Player Discussion Zemgus Girgensons

[CrookedCrook]

I spent an unhealthy amount of time watching Girgs individual movements, positioning, decisions on the ice, etc., in his rookie and sophomore seasons.

A lot of people on these boards got carried away by his offensive production last year, when his shooting efficiency was significantly above average combined with a lot of ice time and skilled linemates, and a lot of people seemed to form their expectations based exclusively on that (as well as projecting his future point production based on the 14/15 season, while adding a bunch of point on top of it due to 'future growth'). I don't think that made a lot of sense.

Girgs usage was obviously going to change with a bunch of talented players joining the Sabres. Whenever he's played on the 3rd line (under both Rolston or Nolan, or Bylsma now), he hasn't been stellar offensively at all. Now it's been exacerbated by his extremely low shooting % (3% before the game vs. DET), but that is bound to normalize in the long term.

Zemgus is a good two-way defensive forward. He can play as a shutdown center, he can chip in on the 2nd line if there's a need for that. He can play on the PK/PP. But he's never going to be an elite forward or a playmaking center, who's going to rack up 60, 70 or 80 points per season. He's probably going to be a 30 or 40 point guy.

I also don't see Girgs progressing a lot. Honestly, it doesn't look like he's improved too much over the last couple of years. He has the same little shortcomings and faults he had in his rookie season (weak on his skates, falls down a lot; he tries to throw a lot of hits, but too often he ends up barely bumping into guys without speed and ends up losing position himself, meaning he's going to be late on the backcheck when that happens; sometimes he gets lost in the defensive zone, particularly when they're hemmed in their own end for a while; he also doesn't excel at making the first pass and getting out of the defensive zone - often you'll see him with his head down and looking at the puck instead of looking for options and passing lanes, etc.).

Bolded is spot on. I also isolate him when I do stay late to watch the Buffalo games, sometimes it is so frustrating to watch his bad balance. Plus he doesn't have a good shot and from the interviews he doesn't seem like the brightest guy.
There are many positives thought. He is great at his current role as in he doesn't allow goals to be scored against him. Neither team scores goals when he is on ice.
Hoping for a jump in production, maybe now he will see a bit more PP time in 2nd unit.
I agree that his point production should be in 30-40 point range with maybe a career year close to 50 points when everyone will click together.
Either way, there are still plenty of passengers on this team but Girgs is not one.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

I spent an unhealthy amount of time watching Girgs individual movements, positioning, decisions on the ice, etc., in his rookie and sophomore seasons.

A lot of people on these boards got carried away by his offensive production last year, when his shooting efficiency was significantly above average combined with a lot of ice time and skilled linemates, and a lot of people seemed to form their expectations based exclusively on that (as well as projecting his future point production based on the 14/15 season, while adding a bunch of point on top of it due to 'future growth'). I don't think that made a lot of sense.

Girgs usage was obviously going to change with a bunch of talented players joining the Sabres. Whenever he's played on the 3rd line (under both Rolston or Nolan, or Bylsma now), he hasn't been stellar offensively at all. Now it's been exacerbated by his extremely low shooting % (3% before the game vs. DET), but that is bound to normalize in the long term.

Zemgus is a good two-way defensive forward. He can play as a shutdown center, he can chip in on the 2nd line if there's a need for that. He can play on the PK/PP. But he's never going to be an elite forward or a playmaking center, who's going to rack up 60, 70 or 80 points per season. He's probably going to be a 30 or 40 point guy.

I also don't see Girgs progressing a lot. Honestly, it doesn't look like he's improved too much over the last couple of years. He has the same little shortcomings and faults he had in his rookie season (weak on his skates, falls down a lot; he tries to throw a lot of hits, but too often he ends up barely bumping into guys without speed and ends up losing position himself, meaning he's going to be late on the backcheck when that happens; sometimes he gets lost in the defensive zone, particularly when they're hemmed in their own end for a while; he also doesn't excel at making the first pass and getting out of the defensive zone - often you'll see him with his head down and looking at the puck instead of looking for options and passing lanes, etc.).

you know he has only played two full seasons in the NHL? Last year he only played 21 games and was injured most of the season. So not sure what you are talking about.

 

[BCS]

Last year he only played 21 games and was injured most of the season. .

He played 61 games.

 

[haseoke39]

you know he has only played two full seasons in the NHL? Last year he only played 21 games and was injured most of the season. So not sure what you are talking about.

....are you a Sabres fan?

 

[CatsforReinhart]

....are you a Sabres fan?

Are you a sabres fan?

Should we bring up some posts where you mispoke or sound like you are clueless cause there are many.

 

[couture23]

Are you a sabres fan?

Should we bring up some posts where you mispoke or sound like you are clueless cause there are many.

You literally just said he played 21 games last year.

 

[haseoke39]

Are you a sabres fan?

Should we bring up some posts where you mispoke or sound like you are clueless cause there are many.

He was our #1C last year. How do you just forget most of his season? He was in the All-Star game. Joshjull started threads about him being the next Bergeron. He was like, one of three guys worth watching all last year. He's probably 50% of the 2014-15 highlight reel.

 

[Jame]

I spent an unhealthy amount of time watching Girgs individual movements, positioning, decisions on the ice, etc., in his rookie and sophomore seasons.

A lot of people on these boards got carried away by his offensive production last year, when his shooting efficiency was significantly above average combined with a lot of ice time and skilled linemates, and a lot of people seemed to form their expectations based exclusively on that (as well as projecting his future point production based on the 14/15 season, while adding a bunch of point on top of it due to 'future growth'). I don't think that made a lot of sense.

Girgs usage was obviously going to change with a bunch of talented players joining the Sabres. Whenever he's played on the 3rd line (under both Rolston or Nolan, or Bylsma now), he hasn't been stellar offensively at all. Now it's been exacerbated by his extremely low shooting % (3% before the game vs. DET), but that is bound to normalize in the long term.

Zemgus is a good two-way defensive forward. He can play as a shutdown center, he can chip in on the 2nd line if there's a need for that. He can play on the PK/PP. But he's never going to be an elite forward or a playmaking center, who's going to rack up 60, 70 or 80 points per season. He's probably going to be a 30 or 40 point guy.

I also don't see Girgs progressing a lot. Honestly, it doesn't look like he's improved too much over the last couple of years. He has the same little shortcomings and faults he had in his rookie season (weak on his skates, falls down a lot; he tries to throw a lot of hits, but too often he ends up barely bumping into guys without speed and ends up losing position himself, meaning he's going to be late on the backcheck when that happens; sometimes he gets lost in the defensive zone, particularly when they're hemmed in their own end for a while; he also doesn't excel at making the first pass and getting out of the defensive zone - often you'll see him with his head down and looking at the puck instead of looking for options and passing lanes, etc.).

I agree with most of this post, but the label you give him in the first bolded... is in conflict with some of the accurate observations in the 2nd bolded.

 

[LaxSabre]

Girgensons On Turning Down All-Star Game - "Something I don't want to repeat this year" - Mike Harrington - BuffaloNews.com - Thursday, November 3.

Thanks, Latvia. And Buffalo, too. But no thanks.

That was the message Zemgus Girgensons tweeted yesterday, telling folks in his homeland not to vote for him for this year's All-Star Game.

Zemgus Girgensons @zemgus94 - Visu cieņu faniem, bet lūdzu šogad nebalsot par mani zvaigžņu spēlē! Šādas lietas ir jānopelna! - 11:58 AM - 2 Dec 2015.

The loose translation was "With all due respect to fans, please do not vote for me this year for the All-Star Game! Such things must be earned!"

With a clear push from his homeland, Girgensons was selected for last year's game in Columbus but doesn't want a similar situation for this season's game in Nashville. "All due respect to fans, it's just something that you have to deserve," Girgensons said today. "How it went last year, I don't want to repeat that. It's a lot of pressure on me and something that's not earned right now. "It was mixed emotions, different emotions," he said. "It's not something I got too much satisfaction out of and something I don't want to repeat this year."

Girgensons has just two goals and two assists this season but his rating in 21 games is just minus-1 and the Sabres clearly missed him defensively and on faceoffs when he missed four games due to an injury last month. "I don't think I've played bad. I've stuck with it. My offensive production hasn't been where it was last year but I think i've done a pretty decent job overall. I hope I can get more chances at scoring and making plays."

http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2015/...me-something-i-dont-want-to-repeat-this-year/

 

[Namejs]

I agree with most of this post, but the label you give him in the first bolded... is in conflict with some of the accurate observations in the 2nd bolded.

Well, not really. If he had a real good all-around game without any imperfections, he wouldn't just be a 'good 3rd-liner'.

Dominating in the offensive zone and maintaining puck possession is crucial when you're a shutdown center, and I think Girgs is exceptionally good at that. So, while he might not be a playmaker, he definitely excels at killing the puck. He will block shots with his face, he'll hustle, and he will get a bunch of goals through his effort alone. And it's not like he has the hands of John Scott either, he does have some moves and he can deke past guys.

That sounds like a good 3rd-line shutdown center to me.

 

[DJN21]

This time last year nearly everyone was singing his praise. A moderately big injury, slow start and a few shiny new toys later and he is under this much scrutiny. It's to easy to forget how young hr is too. I think he will play a very crucial role in this teams future. If larsson looked like he did the last handful of games last year all the time yes girgs would be expendable but that's not the case. All that being said he is our most valuable realistic trade chip so...

 

[TalkingProuder]

I am still on the Girgensons is awesome camp. I also am in the put Zemgus in as top 6 power forward and find another defensive center for the third line.

 

[Matt Ress]

Could just be one of those guys that steps up when he needs to but, unfortunately steps down without the added pressure. You'd think with the same quality linemates and lowered competition, he'd be putting up better numbers. Still not ready to write off this kid. We know what he's capable of even if we've seen his ceiling and that's presumptuous.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

This time last year nearly everyone was singing his praise. A moderately big injury, slow start and a few shiny new toys later and he is under this much scrutiny. It's to easy to forget how young hr is too. I think he will play a very crucial role in this teams future. If larsson looked like he did the last handful of games last year all the time yes girgs would be expendable but that's not the case. All that being said he is our most valuable realistic trade chip so...

this time last year we had Zadorov and there was no need to talk about needing a defenseman

 

[Matt Ress]

That's getting a bit off topic but you see his point.(?)

I'd move either Larsson or Girgs for a two way finishing wing but I know those guys come around fewer than top d men.

 

[Wisent42]

Girgensons seems to be the kind of character who rises to the challenge. Therefor he should be exposed to difficulties, like facing opponents top line. And I have a feeling he will be a playoff beast.

But off course he also has to get more consistant. His ceiling is high, but his floor is too low. Not worried though, he'll get there. He can probably learn a lot from ROR.

 

[Heraldic]

Are people actually thinking that Girgs is in some kind of decline or something because he hasn't produced too many points?

If so, I recommend everyone to carefully examine his usage and role last season compared to this season, and especially taking into account the system we're playing.

Regarding offense we have one really big weakness in our system. That weakness is something that pretty much prevents us using our perhaps one of the biggest asset - speed. In our system we don't generate odd-man rushes pretty much any at all, we don't transition fast. In that regard we're playing the game a really similar fashion as Kings (who are also a team who don't score a ton of goals during a regular season. Terry Murray's impact is pretty obvious here as well). For example Evander Kane would pot a lot more points on a transition based team with awful lot of odd-man rushes.

On the Detroit game we generated one odd-man rush goal... And who was the other participant with Kane? Risto. A d-man. That is also the reason why we need legs from our blueline. Our forwards play so deep in our zone that we simply cannot have too many odd-man rushes. That's why d-men with mobility are extremely important because they can start an odd-man rush after breaking up the possession. Slower d-men have to first pass the puck to someone, and then it is usually too late for an odd-man rush.

What that has to do with Girgs? His biggest asset offensively is his skating and strength... In our system he is not able to use his speed as much as he could in another system. Girgs has also been as a center usually the player who keeps the puck most on his line. He is not skilled enough to penetrate an organised unit. That is the reason why his line usually ends up cycling the puck, and you don't generate the best scoring chances that way.

In our system our forwards needs to be fast so that they can forecheck hard - not because they can start an odd-man rush fast after blocking a shot etc.

Does that mean we should abandon our system? If you want short term gains like Calgary or Colorado with no long term sustainability, then, most likely. But if you want to have a team surrounded by a system that wins you cups, but makes scoring during a regular season difficult, then this is the way to go. During about last half a decade, possession teams have eventually beaten every transition team in the playoffs. Montreal is perhaps the best example of a team who thrives during a regular season with transition system, but who struggles relatively a lot more during the playoffs. The game chances a lot during playoffs, and quality teams don't offer so many odd-man rushes.

The above contains a lot of off-topic, but I'm just pretty baffled that there are actually posts that say they're not ready to write Girgs off or something like that (because it implies something is very wrong there). He has done pretty good job so far, and has a big role in our team already. He is pretty much the type of player that eventually will be a big reason why you will be able to execute possession type of system and dominate against transition teams in the playoffs. Detroit nowadays is a transition team... We made a really good job preventing them having too many odd-man rushes regarding the amount of skill they have. It wasn't perfect, but it was really good. We were able to stop they're rushes pretty easily if they didn't get an odd-man rush. Dylan Larkin was pretty much totally invisible on that game. And one of the biggest reasons was that we didn't give them space or time when they transitioned the puck. He is a player who lives offensively (and at this point seemingly dies) by being part and generating odd-man rushes with his speed. If he is reguarly facing 2-3 opponents when he is rushing the puck, he doesn't do much. And by the way, that is pretty much the situation where Evander Kane is regularly (yet Kane can dump the puck and win the race, because he is a lot more stronger player)

I do understand the speculation about trading Girgs in order to fill one of our hole (but I do not share the opinion, because trading him would create a hole as well), but I do not understand that he should be considered to be traded because he has been a disappointment or something.

I recommend people to think 1) what kind of team/system we're building here 2) what kind of holes our team has relating that kind of team/system ATM 3) is our objective to win now or build towards the future.

This season alone means pretty much nothing. It doesn't matter how this team ends up being in the standings. What matters is how this team is developing towards the type of team that we have talked during those tank years. It doesn't come over a night, and you absolutely don't make any moves based on this season alone. How Girgs is producing offense in his role and usage with the teammates he has, is almost meaningless. It would be a problem, if he were expected to be a guy who generates offense on his line.

 

[Matt Ress]

Are people actually thinking that Girgs is in some kind of decline or something because he hasn't produced too many points?

If so, I recommend everyone to carefully examine his usage and role last season compared to this season, and especially taking into account the system we're playing.

Regarding offense we have one really big weakness in our system. That weakness is something that pretty much prevents us using our perhaps one of the biggest asset - speed. In our system we don't generate odd-man rushes pretty much any at all, we don't transition fast. In that regard we're playing the game a really similar fashion as Kings (who are also a team who don't score a ton of goals during a regular season. Terry Murray's impact is pretty obvious here as well). For example Evander Kane would pot a lot more points on a transition based team with awful lot of odd-man rushes.

On the Detroit game we generated one odd-man rush goal... And who was the other participant with Kane? Risto. A d-man. That is also the reason why we need legs from our blueline. Our forwards play so deep in our zone that we simply cannot have too many odd-man rushes. That's why d-men with mobility are extremely important because they can start an odd-man rush after breaking up the possession. Slower d-men have to first pass the puck to someone, and then it is usually too late for an odd-man rush.

What that has to do with Girgs? His biggest asset offensively is his skating and strength... In our system he is not able to use his speed as much as he could in another system. Girgs has also been as a center usually the player who keeps the puck most on his line. He is not skilled enough to penetrate an organised unit. That is the reason why his line usually ends up cycling the puck, and you don't generate the best scoring chances that way.

In our system our forwards needs to be fast so that they can forecheck hard - not because they can start an odd-man rush fast after blocking a shot etc.

Does that mean we should abandon our system? If you want short term gains like Calgary or Colorado with no long term sustainability, then, most likely. But if you want to have a team surrounded by a system that wins you cups, but makes scoring during a regular season difficult, then this is the way to go. During about last half a decade, possession teams have eventually beaten every transition team in the playoffs. Montreal is perhaps the best example of a team who thrives during a regular season with transition system, but who struggles relatively a lot more during the playoffs. The game chances a lot during playoffs, and quality teams don't offer so many odd-man rushes.

The above contains a lot of off-topic, but I'm just pretty baffled that there are actually posts that say they're not ready to write Girgs off or something like that (because it implies something is very wrong there). He has done pretty good job so far, and has a big role in our team already. He is pretty much the type of player that eventually will be a big reason why you will be able to execute possession type of system and dominate against transition teams in the playoffs. Detroit nowadays is a transition team... We made a really good job preventing them having too many odd-man rushes regarding the amount of skill they have. It wasn't perfect, but it was really good. We were able to stop they're rushes pretty easily if they didn't get an odd-man rush. Dylan Larkin was pretty much totally invisible on that game. And one of the biggest reasons was that we didn't give them space or time when they transitioned the puck. He is a player who lives offensively (and at this point seemingly dies) by being part and generating odd-man rushes with his speed. If he is reguarly facing 2-3 opponents when he is rushing the puck, he doesn't do much. And by the way, that is pretty much the situation where Evander Kane is regularly (yet Kane can dump the puck and win the race, because he is a lot more stronger player)

I do understand the speculation about trading Girgs in order to fill one of our hole (but I do not share the opinion, because trading him would create a hole as well), but I do not understand that he should be considered to be traded because he has been a disappointment or something.

I recommend people to think 1) what kind of team/system we're building here 2) what kind of holes our team has relating that kind of team/system ATM 3) is our objective to win now or build towards the future.

This season alone means pretty much nothing. It doesn't matter how this team ends up being in the standings. What matters is how this team is developing towards the type of team that we have talked during those tank years. It doesn't come over a night, and you absolutely don't make any moves based on this season alone. How Girgs is producing offense in his role and usage with the teammates he has, is almost meaningless. It would be a problem, if he were expected to be a guy who generates offense on his line.

I'm not gonna lie, I didn't read all of that. Call that my fault if you must. You make excellent points anoint the system and Girgs role and that impact on his game but if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture (while understanding that I haven't disregarded his play, merely noted that he hasn't been as good), I'll counter with his obvious play; his speed and power plays a major role in the scheme fundamentally yet, per eye test or stat wise, he hasn't been much of a contributor.

With all things aside, I could argue that he may benefit from having an Ennis on his line but otherwise, has under performed. I won't be pushed into saying I want him moved because it's more about how he can be most successful and what needs to be around him to make that happen. I'm getting long winded but, yes, he needs to be doing more. He needs to be more assertive offensively. He needs to carry the puck more and possess it more generally. I simply noted that because he wasn't dependent upon for that, he's been lazy about it and not done himself justice.

 

[Heraldic]

I'm not gonna lie, I didn't read all of that. Call that my fault if you must. You make excellent points anoint the system and Girgs role and that impact on his game but if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture (while understanding that I haven't disregarded his play, merely noted that he hasn't been as good), I'll counter with his obvious play; his speed and power plays a major role in the scheme fundamentally yet, per eye test or stat wise, he hasn't been much of a contributor.

What you see Girgs role on this team this season?

I really wonder how you can say that he is not a contributor stat wise. He has relatively faced tougher competition this season than ROR, has gotten a lot d-zone starts, has positive corsi-numbers and still has clearly the best GA/60 number on this team - and his three most regular linemates have been Moulson, Gionta and Foligno. None of them are exactly defensive or puck possession beasts. What kind of numbers you expect him to get?

Or if you're talking about offensive numbers, then you indeed didn't read my post. We're playing under a system where speed doesn't generate quality scoring chances - speed generates puck possession. Puck possession alone doesn't generate scoring chances... You need skill/strength to generate scoring chances through possession, and we lack those ingredients. We have players who have one of those particular ingredients, but overall we don't have enough. Part of it is because our veterans are not good enough and part of is that our youngsters are not ready.

With all things aside, I could argue that he may benefit from having an Ennis on his line but otherwise, has under performed. I won't be pushed into saying I want him moved because it's more about how he can be most successful and what needs to be around him to make that happen. I'm getting long winded but, yes, he needs to be doing more. He needs to be more assertive offensively. He needs to carry the puck more and possess it more generally. I simply noted that because he wasn't dependent upon for that, he's been lazy about it and not done himself justice.

If you're expecting Girgs being able to constantly penetrate organised unit by rushing the puck, I think you're going to be disappointed. That's not what kind of player he is, has ever been or will ever be.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Are people actually thinking that Girgs is in some kind of decline or something because he hasn't produced too many points?

If so, I recommend everyone to carefully examine his usage and role last season compared to this season, and especially taking into account the system we're playing.

Regarding offense we have one really big weakness in our system. That weakness is something that pretty much prevents us using our perhaps one of the biggest asset - speed. In our system we don't generate odd-man rushes pretty much any at all, we don't transition fast. In that regard we're playing the game a really similar fashion as Kings (who are also a team who don't score a ton of goals during a regular season. Terry Murray's impact is pretty obvious here as well). For example Evander Kane would pot a lot more points on a transition based team with awful lot of odd-man rushes.

On the Detroit game we generated one odd-man rush goal... And who was the other participant with Kane? Risto. A d-man. That is also the reason why we need legs from our blueline. Our forwards play so deep in our zone that we simply cannot have too many odd-man rushes. That's why d-men with mobility are extremely important because they can start an odd-man rush after breaking up the possession. Slower d-men have to first pass the puck to someone, and then it is usually too late for an odd-man rush.

What that has to do with Girgs? His biggest asset offensively is his skating and strength... In our system he is not able to use his speed as much as he could in another system. Girgs has also been as a center usually the player who keeps the puck most on his line. He is not skilled enough to penetrate an organised unit. That is the reason why his line usually ends up cycling the puck, and you don't generate the best scoring chances that way.

In our system our forwards needs to be fast so that they can forecheck hard - not because they can start an odd-man rush fast after blocking a shot etc.

Does that mean we should abandon our system? If you want short term gains like Calgary or Colorado with no long term sustainability, then, most likely. But if you want to have a team surrounded by a system that wins you cups, but makes scoring during a regular season difficult, then this is the way to go. During about last half a decade, possession teams have eventually beaten every transition team in the playoffs. Montreal is perhaps the best example of a team who thrives during a regular season with transition system, but who struggles relatively a lot more during the playoffs. The game chances a lot during playoffs, and quality teams don't offer so many odd-man rushes.

The above contains a lot of off-topic, but I'm just pretty baffled that there are actually posts that say they're not ready to write Girgs off or something like that (because it implies something is very wrong there). He has done pretty good job so far, and has a big role in our team already. He is pretty much the type of player that eventually will be a big reason why you will be able to execute possession type of system and dominate against transition teams in the playoffs. Detroit nowadays is a transition team... We made a really good job preventing them having too many odd-man rushes regarding the amount of skill they have. It wasn't perfect, but it was really good. We were able to stop they're rushes pretty easily if they didn't get an odd-man rush. Dylan Larkin was pretty much totally invisible on that game. And one of the biggest reasons was that we didn't give them space or time when they transitioned the puck. He is a player who lives offensively (and at this point seemingly dies) by being part and generating odd-man rushes with his speed. If he is reguarly facing 2-3 opponents when he is rushing the puck, he doesn't do much. And by the way, that is pretty much the situation where Evander Kane is regularly (yet Kane can dump the puck and win the race, because he is a lot more stronger player)

I do understand the speculation about trading Girgs in order to fill one of our hole (but I do not share the opinion, because trading him would create a hole as well), but I do not understand that he should be considered to be traded because he has been a disappointment or something.

I recommend people to think 1) what kind of team/system we're building here 2) what kind of holes our team has relating that kind of team/system ATM 3) is our objective to win now or build towards the future.

This season alone means pretty much nothing. It doesn't matter how this team ends up being in the standings. What matters is how this team is developing towards the type of team that we have talked during those tank years. It doesn't come over a night, and you absolutely don't make any moves based on this season alone. How Girgs is producing offense in his role and usage with the teammates he has, is almost meaningless. It would be a problem, if he were expected to be a guy who generates offense on his line.

I'd love to see Girgensons eventually on Eichel's wing, and Fasching on the other. In Buffalo's system, I think he'd be more effective on the wing.

 

[joshjull]

He was our #1C last year. How do you just forget most of his season? He was in the All-Star game. Joshjull started threads about him being the next Bergeron. He was like, one of three guys worth watching all last year. He's probably 50% of the 2014-15 highlight reel.

It was a hell of a 21 game run

 

[OkimLom]

this time last year we had Zadorov and there was no need to talk about needing a defenseman

To be fair, we still needed to find a defenseman. Zadorov was not ready for the NHL yet. Offensively he was ready, but the guy was a train-wreck in his own zone. We needed to get a guy that can insulate him while he got ready for the league. To me, for the role we were hoping he would bring(1st pairing with Risto), he probably was another 3-4 years away. If we were competing for a playoff spot within the next two years we still needed that #1 LD.

 

[Matt Ress]

What you see Girgs role on this team this season?

I really wonder how you can say that he is not a contributor stat wise. He has relatively faced tougher competition this season than ROR, has gotten a lot d-zone starts, has positive corsi-numbers and still has clearly the best GA/60 number on this team - and his three most regular linemates have been Moulson, Gionta and Foligno. None of them are exactly defensive or puck possession beasts. What kind of numbers you expect him to get?

Or if you're talking about offensive numbers, then you indeed didn't read my post. We're playing under a system where speed doesn't generate quality scoring chances - speed generates puck possession. Puck possession alone doesn't generate scoring chances... You need skill/strength to generate scoring chances through possession, and we lack those ingredients. We have players who have one of those particular ingredients, but overall we don't have enough. Part of it is because our veterans are not good enough and part of is that our youngsters are not ready.



If you're expecting Girgs being able to constantly penetrate organised unit by rushing the puck, I think you're going to be disappointed. That's not what kind of player he is, has ever been or will ever be.

I don't necessarily disagree. I was admittedly getting a bit tired. Either way, I see him as a not quite power forward with some physicality, possession skills, defensive prowess, and a scoring touch but master of none. Frankly, this season so far, he's been underwhelming to me on every one of those fronts defense aside. I understand he's faced tough competition but pretty much always has. I guess I was expecting more offensive production from him as well but I know the PP time and oz starts has a lot to do with that. I just don't see him as assertive around the net ands getting to the net, which is the player he can be.

 

[Matt Ress]

I'd love to see Girgensons eventually on Eichel's wing, and Fasching on the other. In Buffalo's system, I think he'd be more effective on the wing.

I think this would be very effective in a year or two and would allow the coveted "two top lines" scenario.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

To be fair, we still needed to find a defenseman. Zadorov was not ready for the NHL yet. Offensively he was ready, but the guy was a train-wreck in his own zone. We needed to get a guy that can insulate him while he got ready for the league. To me, for the role we were hoping he would bring(1st pairing with Risto), he probably was another 3-4 years away. If we were competing for a playoff spot within the next two years we still needed that #1 LD.

I dont think that is fair, we didnt need to go out to get one, he was here, we were just waiting for him to develop, there certainly wasnt a need to trade Girgensons to insulate Zadorov