Lil Sebastian Cossa
Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
- Jul 6, 2012
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Rumor: Zetterberg’s contract to Tampa
- Thread starter Ricelund
- Start date
good question and I don’t have an answer. However, if we look at this practically only 8 teams actually have the cap space to pull it off while absorbing the entirety of TJs contract.
Doing a deeper dive, we can probably eliminate the panthers and senators from the mix due to obvious budgetary concerns.
Chicago has the space but it would leave them with literally zero cap space and a 21 man roster. They don’t have a true number 1 goalie or reserve skaters so I question whether they’re a legitimate option as well. They’d really have to thread the needle to pull it off.
Functionally, this leaves Columbus, Detroit, Nashville, LA and NJ.
NJ turned a small profit. Columbus lost 10 million last year; Nashville lost 13 Million and still need to fill out their roster. In the Covid world with lower revenues are these legitimate options without tampa retaining money/getting a contract back? Hard to say without speculation but it’s reasonable to question their interest.
All of this together means there are 3 to 5 realistic landing spots for TJ.
Detroit, LA and NJ are in a rebuild so I don’t see any of them undercutting the other 2 in terms of value here. They will all have a similar outlook that TJ doesn’t change their outlook so why take on the cap if Tampa doesn’t make it worth their while. LA and NJ are much deeper at Center as well so its possible they are even less interested than detroit.
Ultimately tampa has very few options that could and would consider absorbing TJ so I’m of the belief that we should dig In for significant value and walk away if they aren’t willing to pay up.
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FabricDetails
HF still in need of automated text analytics
- Mar 30, 2009
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Nice. Maybe some fans from the Lightning, Kings and Devils forums will chime in one day.
ok. My bad. Seems you do understand the math and process.
So how much cap space does this provide TB then? TJ’s 5 plus Z’s 6.08? Honest question. Isn’t it as simple as that?
we both know that there’s some opening day paper transactions to get max relief.
Could they not sign Cirelli and enough 900k roster spots to get them right to 81.5 plus Z’s 6.08 then Ltir Z and use that space on Cernak?
ricky0034
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2010
- 15,126
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how exactly does adding 6m cap hit to allow them to go 6m over the cap even do anything?
adding a 6m contract so you can put it on LTIR and use that 6m on something else sounds like a meaningless extra step to me when you could just....use that 6m on something else instead
Lil Sebastian Cossa
Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
- Jul 6, 2012
- 11,436
- 7,446
The LTIR Question Thread
Hmmm, after looking at this, I may have misunderstood. Perhaps that would be all they'd need to do.
Basically, Tampa, if they took Zetterberg's contract for LTIR and traded away only Johnson as an active skater. Let's give them Cernak and Cirelli at 1.5M a piece. Maybe rosy, but let's do it for a thought experiment.
So, 19 active skaters, cap hit of 84.504.
They call up four waiver eligible kids to ride the bus to get themselves to roughly 87.304 (assuming league min 700k). That's 23 active skaters. (Or they could choose to do three guys and not have to worry about the dollars so much) They put Zetterberg on LTIR the day prior to the season starting. Because they're at 87.304 and Zetterberg's contract is 6.083 AAV, they squeeze every single ounce of juice out of the contract. They've got no cap flexibility and it requires RFA kids signing for pennies. Maybe they can do some real wrangling.
Hmmm, after looking at this, I may have misunderstood. Perhaps that would be all they'd need to do.
Basically, Tampa, if they took Zetterberg's contract for LTIR and traded away only Johnson as an active skater. Let's give them Cernak and Cirelli at 1.5M a piece. Maybe rosy, but let's do it for a thought experiment.
So, 19 active skaters, cap hit of 84.504.
They call up four waiver eligible kids to ride the bus to get themselves to roughly 87.304 (assuming league min 700k). That's 23 active skaters. (Or they could choose to do three guys and not have to worry about the dollars so much) They put Zetterberg on LTIR the day prior to the season starting. Because they're at 87.304 and Zetterberg's contract is 6.083 AAV, they squeeze every single ounce of juice out of the contract. They've got no cap flexibility and it requires RFA kids signing for pennies. Maybe they can do some real wrangling.
Cap friendly shows them with 3.1 space after TJ is gone.
Step 1. Sign a younging 900k. Sign Cirelli for 2.2. Capped out. 20 man roster.
Step 2. Put Z ltir active first day creating 6.08 space.
Step 3. Sign Cernak 4.2. Sign 2 ypungings 900k each. Roster 23.
No? If no, why not?
Step 1. Sign a younging 900k. Sign Cirelli for 2.2. Capped out. 20 man roster.
Step 2. Put Z ltir active first day creating 6.08 space.
Step 3. Sign Cernak 4.2. Sign 2 ypungings 900k each. Roster 23.
No? If no, why not?
I think I have this right...
in the offseason you can go 10% over the cap. We do the trade. It actually makes TBs cap number higher (1.08) for the off season. But as cap limit is 10% over cap it doesn’t matter. TB can make some signings. (Cirelli and one 900k player in my example posted to Sweeney)
they want to get as close to 87.58 (81.5 plus 6.08) as possible for season opening day. They then slide Z to season opening LTIR creating that space. (6.08)
Can that created space be used on multiple players or just one? I don’t know. Either way it’s plenty of room to sign Cernak.
Shaman464
No u
Not taking back any salary is better than taking salary that they have to bury. It’s not hard.
Obviously it is hard, for some.
Shaman, I tried to explain it. Did you not read it? Just want to debate about or disagree about something you don’t understand?
There are 2 elements at play. 1. Cap hit 2. Salary.
I’m assuming you mean cap hit. But that’s odd because you said salary.
regarding salary then you’re right, it’s better to pay less money. That’s not hard to follow. But who cares about the salary. We are shedding 1 million in salary and taking on either 19 or 20.
Im pretty sure the conversation is cap hit / space.
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Shaman464
No u
Either way Tampa is better served to not take back any hit or salary. And Detroit isn’t paying Zs salary and is not near the cap ceiling so they don’t need to worry about either. Sending Z makes no sense and waters down the trade and makes it needlessly complicated.
Gniwder
Registered User
Do trade rumors mean anything when you're sitting on a NTC and $20M guaranteed money? Plus he'll be 34 when the contract is over, it's not like he's going for a big payday when this contract is over. If he's going to agree to a trade, I think it'll be Seattle. That's if he wants to be a star in his home state. (Pure speculation)
Seattle will have the entire cap to play with and their season tickets sold out. I see a big deal between Seattle and Tampa. Simply because Seattle will need scorers, so they won't be asking for as much to take on the contracts. In the meantime, they put Stamkos on LTIR for 2/3 the season. Otherwise I think Bris would have made a deal by now.
As for the Wings, they don't need TJ, and Chris isn't spending money this season. If Tampa does a big trade this offseason, it won't be with the WIngs... which is why I'm not terribly excited.
LeighDx59
Registered User
Honestly, its a long shot, but if were acquiring anyone from Tampa, why not go for Cirelli? They cant afford him with moving out a decent chunk of salary, there's no NTC/NMC attached to him. Trade Zetterberg, and a pick/decent prospect for him if Yzerman can make it happen. I know there's a few more teams who could make a move, but honestly, we shouldnt go after Johnson at all.
The big problem is, he can't.
Tampa isn't going to trade him. They have way better options.
Lil Sebastian Cossa
Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
- Jul 6, 2012
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It's not about us going after f***ing anything. Tampa is seeking Detroit out to make this trade, not the other way around.
If you're trading to peel away Cirelli, that's a whole different deal. Zetterberg's contract would never be moved for that, because that would be pointless for Tampa. They're gonna dick around in the LTIR waters so they can play games and keep Cernak and Cirelli on something other than bargain basement deals which will piss those two off.
It's not a longshot for us to peel away Cirelli, it's a "Not gonna f***ing happen"... especially if you're talking of including Zetterberg's contract.
LeighDx59
Registered User
Thats why I said long shot, I dont see them moving him but if it gets to the point where they might potentially have to do something to be cap compliant, especially if they aren't able to move anyone else, itd be worth kicking the tires.
Completely forgot Z is only included for cap reasons with Johnson, didn't even think of that. Like I said, itd be a longshot, but if were making any deal with Tampa, I would rather them try to do that than take Johnson, if not then I cant say there's a deal I would really wanna see made with them
Lil Sebastian Cossa
Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
- Jul 6, 2012
- 11,436
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Yeah, they kind of do. Guys have said previously how they don't like being at the center of speculation like that, not knowing where they'll end up. And Johnson wants to play a big role. He used to do so and he wants to continue to do so, but he's rapidly falling down Tampa's depth chart as better and younger players are brought in.
There is already smoke in the news about him being cool about being traded to Detroit. Knowing it is part of the business and it is the guy who drafted/signed him who he had a good relationship with that is making the move.
And you can't just put guys on LTIR. Guys like Zetterberg? His back is f***ed. Sure, it's a bullshit workaround that the big market teams pushed through... but for Stamkos? You can't just toss him on LTIR because you feel like it. I think he may go on it too because core injuries are potentially weird... but f*** no you can't keep him on LTIR for 2/3rds of the season. You can't delay a guy's recovery that long... and if I'm Tampa? I trade Yanni Gourde for a pack of gum to be able to re-activate Stamkos if he's ready to go. I make whatever move I have to if it gets me healthy Stamkos on the roster sooner.
Like everything you're saying flies in the face of current reporting, of quotes from the players involved and players in general, and just straight up ignores the actual rules of LTIR.
What gives you the indication that Chris isn't spending money? Because the Wings didn't go balls deep into signing Krug or toss an offer at Pietrangelo? Because they signed guys like Bobby Ryan and Namestnikov for low risk, low dollar deals? There isn't actually an indication that Detroit isn't going to spend money. There is an indication that they're not going to spend money STUPIDLY. And no matter what you believe, the Abby buyout was for the roster space and allow improvement from a better player taking his place, not the total of what, 3 million they save overall by buying him out instead of having him play.
I think Tampa's hold is because they want to have all options at their disposal in talking to Cernak/Cirelli (in case they want to go long term for cheap) and IF, IF, Stamkos isn't ready by the start of the season, they retain the depth and can maybe still do their cap cleanup then. Or maybe they're wary about what's happening with the start of the season and don't want to commit to a course of action before it is 100% finalized.
Shaman464
No u
None. Sending cap back means there's less value for Tampa meaning less value coming back to Detroit. Detroit is no where near the cap ceiling. They aren't paying Z's salary anyway. Its actually a negative value, as it means Tampa can send less back because they aren't getting the full benefit of a complete discharge of the cap hit. Remember, LITR doesn't make salaries magically go away, they still would need to be within 10% of the ceiling to be compliant on day one.
Shaman464
No u
So what? Having someone on the LTIR doesn't magically give you extra cap space. It gives you the ability to use the cap space that originally was dedicated for their contract for other players. The part he left out was that Toronto would need to send a player back in return. If they are at the cap ceiling taking on Z on its own wouldn't do anything except eat in to the 10% they can be over by at the beginning of the season. They would need to send back a player with a substantial cap hit and likely a prospect/pick to entice a team to take the high cap hit player.
The issue here seems to be you're double counting the cap relief.
I feel like in these scenarios the return is never as good as Wings fans think it will be and it’ll be more than Tampa fans think they have to give up.
Shaman464
No u
Welcome to HFBoards. Where all your team players are Gretzky and all the other team's players are beer leaguers.
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