League News: 2016-17 General NHL Fan Talk - Part the Second (News n' Scores n' Stuff)

[Holtbyisms]

They traded their draft pick not Carlson. And the fact that Carlson went late in the first means scouts didn't think he would be this good. Evaluate the trade as Eminger for #28 overall, or whatever it was.

Agreed, I think he was a little underrated partially cause he didn't go the NCAA route an an American and partially cause he played for a Hunter team(system-system-system). If anyone had known Carlson was this guy he would have gone top 10 easily. Perhaps top 5 depends on your preferences. Absolutely loaded class for defenders and he got overlooked.

 

[trick9]

Total the numbers. This group has combined for 34,821 goals, 56,394 assists, 91,215 points and 5,445 wins by goaltenders in the regular season.

Lack of scoring is evident in the Top 100 -group.

 

[usiel]

They traded their draft pick not Carlson. And the fact that Carlson went late in the first means scouts didn't think he would be this good. Evaluate the trade as Eminger for #28 overall, or whatever it was.

Eminger had a decent playoffs before the draft so IMHO the Flyers likely though he had turned the corner development wise a bit. That was my thoughts at the time of the trade.

 

[RandyHolt]

Eminger had a decent playoffs before the draft so IMHO the Flyers likely though he had turned the corner development wise a bit. That was my thoughts at the time of the trade.

The Flyers should have traded for Erskine as well, as it was that pairing that was turned effective.

Very effective, to the point Bruce was starting games with that pair.

It was Erskine that went ballistic and took names in that series. Erskine went on to more decent playoff performances with us, and Eminger vanished. If there was a Dman of ours that fit the tough guy mold of the flyers, it was Erskine of course.

 

[Hivemind]

Eminger was the 25 year old former first rounder. The Flyers obviously valued him higher than they should have (even though Washington did throw in a 3rd round pick, it wasn't straight up), but it's completely understandable that they would value him over Erskine. Erskine was three years older and was basically a journeyman enforcer up until that point. He had spent some time in the AHL in every season prior to that one, and even in 2007-08 he wasn't an every game player (he only played 51 games).

Agreed, I think he was a little underrated partially cause he didn't go the NCAA route an an American and partially cause he played for a Hunter team(system-system-system). If anyone had known Carlson was this guy he would have gone top 10 easily. Perhaps top 5 depends on your preferences. Absolutely loaded class for defenders and he got overlooked.

He'd probably go Top 10 if you redrafted today, but I wouldn't guarantee it. Karlsson, Doughty, Stamkos, and Pietrangelo are the obvious top 4 in the draft. After that there's a group of Carlson, Josi, Myers, Hamonic, Brodie, Atkinson, Stepan, Eberle, and Holtby that could go in almost any order. And if you're purely basing it off hockey skill, you could consider Voynov in there as well. Depending on your preferences, it's entirely possible he could slip to 12 or 13. That draft was loaded with defensemen.

 

[hockeykicker]

Isles getting kicked out of their own arena. Now what for them?

 

[Hivemind]

Isles getting kicked out of their own arena. Now what for them?

Their lease is still good. If Brooklyn backs out, they still get two years to find a new home. They could agree to leave earlier, but would obviously need a new place in order to do so. The Coliseum has been renovated and now has even fewer seats (somehow), so a return is unlikely. There's talk of new arenas, and the league is reiterating their commitment to keeping them in the NYC area. But there's also that distant rumbling of relocation.

 

[ovikovy817]

Isles getting kicked out of their own arena. Now what for them?

This is also Tom Wilson's fault?

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Their lease is still good. If Brooklyn backs out, they still get two years to find a new home. They could agree to leave earlier, but would obviously need a new place in order to do so. The Coliseum has been renovated and now has even fewer seats (somehow), so a return is unlikely. There's talk of new arenas, and the league is reiterating their commitment to keeping them in the NYC area. But there's also that distant rumbling of relocation.

They have two years to find a new home, but that's just about the time it takes to build a new arena, so they have to start building now. Where would they build it?
Relocation is a serious possibility.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

They have two years to find a new home, but that's just about the time it takes to build a new arena, so they have to start building now. Where would they build it?
Relocation is a serious possibility.

New York Americans redux, share the Garden with the Rangers, at least short term.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

New York Americans redux, share the Garden with the Rangers, at least short term.

MSG is one of the busiest arenas in the world. Between the Rangers, the Knicks and the 10 000 shows and concerts, you couldn't fit 41 Islanders home games in there. If they were to share an arena, they'd probably ask to share the Prudential Centre with the Devils.

Or, they could just relocate to Quebec

 

[Calicaps]

Isles getting kicked out of their own arena. Now what for them?

I'd say I feel bad for Isles fans, but they already got screwed by the move. There's no demand in Brooklyn. Send them back to Coliseum, fewer seats or no. At least it's not falling down anymore.

 

[txpd]

I'd say I feel bad for Isles fans, but they already got screwed by the move. There's no demand in Brooklyn. Send them back to Coliseum, fewer seats or no. At least it's not falling down anymore.

I don't think the league wants a team that has won all those Stanley Cups to disappear like that. They are kind of stuck.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Why would you feel bad for them? They have no respect for us, shutting down their dump of a barn is the best thing the Caps have done in a decade.

 

[Corby78]

Even as a non-isles fan the situation is sad. They leave a historic arena for greener pastures because they couldn't make money. End up in a basketball arena not fit for a ECHL hockey team that then kicks them out. Now they are going homeless and have no answers. Can't go back, no money to build, can't go to MSG. NHL historic franchise living under the bridge in a box. Sad

 

[BiPolar Caps]

MSG is one of the busiest arenas in the world. Between the Rangers, the Knicks and the 10 000 shows and concerts, you couldn't fit 41 Islanders home games in there. If they were to share an arena, they'd probably ask to share the Prudential Centre with the Devils.

Or, they could just relocate to Quebec

It can be done. New York City is too important to the NHL. Creative scheduling i.e. increase in matinee games creating a hockey double-header, shows/concerts destined for MSG flipped to the 41 or so dates at Barclay created by the Islanders departure thus creating openings for the Islanders at MSG etc. all on a short term basis for a year or two at MSG until they find a new location for the Islanders such as an arena built at Belmont Park. Two teams sharing the same arena/stadium on a short term basis is nothing new in New York.

The team's attendance has dropped to third lowest in the NHL, Arizona and Carolina are lower. From what I've read, their attendance at the Barclay Center is at 83% and was at 95% their last season at Nassau Coliseum. Has nothing to do with the product on the ice but rather the Barclay Center was never designed for hockey, i.e. obstructed views, poor ice conditions etc..

Quebec should either hope for expansion or the relocation of Carolina or Florida. As I said, the New York market is way too important to the NHL.

 

[BobRouse]

They traded their draft pick not Carlson. And the fact that Carlson went late in the first means scouts didn't think he would be this good. Evaluate the trade as Eminger for #28 overall, or whatever it was.

I'd disagree here.

In this situation the Flyers were on the board I thought. IF that was the case then the Caps were targeting Carlson.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Now the Green situation was different. The Caps traded Lang for Detroit's 1st and Flash in the prior TDL without knowing how the draft board was going to turn out.

With the Carlson situation it was totally different. (Again if my memory serves me right)

3. Acquired Steve Eminger and a 3rd round pick from Washington for a 1st round pick(John Carlson)

The Flyers made two deals in the first round of the 2008 entry draft. They shipped forward RJ Umberger to Columbus for the 19th pick and selected defenseman Luca Sbisa. They then traded their own pick, at 27th overall to the Capitals for Steve Eminger and a 3rd rounder. The Caps selected US Olympian John Carlson, an exceptional offensive defenseman, who would be an ideal fit for the Flyers right about now.

The Flyers got 12 games from Eminger, before packaging him with 2005 1st rounder Steve Downie in a deal for Tampa Bay defenseman Matt Carle. Carle played very well for the Flyers from 2008-2012, before returning to Tampa Bay as a free agent.

In addition to Carlson, other players on the draft board when the Flyers traded for Eminger were: Slava Voynov, Roman Josi, Justin Schultz, Travis Hamonic & Derek Stepan.


http://thehockeyguys.net/hot-tub-hockey-time-machine-5-philadelphia-flyers-trades-undone/

Eminger had a decent playoffs before the draft so IMHO the Flyers likely though he had turned the corner development wise a bit. That was my thoughts at the time of the trade.

Yes he did. Bruce didn't like him but I think it took an injury (was Schultz hurt in that series?? I believe so) or something for Bruce to put him in by the 3rd game.

 

[4thTierSport]

I can't comment on the older generations of players because I don't know the in-depth history but the current players… Are you ****ing kidding me? Ovie and Sid are generational talents. Ovie by a lot of metrics is one of if not the best goal scorer of all time. Sid's stats creeps into areas that 70-80's players hold. Jagr is 2nd in points all time.

Then you have the Blackhawk players… You can't even say Toews is the best center in his draft class let alone this era. Not even top 5. I think Keith ranks higher amongst his peers, but there is defensible rankings that don't have him in the top 5. I think Kane stacks up the best among the 3 but do you consider him a generational talent? I think there is potential but not there yet.

Great core, but the Hawks have had amazing supporting cast around them. They had to shed players because the supporting players have stepped up and earned more money. The front office, Q and scouting stuff have been great but these three and a lesser extent Crawford get the extra credit.

 

[trick9]

Dale Tallon did a great job building that core. None of them really deserved to be there but they are because of team success. Kane and Keith are atleast somewhat close to that, but i still think there were better, more deserving options than either of those 2. Jonathan Toews is not really even remotely close. I'm not sure he would crack my top-200 list.

 

[BobRouse]

Dale Tallon did a great job building that core. None of them really deserved to be there but they are because of team success. Kane and Keith are atleast somewhat close to that, but i still think there were better, more deserving options than either of those 2. Jonathan Toews is not really even remotely close. I'm not sure he would crack my top-200 list.

Chicago's 1st cup was their most important IMO. It gave those young guys the confidence they needed going forward.

Ironically they got massively LUCKY!

Halak (Goalie on FIRE) took out dominant teams in both the Caps and Pens before running out of gas.

The Flyers would have gotten dismantled by the Pens or the Caps that year and both these teams would have beaten the Hawks.

The Caps and Pens were the two best teams in the league that year but hockey was being hockey.

 

[trick9]

Chicago's 1st cup was their most important IMO. It gave those young guys the confidence they needed going forward.

Ironically they got massively LUCKY!

Halak (Goalie on FIRE) took out dominant teams in both the Caps and Pens before running out of gas.

The Flyers would have gotten dismantled by the Pens or the Caps that year and both these teams would have beaten the Hawks.

The Caps and Pens were the two best teams in the league that year but hockey was being hockey.

I actually think that was their best Cup winning roster by far.

Back then Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa were all elite players. Sharp was really good. Then you had rest of their defensive core (Seabrook, Hjalmarsson). Guys like Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, Brouwer and back then still very effective Dave Bolland. Most of those guys playing on their bottom-6 too.

All those 3 teams were pretty even. I actually think Penguins were the worst of the 3.

 

[AtNightWeFly]

Even as a non-isles fan the situation is sad. They leave a historic arena for greener pastures because they couldn't make money. End up in a basketball arena not fit for a ECHL hockey team that then kicks them out. Now they are going homeless and have no answers. Can't go back, no money to build, can't go to MSG. NHL historic franchise living under the bridge in a box. Sad

I just pictured the Isles players in their unis and pads sitting under the Brooklyn Bridge like "I don't ever want to feeeeeeeel like I did that day.
Take me to the place I loooooove. Take me all the way."

Seriously, what the hell are they supposed to do now??? Someone suggested a 82 road game season.

 

[BobRouse]

I actually think that was their best Cup winning roster by far.

Back then Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa were all elite players. Sharp was really good. Then you had rest of their defensive core (Seabrook, Hjalmarsson). Guys like Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, Brouwer and back then still very effective Dave Bolland. Most of those guys playing on their bottom-6 too.

All those 3 teams were pretty even. I actually think Penguins were the worst of the 3.

Either way they got really lucky playing an overachieving Flyer's team that had a relatively easy path to the SCF thanks to Halak.

Flyer's were down to an AHL goalie and Pronger played every other shift as an older player. They were out of gas by the time they met up with the Hawks.

I really hate Halak. Just happened to play the most amazing hockey of his life out of nowhere. To this day that is still one of the, if not THE, greatest goaltending performances in a playoff series.

 

[Hivemind]

They have two years to find a new home, but that's just about the time it takes to build a new arena, so they have to start building now. Where would they build it?
Relocation is a serious possibility.

The NHL will bend over backwards to keep a NYC market team, especially one with both the history of the Islanders and with the incredibly lucrative TV deal the Islanders have. If it means a bridge year in a tiny Nassau until a new stadium is done, so be it.

Some have even speculated this is the Nets/Barclays ownership (who is trying to sell) getting ahead of potential news regarding the construction of an Islanders stadium, in an attempt to control for any devaluation of the asset they're trying to sell. Again, that's all speculation, but it's been painfully obvious that Barclays and the Islanders were never a true fit. So I wouldn't be surprised if something was already in at least the early stages of motion.

Why would you feel bad for them? They have no respect for us, shutting down their dump of a barn is the best thing the Caps have done in a decade.

Because they're still human beings and hockey fans. Even if they're rivals, I still have empathy towards any die hard sports fan who's going to lose their team. That **** sucks.

Quebec should either hope for expansion or the relocation of Carolina or Florida. As I said, the New York market is way too important to the NHL.

Quebec has more or less been promised a relocation team, rather than an expansion team. At least that's what the rumor mill suggests.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

The NHL will bend over backwards to keep a NYC market team, especially one with both the history of the Islanders and with the incredibly lucrative TV deal the Islanders have. If it means a bridge year in a tiny Nassau until a new stadium is done, so be it.

Some have even speculated this is the Nets/Barclays ownership (who is trying to sell) getting ahead of potential news regarding the construction of an Islanders stadium, in an attempt to control for any devaluation of the asset they're trying to sell. Again, that's all speculation, but it's been painfully obvious that Barclays and the Islanders were never a true fit. So I wouldn't be surprised if something was already in at least the early stages of motion.


Because they're still human beings and hockey fans. Even if they're rivals, I still have empathy towards any die hard sports fan who's going to lose their team. That **** sucks.

Ok fine, you're right and I'm wrong. Relocation sucks and even if I can't stand Isles fans, they're still hockey fans after all.

Apparently they want to build an arena next to the Citi Field, so still close to NYC. It will cost them an arm and a leg, but it's the only viable long term solution if they want to keep their team. I could see Prudential Centre hosting them for a year instead of MSG. It's a lot less busy and it would give a chance to the Devils to get playoff revenue if the Isles were to make it there.