99]

Pre-season means nothing to players who are guaranteed to have a roster spot.



...before All-Star break. Brossoit was coming down to earth very quickly.. Brossoit was below 0.900 for his last 9 games, all of them down the stretch. He also went 3-5-1 during that period. Brossoit has always been streaky, has not proven reliable for anything over 20 games in a season. He reminds me of Montoya.



There is a big difference between being confident,and being delusional. If he thinks he is the best goalie in the NHL,then he is out to lunch.



Like after All-Star break 2018-19, when Brossoit buckled under pressure, and Hellebuyck found his groove, and played lights out?

Bottom line is who stops the most pucks. Save percentage tells the tale.

 

[WolfgangPuck]

There some interest from Leaf fans wanting to pick up Comrie off waivers Let’s see if Leaf management feels the same way later today.

 

[PhilJets]

Here's to Helly bouncing back to Vezina form.
His crease is goig to be crowded more.
But the D now will be able to transition out faster when they gets the puck.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Bottom line is who stops the most pucks. Save percentage tells the tale.

The problem is, the size of the book it needs to "tell the tale" is massive, and the accuracy of the writing varies WILDLY for VERY large stretches, yet the calls for Hellebuyck's head have begun after 6 preseason periods. Some started after 4.

 

[Jets4Life]

There some interest from Leaf fans wanting to pick up Comrie off waivers Let’s see if Leaf management feels the same way later today.

LOL

Let the Leafs have our "sloppy seconds." The Birdman will prevail.

 

[DRW204]

is Helle the worst starter in the division?

 

[tbcwpg]

is Helle the worst starter in the division?

No. Dubnyk is inconsistent, Binnington has only played half a year so theres slight hesitation, Grubauer hasn't been a clear starter going into a season yet.

 

[DRW204]

No. Dubnyk is inconsistent, Binnington has only played half a year so theres slight hesitation, Grubauer hasn't been a clear starter going into a season yet.

idk, i don't think there's a starter in the division id confidently put Helle ahead of. Dubnyk might be inconsistent but Helle hasn't proven consistency either, both of them put up a 913 this past season. in terms of GSAA Helle ranked last of all the goalies in our division last season (includes Lehner NYI's numbers). Binnington is the obvious question mark, Grubauer i think is good though.

 

[tbcwpg]

idk, i don't think there's a starter in the division id confidently put Helle ahead of. Dubnyk might be inconsistent but Helle hasn't proven consistency either, both of them put up a 913 this past season. in terms of GSAA Helle ranked last of all the goalies in our division last season (includes Lehner NYI's numbers). Binnington is the obvious question mark, Grubauer i think is good though.

I don't see much from those goalies that would say they're obviously better than Hellebuyck either. Grubauer hit his career high in games played last season with 37.

Lehner has never hit his last season's numbers before, and it took a Trotz system to do it. Chicago is far worse defensively. Dubnyk looks good against the Jets a lot, and I think it clouds some peoples' view of him as a goalie, because he's not great.

 

[DRW204]

I don't see much from those goalies that would say they're obviously better than Hellebuyck either. Grubauer hit his career high in games played last season with 37.

Lehner has never hit his last season's numbers before, and it took a Trotz system to do it. Chicago is far worse defensively. Dubnyk looks good against the Jets a lot, and I think it clouds some peoples' view of him as a goalie, because he's not great.

Lehner did put up a 920 (59 gp) and a 924 (21 gp) in garbage buffalo, had a poor 3rd season. i don't expect him to be as good as NYI, but i really wouldn't be surprised if he's in the 917-920 range. Perhaps im a bit higher on Grubauer than you are, every time he's given more of the reigns he's performed really strongly. I wouldn't be surprised if given the same amount of GP this year he's superior to Helle.

perhaps posing the question if Helle is the worst was a bit hyperbole, but i just don't see our starting goalie as a competitive advantage really over the teams in our division.

even if you lump defense personnel+goaltending together, id reckon WPG is currently at the bottom of the division, with the exception of CHI possibly - however they've had some additions where i can see them being surprisingly ahead of WPG, I like their net-additions of CDH, Maata and Lehner.

 

[Arctichero]

Arizona just picked up Comrie on waivers, as per TSN.ca

 

[trebendan]

Will the Jets now sign someone - Neuvirth, maybe?

 

[Ggg99]

The problem is, the size of the book it needs to "tell the tale" is massive, and the accuracy of the writing varies WILDLY for VERY large stretches, yet the calls for Hellebuyck's head have begun after 6 preseason periods. Some started after 4.

The book is much larger than 6 preseason periods. Maybe this previous tale was not a best seller so is being forgotten....

2018-19 Reg Season: Brossoit was .925 . Hellebuyck was .913

 

[Ducky10]

The book is much larger than 6 preseason periods. Maybe this previous tale was not a best seller so is being forgotten....

2018-19 Reg Season: Brossoit was .925 . Hellebuyck was .913

Career 49 games, .911
212 games .915

 

[Tommigun]

Brossoit had a 0.955 save pct and 1.00 GAA in the preaseason. How is it possible he’s not allowed to challenge for the #1 job, or at least alternating starts?

 

[DRW204]

Brossoit had a 0.955 save pct and 1.00 GAA in the preaseason. How is it possible he’s not allowed to challenge for the #1 job, or at least alternating starts?

they gave Helle 37M dollars, that's probably why