League News: 2016-17 General NHL Fan Talk - Part the Second (News n' Scores n' Stuff)

[Langway]

Lundqvist pulled. Tough year for him so far.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Rangers are going nowhere with Hank playing like that

 

[Calicaps]

Philly down 5-0 to Carolina with only 6 shots on goal with 12 minutes left in the third.

 

[ovikovy817]

Hitch out

 

[BobRouse]

Lundqvist pulled. Tough year for him so far.

I'd never count that guy out. He always has stretches where he looks like he's done yet somehow bounces back.

This year it does seem to have happened more tho I agree. I'm sure he'll turn into a brick wall during the playoffs.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

Blues really botched the Hitchcock/Yeo situation.

 

[BobRouse]

Flyer's observation:

I have a buddy at work who is a huge philly fan and we have discussions about that team all the time.

A couple years ago I was telling him (and he was in agreement) that the Flyer's were in a bit of trouble coming up.

Their forwards were in their prime while their D was in shambles. They started drafting D but I was explaining that by the time their D matured their forwards would be over the hill.

My solution was for them to trade Voracek and Simmonds among others and begin a long rebuild. So that they can get young assets and let the D and forwards grow together.

Fast forward to today...well they didn't exactly do that. They signed Voracek to a huge contract and will probably do the same with Simmonds. They have good young D prospects but no good vets for them to learn from.

They traded for MacDonald, resigned Del Zotto among other less than savory moves. They've made it to the point where they can't really truly contend but they are not going to be bad enough to get a lottery pick. I call this the "Washington Bullets Zone"

Now their core forwards are getting older and the young D they have are years away from percolating. They can't trade most of those forwards now due to their gaudy contracts.

Hextall has done some good things by trading Timonen and Coburn for young assets but he dropped the ball on Voracek and Simmonds IMO

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That Voracek contract is disgusting imo, but the Simmonds one (6/24) is pretty shrewd I'd say.

 

[BobRouse]

That Voracek contract is disgusting imo, but the Simmonds one (6/24) is pretty shrewd I'd say.

Maybe. But my point was that those two (prior to new contract of Voracek) were valuable trade chips!

Voracek would have brought in a STRONG haul to a contender and Simmonds would have as well. They could have easily brought in as much as Coburn did (1st rounder, decent young player, another draft pick) if not much more.

It would have had the dual effect of making the Flyer's suck and drop in the standing thus increasing their odds of someone like McDavid, Eichel, Matthews or Laine)

A lot of organizations try to have it both ways. Look at the Leafs prior to Shanahan and Lou taking over. They were constantly trying to "win now" until they realized that was dumb.

Flyers backed themselves in a corner when they could easily have been a young team on the rise ala Toronto.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

They should have moved Voracek imo. Simmonds is a gem on the cheap. Foolish to get rid of that.

 

[BobRouse]

They should have moved Voracek imo. Simmonds is a gem on the cheap. Foolish to get rid of that.

Here is my reasoning...

Simmonds had value. To a rebuilding team acquiring young assets is priority number 1.

Flyers would not be ready to truly contend for at least 3 or 4 years. AT LEAST. By then Simmonds best years would be in their twilight.

Having Simmonds on the team ensures a few more wins per year I'm sure. Those few wins could be the difference between a generational talent and a decent prospect.

If you are going to truly rebuild its my stance that you go full out. You are going to miss the playoffs with Simmonds or without at that point anyhow.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It's rare teams with multiple high quality players totally sell off. You need players to market, you need core players to mentor and mold a roster.

Besides they could have easily screwed up drafting with those assets gained and be in worse shape overall. Does Simmonds make you a champion today, no, but he's easily a net +, if not close to a model player to have.

What makes you believe the Flyers of all franchises would EVER really burn it to the ground and rebuild like that?

 

[BobRouse]

It's rare teams with multiple high quality players totally sell off. You need players to market, you need core players to mentor and mold a roster.

Besides they could have easily screwed up drafting with those assets gained and be in worse shape overall. Does Simmonds make you a champion today, no, but he's easily a net +, if not close to a model player to have.

Every city is different in the amount of pressure they face.

I lean more towards scorching the earth personally but I can see holding onto a couple guys for marketing purposes. I mean was Giroux not enough?

There definitely is some fortune involved in the draft as well no doubt. The Caps and Pens both did the "scorched earth" method and they got between them 3 generational players (altho the NHL screwed the Caps specifically in the Crosby draft)

.

What makes you believe the Flyers of all franchises would EVER really burn it to the ground and rebuild like that?

The Leafs have proven you can do it. If THEY can then anyone can.

There is more than one way to win at rebuilding. I just prefer mine

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It's easy to say "go scorched earth" when you're a fan with no concern about the team's bottom line.

The Leafs had garbage for a roster. If they had anything close to Voracek, Giroux, Simmonds, it's highly unlikelY IMO that they go full rebuild. Just look at history the last 10 years....how many teams have truly gone scortched earth with a massive sell off of anything valuable at the NHL level? Catching one of those generational guys is a path to success, but you still have to get lucky to do that or you're the Avs or Yotes.

 

[Hivemind]

Up until right before the playoffs last year, the Flyers had a dying owner who desperately wanted to win one more Cup. While Snider certainly distanced himself from the hockey operations when his health deteriorated and they promoted Holmgren/brought in Hextall, it's impossible to say that the presence of Ed Snider wanting that last Cup wasn't over management. You have to view all the moves they made during that time period thru that lens. They had an intense short-term focus for that reason.

 

[BobRouse]

Up until right before the playoffs last year, the Flyers had a dying owner who desperately wanted to win one more Cup. While Snider certainly distanced himself from the hockey operations when his health deteriorated and they promoted Holmgren/brought in Hextall, it's impossible to say that the presence of Ed Snider wanting that last Cup wasn't over management. You have to view all the moves they made during that time period thru that lens. They had an intense short-term focus for that reason.

Good point. I forgot the timeline of Snider passing.

Reality is that this strategy is doomed for failure every time I have seen it. From the Wizards under Abe, The Raiders under Davis etc.

But its easy for me to say. If I owned a team and was on my deathbed I'd probably try the same to go out in a blaze of glory. Its a tough spot for the fans of the organization however.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Absolutely. If your owner isn't on board...

 

[g00n]

our pal Rene Bourque just got freight trained in LA and left the game early in the 1st

 

[Stewie G]

Couldn't have happened to a better guy.

 

[RandyHolt]

I now like that McNabb kid

 

[BobRouse]

I now like that McNabb kid

Nah...he doesn't know the playbook and throws up in huddles. He needed to be taken out of the 2 minute offense in lieu of Sexy Rexy

 

[RandyHolt]

Nah...he doesn't know the playbook and throws up in huddles. He needed to be taken out of the 2 minute offense in lieu of Sexy Rexy

I almost called him Donovan McNabb, but figured that ship has sailed. I miss facing Philly and being able to count on him throwing several ground balls on 3rd down. (FYI - NFL talk for our out of town cap fans)

 

[Hivemind]

Brayden McNabb has as much of a dirtbag history as Rene Bourque. He sucks just the same.

 

[BobRouse]

Hockey talking heads trending:

JR - I loved him as a player in his younger years but man is he a gibberish spouting knuckle head! half the stuff he says contradicts the other half of the stuff he says and he rarely makes in depth salient analysis. I cringe when he is on.

Brian Lawton - This guy was awkward at first but has settled in. He's excellent and articulate and I like his demeanor. Maybe he wasn't the best GM and he definitely was one of the worst busts as a #1 overall pick but he's a knowledgable analyst!

Milbury and Jones are ok. I actually like them.

Scott Gomez is cringeworthy.

Dave Reid is in the Roenick class of cliché spouting JR Knuckle head.

They miss Stevens in the studio tho he was a bit unpolished.

 

[Hivemind]

Roenick and Milbury are neck-and-neck for being the worst analysts in all of sports. Each time I think I loathe one of them more, the other one appears on TV and reminds me why he is terrible as well. I'd rather listen to a 60 minute Pierre monologue about minor junior hockey is Nova Scotia than a single segment from either of them.