Proposal: Zibanejad to the Avs

[WeRa]

The funniest thing about this whackadoodle post is that Barrie would be tied for the leading scorer on the Rangers. Love it.

Yes.. it is possible. It would be nice. But a year ago there was the same situation with Shattenkirk. He is the same level in PPG as Tyson Barrie is.. and he isn't as good as he was in SJS. Why? IMO he don't plays with old teammates ... and he plays in NY.

 

[flyfysher]

"Patience" is a great thing until you end up the Blues.

The Avs are not the Blues. They haven't even fully assembled their future team. They don't even have Makar, Kaut, Timmons or Meloche on the team yet and you're ready to start trading assets to win the SC so as to take advantage of the window. We just have a different POV as to timing.

 

[Patagonia]

"Patience" is a great thing until you end up the Blues.

Blues only missed the playoffs on the last day against the AVs. They still have a good team, and have similar problems with poor secondary scoring. The difference is inconsistent Goalies. STL have some very good prospects and their future is actually very bright.

However, they signed a bunch of UFAs and brought in ROR which changed the dynamics of the team. A very model we're suggesting the AVs avoid and stay the course in elevating their prospects.

 

[cgf]

The Avs are not the Blues. They haven't even fully assembled their future team. They don't even have Makar, Kaut, Timmons or Meloche on the team yet and you're ready to start trading assets to win the SC so as to take advantage of the window. We just have a different POV as to timing.

The timeline should be driven by our elite talent, not the supporting cast. Next year will be MacK’s age 24 season and he’ll only have 3 years left before his salary doubles. That should drive our timeline, not waiting to see if Kerfoot’s going to grow 3 inches & pack on 20 pounds.

Plus those aren’t good examples of pieces we’d have to push our timeline back for: Makar will be on the team this season and Kaut will benext season; with Meloche or Timmins being the top blueline call-up. Those pieces all fit the MacKinnon-timeline. It’s the kids we’ll be drafting that may not line up with our timeline well enough for our window to ever actually open if we just sit tight & wait.

 

[cgf]

Blues only missed the playoffs on the last day against the AVs. They still have a good team, and have similar problems with poor secondary scoring. The difference is inconsistent Goalies. STL have some very good prospects and their future is actually very bright.

However, they signed a bunch of UFAs and brought in ROR which changed the dynamics of the team. A very model we're suggesting the AVs avoid and stay the course in elevating their prospects.

That’s my point. They were supposed to be a team on the rise after the EJ trade, with tons of youth & a bright future. Yet at the end of the decade they’ve accomplished nothing and are fighting for a playoff spot with a team coming off a historically bad season on the final day of the season.

That’s the nightmare

 

[flyfysher]

That’s my point. They were supposed to be a team on the rise after the EJ trade, with tons of youth & a bright future. Yet at the end of the decade they’ve accomplished nothing and are fighting for a playoff spot with a team coming off a historically bad season on the final day of the season.

That’s the nightmare

I'm well aware of your argument but the Blues were in a different position than the Avs are now. That's my point. This team isn't finished rebuilding yet. Sakic is far more deliberate and has repeatedly stated that he is going with youth.

Aren't you in the least bit curious to want to at least get a sense of what you have in Compher, Kerfoot and Jost before being ready to surrender one of the two 1st round picks plus?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

This is the evaluation season for kerfoot and compher. Both kerfoot and compher are due their first new contract, it is already a decision point for those two (not saying they can't get better, but not exponentially better after this season). With how well Kerfoot is playing right now at C, and how well Compher has looked, we may have addressed our 2ndary scoring internally, which actually gives us even more reason to get another piece on the 2nd line to complete the set. Not that we have to trade our first round pick for that piece though, I rather get Stone for just cap space this summer.

Jost will have another year since he has one more year on the ELC.

 

[flyfysher]

This is the evaluation season for kerfoot and compher. Both kerfoot and compher are due their first new contract, it is already a decision point for those two (not saying they can't get better, but not exponentially better after this season). With how well Kerfoot is playing right now at C, and how well Compher has looked, we may have addressed our 2ndary scoring internally, which actually gives us even more reason to get another piece on the 2nd line to complete the set. Not that we have to trade our first round pick for that piece though, I rather get Stone for just cap space this summer.

Jost will have another year since he has one more year on the ELC.

This made a lot more sense to me than trading for Zibs now. The Avs have a lot of flexibility under the cap. If they can keep their draft picks then all the better. I'd rather the Avs used them than some other team. Still, Jost should be given ice time. It's way early in the season and I'm sure we'll see a lot more player development before season's end.

 

[koyvoo]

Oof

 

[cgf]

I'm well aware of your argument but the Blues were in a different position than the Avs are now. That's my point. This team isn't finished rebuilding yet. Sakic is far more deliberate and has repeatedly stated that he is going with youth.

Aren't you in the least bit curious to want to at least get a sense of what you have in Compher, Kerfoot and Jost before being ready to surrender one of the two 1st round picks plus?

Of course we’re finished rebuilding. You’re no longer rebuilding if you’re making the playoffs in consecutive seasons, by definition. We’re still integrating & developing youth, but that doesn’t mean we’re rebuilding and we should ignore opportunities to win now as well as in the future. The Blackhawks were doing that throughout their dynasty but that doesn’t mean that they were rebuilding while winning their cups.

Of course I am, that’s why I want to see what Jost & Jimmothy/Kaut could do with a 1b-caliber guy centering them, while letting Kamenev play with Kerfoot & Jimmothy/Kaut! I like our kids, but I also want to put them in positions to succeed; not ask them to do things that are beyond them.

None of the higher- education-line kids are championship caliber 2Cs and the things holding them back won’t be fixed by time. So if the opportunity to get that 1b C to anchor that 2nd line...who fits our core’s age range...that we are missing, presents itself this summer, I don’t see any reason not to take advantage. If Stone will come to Colorado as well then doubley-cool; that’s a foster that could really make noise.

Landy - MacK - Mikko
Jost - Zibanejad - Stone
Calvert - Soda - Compher
Kerfoot - Kamenev - Kaut
Greer / Shvyry / OTT 1st

Girard - EJ
Zads - Barrie
Cole - Makar
Meloche

Grubauer
Francouz

 

[tomobson]

Zib's great contract is going to make him tough to pry from the Rangers. This is a deal, that if made, will probably anger a lot of AV fans around here, but could be necessary to start seriously competing.

 

[Patagonia]

Zib's great contract is going to make him tough to pry from the Rangers. This is a deal, that if made, will probably anger a lot of AV fans around here, but could be necessary to start seriously competing.

I realistically don't believe a deal can be made for Zibby. Both teams will just simply deal for other players. AVs future does look bright indeed and removed Barrie after he is traded which would further deepen the prospect pool.

Landy - MacK - Rants
Jost - Kerfoot - Kaut
Calvert - Soda - Compher
AVs 1st - Kamenev - OTT 1st

Girard - EJ
Zads - Makar
Cole - Timmins/Meloche

Grubauer
Francouz

 

[flyfysher]

Of course we’re finished rebuilding. You’re no longer rebuilding if you’re making the playoffs in consecutive seasons, by definition. We’re still integrating & developing youth, but that doesn’t mean we’re rebuilding and we should ignore opportunities to win now as well as in the future. The Blackhawks were doing that throughout their dynasty but that doesn’t mean that they were rebuilding while winning their cups.

Of course I am, that’s why I want to see what Jost & Jimmothy/Kaut could do with a 1b-caliber guy centering them, while letting Kamenev play with Kerfoot & Jimmothy/Kaut! I like our kids, but I also want to put them in positions to succeed; not ask them to do things that are beyond them.

None of the higher- education-line kids are championship caliber 2Cs and the things holding them back won’t be fixed by time. So if the opportunity to get that 1b C to anchor that 2nd line...who fits our core’s age range...that we are missing, presents itself this summer, I don’t see any reason not to take advantage. If Stone will come to Colorado as well then doubley-cool; that’s a foster that could really make noise.

Landy - MacK - Mikko
Jost - Zibanejad - Stone
Calvert - Soda - Compher
Kerfoot - Kamenev - Kaut
Greer / Shvyry / OTT 1st

Girard - EJ
Zads - Barrie
Cole - Makar
Meloche

Grubauer
Francouz

Uh, in case you hadn't noticed, Rangers fans are proposing to swap OTT 1st for Zibs. According to them, he's definitely worth it. If that pick ends up being Hughes or Kakko, you'll never live that down. And they want us to add. I think some Ranger fan suggested Makar. So who's going to fill those holes? That's not a finished rebuild. The Avs will re-sign MacKinnon so it's not like he's going anywhere for a long time.

 

[cgf]

Uh, in case you hadn't noticed, Rangers fans are proposing to swap OTT 1st for Zibs. According to them, he's definitely worth it. If that pick ends up being Hughes or Kappo, you'll never live that down. And they want us to add. I think some Ranger fan suggested Makar. So who's going to fill those holes? That's not a finished rebuild. The Avs will re-sign MacKinnon so it's not like he's going anywhere for a long time.

And in case you hadn’t noticed I’ve repeatedly said that the avs should only consider moving the pick once they know it won’t be top 3 or 4. And should instead look to use Timmins, Kerf/Bowers/Kaut & our own pick as the basis of a trade instead...a price actually higher than what Henchy has suggested trading for Zibby would actually cost on our board.

If that means no trade is possible, then so be it. Nowhere am I saying Joe should give up the farm to force something. Only that we need to do something before next season starts, and getting the ball rolling now would be a good idea...especially since I don’t share patagonia’s fetish for trading away Barrie...and if something materializes in season, all the better.


One NYR fan, who got scolded for it by other NYR fans, mentioning Makar doesn’t mean anything or open another hole. Trading futures for Zibby closes our holes, it doesn’t open a new one. Not that these “holes” are keeping us from playoff contention since MacK n Mikko broke out; so we wouldn’t still be rebuilding either way


And of course MacK will be re-signed; it will just be much harder to build a squad around him when we’ll be paying Mikko 9-11M, MacK 12M+ and Landy 7-8M. Which is why it’s important we capitalize while we can & win a cup before we have to sell off pieces like kerfoot for cap space.

 

[Ivan13]

The shouldn't move that 1st in any scenario unless the other team is getting gutted. They will need cheap, high end, expansion draft exempt talent real soon. And Mika Zibanejad is not the guy to put us over the top either way.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Nothing to see here folks, OTT 1st going nowhere, AVS not ready for Ziba, NYR not ready for life without him, both teams are in a rebuild so I could see a young roster player swap for positional needs, dat all

 

[flyfysher]

And in case you hadn’t noticed I’ve repeatedly said that the avs should only consider moving the pick once they know it won’t be top 3 or 4. And should instead look to use Timmins, Kerf/Bowers/Kaut & our own pick as the basis of a trade instead...a price actually higher than what Henchy has suggested trading for Zibby would actually cost on our board.

If that means no trade is possible, then so be it. Nowhere am I saying Joe should give up the farm to force something. Only that we need to do something before next season starts, and getting the ball rolling now would be a good idea...especially since I don’t share patagonia’s fetish for trading away Barrie...and if something materializes in season, all the better.


One NYR fan, who got scolded for it by other NYR fans, mentioning Makar doesn’t mean anything or open another hole. Trading futures for Zibby closes our holes, it doesn’t open a new one. Not that these “holes” are keeping us from playoff contention since MacK n Mikko broke out; so we wouldn’t still be rebuilding either way


And of course MacK will be re-signed; it will just be much harder to build a squad around him when we’ll be paying Mikko 9-11M, MacK 12M+ and Landy 7-8M. Which is why it’s important we capitalize while we can & win a cup before we have to sell off pieces like kerfoot for cap space.

Well this is a useless exercise because Rags fans think Zibs is worth OTT 1st +. He's not. I don't see how this trade goes forward.

 

[flyfysher]

The shouldn't move that 1st in any scenario unless the other team is getting gutted. They will need cheap, high end, expansion draft exempt talent real soon. And Mika Zibanejad is not the guy to put us over the top either way.

Good point.

 

[cgf]

The shouldn't move that 1st in any scenario unless the other team is getting gutted. They will need cheap, high end, expansion draft exempt talent real soon. And Mika Zibanejad is not the guy to put us over the top either way.

Even if it's 6th overall, and thus unlikely to be a difference maker until its draft+3 year? We need draft exempt talent, but Seattle will only be able to pick 1 guy. So that doesn't drive my thinking as much as our cap window.

Well this is a useless exercise because Rags fans think Zibs is worth OTT 1st +. He's not. I don't see how this trade goes forward.

Depends on where that pick lands. He is a quality 1bC with a good two-way game, who fits into our core's age range & is signed to a good price for 3 more years. If we can't get Hughes, Kakko, Podkolzin or Dach/Cozens with that pick, then adding Timmins to it for him could well be worth it for both sides.

And what fans want doesn't matter, it's what FOs want. Gorton may well be happy to get three A (but not bluechip) futures like 15-20th pick + Timmins + Bowers / Kerfoot / Kaut for Zibby at the draft. Only way for Sakic to find that out is to make some calls

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I wouldn't make any calls if I were Joe. We can get way more value from a team doing the selling at the deadline and making the calls. We do not have to be proactive this season.

 

[The S5]

Well this is a useless exercise because Rags fans think Zibs is worth OTT 1st +. He's not. I don't see how this trade goes forward.

Unless you are talking about a top 3-4 pick, first rounders tend to get over valued.

 

[cgf]

I wouldn't make any calls if I were Joe. We can get way more value from a team doing the selling at the deadline and making the calls. We do not have to be proactive this season.

I'm more concerned with getting a 1b C than getting a 1b C at a great value. We have more than enough asset wealth to overpay a bit for the right guy & still have plenty of picks/prospects left over with which to continue building up our pipeline of young talent.

 

[flyfysher]

Unless you are talking about a top 3-4 pick, first rounders tend to get over valued.

I agree. However, this is a great draft year in terms of prospects and the Avs potentially have a realistic opportunity to draft a franchise level player in Hughes or Kakko. Zibs is a worthy player but there's no reason for Sakic to make a move now.

 

[Justin17]

Uh, in case you hadn't noticed, Rangers fans are proposing to swap OTT 1st for Zibs. According to them, he's definitely worth it. If that pick ends up being Hughes or Kakko, you'll never live that down. And they want us to add. I think some Ranger fan suggested Makar. So who's going to fill those holes? That's not a finished rebuild. The Avs will re-sign MacKinnon so it's not like he's going anywhere for a long time.

If the pick isn’t in the top 10 it could be bad for the Rangers. Both teams are better off waiting till the draft.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I’ve said before if the move isn’t there right now then you do my make it right now...but that doesn’t mean Joe shouldn’t be talking to other GMs about potential moves for the future right now. A Zibby or ROR caliber guy should move over the summer and we’re in prime position to win that sweepstakes; so let Joe start laying the groundwork for that trade.


And you’re hyperbolizing massively. Moving two prospects and a pick, at most one of the young NHLers (Kerf) in place of one of the prospect; is in no way giving up on the youth. I think my craziest Drae proposal only ever moved 2 NHLers (Kerf & Barrie). I’m not saying trade every assets for win now pieces. I’m saying trade 2 or 3 premium futures for that 1 missing piece that fits our young core age- & timeline wise.



I think that's fair, which is why I think this summer is "the most reasonable" timeline. I just think we could rip that window open this year if the right aggressive trade materializes. If it doesn't then we shouldn't force anything and whittle away our arsenal on rentals that don't solve anything. But I'd hope Joe is testing the waters, even if just to lay the groundwork for a summertime trade when we will have that information that is currently still up in the air. So that if something that makes sense in the summer, could be done now, we don't squander our chance to open that window early.

Young teams often actually arrive 1 year before they are "supposed to arrive". So when a team is as asset-/future-rich as ours & has the elite talent to contend, I think it's wiser to be aggressive in filling its final hole, rather than to wait around for the hole to solve itself. I'm just terrified of ending up having wasted our current strong future outlook like St. Louis did after they ascended post-EJ-trade. If a day comes where our top line is consuming almost 30M of the cap...and that day could very well be coming...I sure hope we've got at least 1 new banner in the rafters before then.

I think we're saying the same things, just in different ways. I completely agree that Sakic should be exploring every potential option to make the team better, but that's pretty much the baseline expectation of his job as GM. I'm pretty sure he's already got guys targeted, I just don't think the price is going to be right on the guys we'd actually want. We're still early in the building part of the rebuild, being terrified of screwing it up is completely normal. But fear is a bad reason to make a hockey trade.

And, we have 5 years of Mack at 6.3m, including this one, and 3 with Landy also being cheap. We should make at least one really good run (2020-21) before we're even over $25m, and will still have some really talented youngsters still finding their NHL games to fill in the bottom 6 as current youngsters move up/out of the lineup. That's how you build through the draft, you never stop adding to your prospect pool. There will always be injuries, there will always be guys who want to explore free agency or price themselves out of town, you need a steady supply of good young talent to feed the machine, so you aren't forced to scrape the bottom of the UFA barrel to fill out your team. With the AHL team now up in Loveland, playing essentially the same style, and our scouting staff being much improved (thus far), I think we're set up to be contenders for a long time to come, we just need to let the systems that have been put in place work.