Player Discussion Zemgus Girgensons

[Namejs]

I don't necessarily disagree. I was admittedly getting a bit tired. Either way, I see him as a not quite power forward with some physicality, possession skills, defensive prowess, and a scoring touch but master of none. Frankly, this season so far, he's been underwhelming to me on every one of those fronts defense aside. I understand he's faced tough competition but pretty much always has. I guess I was expecting more offensive production from him as well but I know the PP time and oz starts has a lot to do with that. I just don't see him as assertive around the net ands getting to the net, which is the player he can be.

For some reason I don't think you'd be saying all of this if Girgs would have something like 8 or 9 points by now.

Once again, his offensive production has been so limited mostly due to chance. His shooting efficiency was extremely low (3%), which just isn't sustainable over the long term. He'll be OK.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

What I love about Girgs is that even if he isn't producing where he should be ( as a 20-20 guy ) he brings so much more to the table that you can swallow the diminished production. On the same coin it's why Larsson is expendable imo. Larsson is a poor mans Girgensons and while Girgs may not be producing as much as he should, Larsson on the other hand isn't producing anything. 0 goals 1/3rd of the season in is just inexcusable. And yes I know some players are more defensive oriented it still doesn't change the fact. If you are a top 9 forward you need to score a little period. Take away last years fluke run for Larsson where he got the premium line mates / situation etc and he has zero goals in 51 games. That's quite frankly pathetic. You would think by accident he would have scored a goal here or there. 0 career goals in 51 games in seasons that aren't 13-14 is horrid production.

 

[LaxSabre]

 

[jBuds]

okay that's an interesting take. Maybe they didn't play themselves for a substantial raise, but to say they didn't play themselves into new contracts, that's ridiculous.

Guys that haven't played themselves into new contracts are guys like Leduc.

Agreed. It's also a bit odd to pick two of the more versatile guys at their respective positions while seemingly implying they don't have a fit.

Especially Girgensons. He can LITERALLY play all positions, up and down 1 through 4.

 

[stokes84]

Agreed. It's also a bit odd to pick two of the more versatile guys at their respective positions while seemingly implying they don't have a fit.

Especially Girgensons. He can LITERALLY play all positions, up and down 1 through 4.

we certainly want to be able to say this, but with the way he's played this season, you can't possibly think he is a top 6 option on a good team. He's just absolutely lost in the offensive zone. It's painful to watch.

 

[Zip15]

Anyone know why Bylsma put the Eichel line out there with the empty net? Not usually something he does.

Perhaps more comfortable with the situation given that Girgs and Reinhart are on his wings - and he had them out there with Bogo/McCabe who, if nothing else, Bylsma seems to trust. The final three shifts were Larsson's line, ROR's line, Eichel's line (and, contrary to Rayzor's belief, if Bylsma didn't have to keep Jack's line on the ice due to icing, I think Larsson's line would've been back out there).

 

[Yatzhee]

Agreed. It's also a bit odd to pick two of the more versatile guys at their respective positions while seemingly implying they don't have a fit.

Especially Girgensons. He can LITERALLY play all positions, up and down 1 through 4.

I don't know what hockey your watching, but Girgs IS proving he can't do what you claim, at least this season. And I see no reason to believe he'll be able to do what you claim next season either.
The reality is, as more talented youngsters with hunger continue to show up from the pipe line, Girgs will be relegated to 4th line duty unless he can some how find a way to improve, which, as I've stated, doesn't appear to be on the horizon.

 

[Paxon]

I don't know what hockey your watching, but Girgs IS proving he can't do what you claim, at least this season. And I see no reason to believe he'll be able to do what you claim next season either.
The reality is, as more talented youngsters with hunger continue to show up from the pipe line, Girgs will be relegated to 4th line duty unless he can some how find a way to improve, which, as I've stated, doesn't appear to be on the horizon.

4th line duty?

 

[Yatzhee]

4th line duty?

Yea Paxon, 4th line duty, maybe even traded, if this play continues.
At some point the acknowledgement of competition, skill and passion from the youth is going to catch him, unless he can turn it around. I wish just half the Girgs from a season ago would show up. Maybe next season he rebounds, maybe not.

 

[sabrebuild]

I don't know what hockey your watching, but Girgs IS proving he can't do what you claim, at least this season. And I see no reason to believe he'll be able to do what you claim next season either.
The reality is, as more talented youngsters with hunger continue to show up from the pipe line, Girgs will be relegated to 4th line duty unless he can some how find a way to improve, which, as I've stated, doesn't appear to be on the horizon.

This is crazy talk.

 

[Husko]

we certainly want to be able to say this, but with the way he's played this season, you can't possibly think he is a top 6 option on a good team. He's just absolutely lost in the offensive zone. It's painful to watch.

And yet Eichel produces more with Girgensons than any other winger... (except, I suspect perhaps Reinhart, though the sample size there is minuscule).

The tale of the downfall of Zemgus Girgensons has become one of the most bizarre narratives on this board.

 

[internet toughguy]

I don't know what hockey your watching, but Girgs IS proving he can't do what you claim, at least this season. And I see no reason to believe he'll be able to do what you claim next season either.
The reality is, as more talented youngsters with hunger continue to show up from the pipe line, Girgs will be relegated to 4th line duty unless he can some how find a way to improve, which, as I've stated, doesn't appear to be on the horizon.

The thing about Girgensons is ever since he was drafted, his only NHL coaches have been Rolston and Nolan. Coaches in over their heads who played to his strength of work ethic, not necessarily plays or structure.

With Bylsma at the helm, perhaps this is the first time in his pro career where he actually has to think about plays and his role. In my mind there's a necessary adjustment to the new coaching style. Maybe he won't figure it out, but after all of the recent turmoil I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this year.

 

[Jame]

And yet Eichel produces more with Girgensons than any other winger... (except, I suspect perhaps Reinhart, though the sample size there is minuscule).

The tale of the downfall of Zemgus Girgensons has become one of the most bizarre narratives on this board.

it's a "because points" narrative.

The fact that Zemgus has been effective in multiple roles should be seen as a positive... but "because points", it's not.

Eichel's splits with and without Zemgus tell the impact Zemgus can have on a line. Hell, virtually every player on the team has better on ice metrics when playing with Zemgus.

While his offensive confidence seems shot, and his skill set may never fulfill some early offensive promise, he is instead developing into a "super utility" player. And while "because points" crowds won't see value in that, hockey people surely do.

 

[stokes84]

And yet Eichel produces more with Girgensons than any other winger... (except, I suspect perhaps Reinhart, though the sample size there is minuscule).

The tale of the downfall of Zemgus Girgensons has become one of the most bizarre narratives on this board.

The tale of propping him up is much more bizzare. Reinhart's sample size is too small, but Girg's is somehow valid? Meanwhile, they take Evander Kane off of that line and replace him with Girgensons and what happens? Eichel's line that was dominating now looks ordinary. That doesn't mean anything to you?

 

[OkimLom]

And yet Eichel produces more with Girgensons than any other winger... (except, I suspect perhaps Reinhart, though the sample size there is minuscule).

The tale of the downfall of Zemgus Girgensons has become one of the most bizarre narratives on this board.

Girgs for me fell victim of once again Darcy bringing up guys way to soon. Girgs brings the effort that is much is certain. However, the years he played under Rolston and Nolan, were very bad to his development. If there was something he didn't need to learn, was compete, which was what the Nolan hire was for. Girgs should've been in Rochester learning how to play the pro game. He should've been learning systems and learn to be a professional back in the minors. There really was no reason to have him up here while Darcy was rebuilding this team, unless he thought they were done after the Risto/Zadorov draft.

Unfortunately Buffalo has spent too much time worrying about the Sabres and the guys up here and ignored how important it is to have a stable organization in the minors. Your Parent club may be in the rebuild mode, and might be in disarray, but your minor club needs to have a solid foundation that the kids can continue to learn and develop their play. Darcy and Tim, at first has, done a subpar job on that.

Say what you will about Toronto and their rebuild, but at least they have a place where their prospects come up and learn the professional game.

 

[Yatzhee]

The thing about Girgensons is ever since he was drafted, his only NHL coaches have been Rolston and Nolan. Coaches in over their heads who played to his strength of work ethic, not necessarily plays or structure.

With Bylsma at the helm, perhaps this is the first time in his pro career where he actually has to think about plays and his role. In my mind there's a necessary adjustment to the new coaching style. Maybe he won't figure it out, but after all of the recent turmoil I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this year.

I can agree with this, but only to a certain extent. Maybe it is system some what, but I'm also of the mind set it's adaptability, confidence to a lesser extent but mainly chemistry with his team mates. I'm not seeing the adaption mind set and the chemistry situation develop. Maybe next season is different, but as I've pointed out, time isn't standing still for ten pipeline. Unlike so many others, I firmly believe Girgs is not a good fit with Eichel, who is a player that needs his line mates to maximize their skills while playing with him, something Girgs clearly is not doing.

 

[Zip15]

And yet Eichel produces more with Girgensons than any other winger... (except, I suspect perhaps Reinhart, though the sample size there is minuscule).

The tale of the downfall of Zemgus Girgensons has become one of the most bizarre narratives on this board.

At ES, Eichel has played more with Reinhart (271 mins, approx.) than Girgensons (228 mins, approx.), FYI.

 

[Sabre Dance]

At ES, Eichel has played more with Reinhart (271 mins, approx.) than Girgensons (228 mins, approx.), FYI.

Advanced stats don't look good for Eichel with Reinhart mainly because of their play together early in the year. Girgensons with Eichel had great success early on, not so much lately.

I don't mind Girgensons with Eichel, but I think putting him on a checking line is best.

 

[Jim Carr's Rug]

Girgs for me fell victim of once again Darcy bringing up guys way to soon. Girgs brings the effort that is much is certain. However, the years he played under Rolston and Nolan, were very bad to his development. If there was something he didn't need to learn, was compete, which was what the Nolan hire was for. Girgs should've been in Rochester learning how to play the pro game. He should've been learning systems and learn to be a professional back in the minors. There really was no reason to have him up here while Darcy was rebuilding this team, unless he thought they were done after the Risto/Zadorov draft.

Unfortunately Buffalo has spent too much time worrying about the Sabres and the guys up here and ignored how important it is to have a stable organization in the minors. Your Parent club may be in the rebuild mode, and might be in disarray, but your minor club needs to have a solid foundation that the kids can continue to learn and develop their play. Darcy and Tim, at first has, done a subpar job on that.

Say what you will about Toronto and their rebuild, but at least they have a place where their prospects come up and learn the professional game.

Here here, totally agree.

 

[BananaSquad]

Advanced stats don't look good for Eichel with Reinhart mainly because of their play together early in the year. Girgensons with Eichel had great success early on, not so much lately.

I don't mind Girgensons with Eichel, but I think putting him on a checking line is best.

Of course it is, cuz hes not a top line winger.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Girgs for me fell victim of once again Darcy bringing up guys way to soon. Girgs brings the effort that is much is certain. However, the years he played under Rolston and Nolan, were very bad to his development. If there was something he didn't need to learn, was compete, which was what the Nolan hire was for. Girgs should've been in Rochester learning how to play the pro game. He should've been learning systems and learn to be a professional back in the minors. There really was no reason to have him up here while Darcy was rebuilding this team, unless he thought they were done after the Risto/Zadorov draft.

Unfortunately Buffalo has spent too much time worrying about the Sabres and the guys up here and ignored how important it is to have a stable organization in the minors. Your Parent club may be in the rebuild mode, and might be in disarray, but your minor club needs to have a solid foundation that the kids can continue to learn and develop their play. Darcy and Tim, at first has, done a subpar job on that.

Say what you will about Toronto and their rebuild, but at least they have a place where their prospects come up and learn the professional game.

Ouch. The truth hurts.

Girgs will be an effective NHLer, but it really makes you wonder what could have been if he wasn't rushed right up to the big club by the Teds Nolan.

 

[internet toughguy]

I can agree with this, but only to a certain extent. Maybe it is system some what, but I'm also of the mind set it's adaptability, confidence to a lesser extent but mainly chemistry with his team mates. I'm not seeing the adaption mind set and the chemistry situation develop. Maybe next season is different, but as I've pointed out, time isn't standing still for ten pipeline. Unlike so many others, I firmly believe Girgs is not a good fit with Eichel, who is a player that needs his line mates to maximize their skills while playing with him, something Girgs clearly is not doing.

Sure, but you can see how long it takes chemistry to develop between new teammates. Girgensons isn't the only offender.

 

[Chainshot]

it's a "because points" narrative.

The fact that Zemgus has been effective in multiple roles should be seen as a positive... but "because points", it's not.

Eichel's splits with and without Zemgus tell the impact Zemgus can have on a line. Hell, virtually every player on the team has better on ice metrics when playing with Zemgus.

While his offensive confidence seems shot, and his skill set may never fulfill some early offensive promise, he is instead developing into a "super utility" player. And while "because points" crowds won't see value in that, hockey people surely do.

Talking about a 22-year old as a finished product too.

 

[dire wolf]

Advanced stats don't look good for Eichel with Reinhart mainly because of their play together early in the year. Girgensons with Eichel had great success early on, not so much lately.

I don't mind Girgensons with Eichel, but I think putting him on a checking line is best.

I don't want to break up the 3rd line because they have really gelled, but I actually think Foligno would be a great compliment to Eichel and Reinhart. And not just because it would be fun to have Moose and Rhino on the same line.

 

[Yatzhee]

Sure, but you can see how long it takes chemistry to develop between new teammates. Girgensons isn't the only offender.

I completely agree. If he's not moved by next season, we'll have the opportunity for further evaluation.
But, as i eluded to, talent in the pipeline isn't standing idle either. If nothing else, camp will be particularly interesting next season.