Would you want Nurse in the NHL next year?
- Thread starter thadd
- Start date
stratedge
My relationship with the Oilers is abusive.
A player is going to look ready playing around other junior players, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to bring him to the NHL. You have no idea what an NHL player looks like playing junior. If he has to spend another year in junior and then a year in the AHL, I don't care... I'd rather he came late than early. There is no such thing as too late. We can't keep filling the roster with players who can't hit the ground running and then they learn to lose and have the weight of the city on their shoulders (see: current team). They all had nice offensive stats but can anyone play a lick of defense on this club? That's what experience in junior and AHL get you; guys with well rounded games. You know, those players we don't have.
Players shouldn't enter the NHL thinking maybe they can blend in, they should enter the NHL knowing they can be stand out players.
Look at Arcobello... there's no such thing as bringing a guy to the NHL "too late". They don't spoil. It's not a thing, so we need to build a team around bringing in guys a little past due rather than a little (or a lot) before due. It's just such a stupid habit of management who keep cultivating the plant at the first sign of a tiny bit of fruit. And fans are so, so guilty of over hyping prospects and getting caught up in the hype machine that this board is. Every time you come on here next year's projected lines are 50% made up of prospects who've never played a game. Can't blame them though since this clubs management style reinforces that kind of projection by making it reality, at least late in the season as the wheels come off and half the team is injured.
Bottom line, considering tossing Nurse in before it's a foregone conclusion he's going to be awesome (not just survive without getting crushed) and you're just throwing more gasoline onto the burning wreck that is this hockey club.
You want Ryan Smyth back next yr for more? No thanks. Also, that D is horrible. They will get man handled. We need a top pairing guy to mentor our young stars on D. Doesn't matter how they do it, but management will have to find a way. I'd expect at least one more top 3D option coming via trade or UFA if they're bringing one of the kids up. I'm fine with Belov and Ferrence as the 5/6 and J Schultz as the 4D if he gets a legit 3D partner (this could be klefbom/nurse/ekblad). Petry can play 2D if he gets a legit 1D partner...
Every year there is addition by subtraction, but while the roster is stronger than last yr the coach sucks balls and hasn't managed the system play well at all.
Next year there is no Dubnyk, Labarbera, Ryan Smyth, Ryan Jones, Ben Eager or N Schultz. Which likely means 3 more vet players coming in up front, a Couple UFA goalies (maybe Bryz if that experiment goes well) and 1 rookie D man.
I am the Liquor
ABK
- Oct 15, 2008
- 40,455
- 5,491
A player is going to look ready playing around other junior players, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to bring him to the NHL. You have no idea what an NHL player looks like playing junior. If he has to spend another year in junior and then a year in the AHL, I don't care... I'd rather he came late than early. There is no such thing as too late. We can't keep filling the roster with players who can't hit the ground running and then they learn to lose and have the weight of the city on their shoulders (see: current team). They all had nice offensive stats but can anyone play a lick of defense on this club? That's what experience in junior and AHL get you; guys with well rounded games. You know, those players we don't have.
Players shouldn't enter the NHL thinking maybe they can blend in, they should enter the NHL knowing they can be stand out players.
Look at Arcobello... there's no such thing as bringing a guy to the NHL "too late". They don't spoil. It's not a thing, so we need to build a team around bringing in guys a little past due rather than a little (or a lot) before due. It's just such a stupid habit of management who keep cultivating the plant at the first sign of a tiny bit of fruit. And fans are so, so guilty of over hyping prospects and getting caught up in the hype machine that this board is. Every time you come on here next year's projected lines are 50% made up of prospects who've never played a game. Can't blame them though since this clubs management style reinforces that kind of projection by making it reality, at least late in the season as the wheels come off and half the team is injured.
Bottom line, considering tossing Nurse in before it's a foregone conclusion he's going to be awesome (not just survive without getting crushed) and you're just throwing more gasoline onto the burning wreck that is this hockey club.
I for one appreciate and value the views expressed by someone who has actually taken the time to watch a player play and then come here and share them with us.
I wouldnt dream of lecturing the guy on why he is wrong or whatnot.
Oiltankjob Fail
Registered User
- Feb 10, 2013
- 6,686
- 0
This both Pitlick and Arcobello show what proper development does for a player. Arcobello's defensive play is better than any of the young high picks. I would Imagine Gagner would be a lot better player if he was taught to play defence before getting a sniff at this league.
Joey Moss
Registered User
- Aug 29, 2008
- 36,162
- 8,005
Hmm. I thought the rule was 19 years old, not 20. In that case I'm in agreement with IATL. He won't benefit from playing another year of junior. He's already shown the Oilers he could have made the team as an 18 year old and he's dominating the OHL right now. What's he going to develop in the OHL next year? He already has everything developed down there. At the very least, Nurse should get 9 games.
I see Nurse making it next year cause Oilers. He would probably be best to go back to SSM after a 9 game stint but this is the Oilers we're talking about. The only thing is, if they bring Klefbom up, that might play into decision. Can't really break two rookie defensemn into the NHL in the same season.
nuck
Schrodingers Cat
- Aug 18, 2005
- 11,414
- 2,488
I can't see being a graduated Junior hurting him or any other young D man. Alex Pietrangelo did it and he turned out okay. Nurse may take the decision out of their hands by having a monster camp but most teenagers don't benefit from making the jump.
A player is going to look ready playing around other junior players, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to bring him to the NHL. You have no idea what an NHL player looks like playing junior. If he has to spend another year in junior and then a year in the AHL, I don't care... I'd rather he came late than early. There is no such thing as too late. We can't keep filling the roster with players who can't hit the ground running and then they learn to lose and have the weight of the city on their shoulders (see: current team). They all had nice offensive stats but can anyone play a lick of defense on this club? That's what experience in junior and AHL get you; guys with well rounded games. You know, those players we don't have.
Players shouldn't enter the NHL thinking maybe they can blend in, they should enter the NHL knowing they can be stand out players.
Look at Arcobello... there's no such thing as bringing a guy to the NHL "too late". They don't spoil. It's not a thing, so we need to build a team around bringing in guys a little past due rather than a little (or a lot) before due. It's just such a stupid habit of management who keep cultivating the plant at the first sign of a tiny bit of fruit. And fans are so, so guilty of over hyping prospects and getting caught up in the hype machine that this board is. Every time you come on here next year's projected lines are 50% made up of prospects who've never played a game. Can't blame them though since this clubs management style reinforces that kind of projection by making it reality, at least late in the season as the wheels come off and half the team is injured.
Bottom line, considering tossing Nurse in before it's a foregone conclusion he's going to be awesome (not just survive without getting crushed) and you're just throwing more gasoline onto the burning wreck that is this hockey club.
Heh! I disagree with a few of your points big time.
Despite having seen Nurse play live dozens and dozens of times, I don't automatically think he should be in Edmonton based on his OHL play. This year he is in the OHL where he belongs. I base my thought that he is very close on how he adjusted from rookie camp, prospect tournament, and how main camp and exhibition games evolved relating to his play. He can also play more than a lick of defence, so you can rest easy on that point. He actually came here to the Soo and was pimped as much or more for his defensive play.
Players should NOT come in thinking they can dominate IMHO. That is a disasterous opinion to have. There is a sense of entitlement with some of the kids currently on the Oilers that is one of the major hurdles that will have to be overcome before this team can get to the next level. I think a kid should come into the NHL confident in their abilities, but accept being groomed by the vets on how to play and how to be a pro. The current crop of kids immediately stepped to the front of the line and that has been a failure, obviously. The biggest issue in Edmonton is that the wrong group of vets are there to "lead" the way.
Best thing anyone could have done for this kid (I say kid because I am old enough to be his dad), is doubt him. Say he is not strong enough and his strength is what he will work on most. Say his hockey IQ is not good enough and he will make a play that you shake your head at (behind the back pass to in front of the net in the exhibition games). Say his shot sucks and he will take a shot that amazes you (his shot has been his biggest Improvement this year).
Respectfully, people like you should keep talking. Kids with the mental makeup like Nurse are made differently......just tell him he can't. He plays within himself and that level keeps growing game by game. Keep telling him he can't or shouldn't. It will make for one hell of a show.
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Mcnotloilersfan
I'm here, I'm bored
It has nothing to do with the Oilers. Since 2008...
D-men going right to NHL after Draft:
Doughty
Ristolainen
Jones
Larsson
Hedman
OEL
Schenn
Bogosian
Myers
D-men playing in NHL 1 year after draft:
Brodin
Trouba
Murphy
Hamilton*
Gudbranson
Oleksiak and McIlrath were able to go to AHL after one year, so still turned pro.
So Pietro and and Cowen are the only two D-man in the last 6 years that have been taken in the top 10 and had to wait two years. In both cases, these players just weren't ready.
Point is, if Nurse proves he is ready, there is nothing wrong with putting him on the team.
Klefbom should be playing with the Oilers right now and Nurse next year and whoever is our d pick this year should move up the following year.
Failed at getting a decent veteran D to make this happen.
Years done start teaching Klefbom now nothing to lose. Play him against the easiest machups wherever possible. Losing a game does not make a player suck and NHL traning cannot be replicated in the minors or anywhere else. The Oil have nothing to lose so teach them all to play wins be damned.
Rebuild is over time for serious training. And it is happening, even as we complain and beach about the losses.
Failed at getting a decent veteran D to make this happen.
Years done start teaching Klefbom now nothing to lose. Play him against the easiest machups wherever possible. Losing a game does not make a player suck and NHL traning cannot be replicated in the minors or anywhere else. The Oil have nothing to lose so teach them all to play wins be damned.
Rebuild is over time for serious training. And it is happening, even as we complain and beach about the losses.
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Mcnotloilersfan
I'm here, I'm bored
Has Klefbom earned a spot? I don't think it is fair to Fedun and Larsen and Davidson if we keep Klefbom up here just because he was a first round pick. Let him prove himself in the AHL first. He is coming off of serious injuries and adjusting to the NA game. We would ruin him by rushing him, he's not ready.
I'd say no and keep him in the OHL next season (don't think he's eligible for the AHL next season). I'm a believer in the best players in camp should make the cut mantra but in this case, i think proper development supersedes that.
I know that Nurse looked great in preseason but we have seen firsthand what little preseason means.
It's an enormous step to go from juniors straight to the NHL especially for defensemen especially physical ones like Nurse who need to fill out to be able to play their game effectively against men plus with the Smid trade and another rookie in Klefbom all but assuredly being in the lineup next season, that will put even more pressure on Nurse to player a bigger role next season with less veteran support around him.
If the Oilers get Ekblad, that will be even more reason to keep Nurse in junior. Can you imagine having 3 rookies in the lineup? What a gongshow that would be.
What MacT needs to do is bring in a legit top pairing guy in the offseason, he has the assets to do it and needs to get away from this idea that this core is built to be a contender anytime soon or ever for that matter. What that will do is knock every defenseman down a spot in the lineup to where they will be more comfortable and allow the Oilers to properly groom Nurse so that when he makes the jump to the NHL, he will be more than ready and will have more veteran support to lean on.
With that being said, i fully expect Nurse to be in the top 4 next season to pair up with Petry as MacT goes another offseason without properly addressing the real issues on the team.
On another note, these HF ads are ****ing annoying especially when i'm posting on my cell and they block out the entire screen.
During my time typing out this post, the same ad popped up 3 different times.
Most of those defensemen that went straight to the NHL have had their development stunted for the most part.
OEL and Jones had the benefit of playing in excellent defensive systems surrounded by strong veteran presence. Doughty is an exceptional talent. Hedman, Larsson, Bogosian, Schenn and Meyers have all struggled mightily for long stretches, none of them are even close to being a defensive anchor at this point in their careers and a few of them look like possible busts (Myers and Schenn) although it's a bit early for that.
Brodin had the benefit of Suter to lean on. Trouba has been surrounded by some solid veterans, same with Hamilton. Gudbranson looks awful.
Bringing up Nurse into the mess that is the Oilers unless big defensive upgrades are made in the offseason can be a potentially fatal mistake for his development. I'd rather that he get brought up into an environment that is conducive for success, the Oilers have a lot of cleaning up to do to make that happen.
I don't want to see his confidence shattered like what has happened to so many Oiler prospects because he was overwhelmed with too much responsibility too soon. He does seem like a very confident young man but that could change instantly in this environment.
I know that Nurse looked great in preseason but we have seen firsthand what little preseason means.
It's an enormous step to go from juniors straight to the NHL especially for defensemen especially physical ones like Nurse who need to fill out to be able to play their game effectively against men plus with the Smid trade and another rookie in Klefbom all but assuredly being in the lineup next season, that will put even more pressure on Nurse to player a bigger role next season with less veteran support around him.
If the Oilers get Ekblad, that will be even more reason to keep Nurse in junior. Can you imagine having 3 rookies in the lineup? What a gongshow that would be.
What MacT needs to do is bring in a legit top pairing guy in the offseason, he has the assets to do it and needs to get away from this idea that this core is built to be a contender anytime soon or ever for that matter. What that will do is knock every defenseman down a spot in the lineup to where they will be more comfortable and allow the Oilers to properly groom Nurse so that when he makes the jump to the NHL, he will be more than ready and will have more veteran support to lean on.
With that being said, i fully expect Nurse to be in the top 4 next season to pair up with Petry as MacT goes another offseason without properly addressing the real issues on the team.
On another note, these HF ads are ****ing annoying especially when i'm posting on my cell and they block out the entire screen.
During my time typing out this post, the same ad popped up 3 different times.
Most of those defensemen that went straight to the NHL have had their development stunted for the most part.
OEL and Jones had the benefit of playing in excellent defensive systems surrounded by strong veteran presence. Doughty is an exceptional talent. Hedman, Larsson, Bogosian, Schenn and Meyers have all struggled mightily for long stretches, none of them are even close to being a defensive anchor at this point in their careers and a few of them look like possible busts (Myers and Schenn) although it's a bit early for that.
Brodin had the benefit of Suter to lean on. Trouba has been surrounded by some solid veterans, same with Hamilton. Gudbranson looks awful.
Bringing up Nurse into the mess that is the Oilers unless big defensive upgrades are made in the offseason can be a potentially fatal mistake for his development. I'd rather that he get brought up into an environment that is conducive for success, the Oilers have a lot of cleaning up to do to make that happen.
I don't want to see his confidence shattered like what has happened to so many Oiler prospects because he was overwhelmed with too much responsibility too soon. He does seem like a very confident young man but that could change instantly in this environment.
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Yup, it's been that way for awhile but the problem is getting one. Everyone wants one, nobody is trading them away and they rarely get to free agency. I think people are underestimating how hard it is to get a true top pairing d-man in this league. Most teams have to struggle along until someone in there system develops (like Chicago with Keith).
stratedge
My relationship with the Oilers is abusive.
Sure, well as much as watching junior hockey makes one an expert on developing talent, there's always stuff like this out there:
http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres...force-feed-somebody-and-say-were-rebuild.html
I am the Liquor
ABK
- Oct 15, 2008
- 40,455
- 5,491
Lol. The guy is sharing his thoughts from having watched the player live, many times.
Then there is you, who gives us links to newspaper articles.
Thanks IATL, I don't get his condescending BS either.
Strat, I have never considered myself an expert, so cut the crap. I had a much longer response typed out ready to post, but deleted it because I am not going to waste my time with you.
While teams sometimes hurt the development of a kid by bringing him up too soon, that kid's growth can also be stunted if he spends too much time in a place that he really doesn't have much more to learn from. Which one is Nurse? Nobody knows yet. I said earlier that he is where he should be right now. It sucks in this case that the AHL next year isn't an option because I think that next year he shouldn't be in the OHL. It is what it is and whether it is for Nurse, Klefbom or Ekblad(?), a good mentor should be brought in before any of those kids arrive. Of course a top pairing defenceman should also be brought in, but I am not holding my breath for that one. The right kind of mentor is not currently on the roster.
Hell, his leadership is going to be put to the test this Wed and we will all see how far he has come with that. The Soo's last game against Kitchener this past Saturday was easily the worst of the season, a real stinker. This Wed they have to see how they bounce back against Saginaw and will have to do without Matt Murray in net. Murray will be travelling to represent team OHL against the Russians, so the Soo has to play with a rookie kid in net that has very little experience. With the "C" on Nurse's jersey, the level of bounce back is on him. This Soo team was not expected to be nearly as good as they have been and Nurse deserves a lot of credit for both on and off ice leadership.
Lastly, I got a kick out of you quoting Nolan of all people. I could go on and on about how I saw first hand here in the Soo kids like Adam Foote and others evolved under a coach named......, yup...Ted Nolan. Nolan himself would say quite often when he was here that when a kid is ready, he is ready.
Strat, I have never considered myself an expert, so cut the crap. I had a much longer response typed out ready to post, but deleted it because I am not going to waste my time with you.
While teams sometimes hurt the development of a kid by bringing him up too soon, that kid's growth can also be stunted if he spends too much time in a place that he really doesn't have much more to learn from. Which one is Nurse? Nobody knows yet. I said earlier that he is where he should be right now. It sucks in this case that the AHL next year isn't an option because I think that next year he shouldn't be in the OHL. It is what it is and whether it is for Nurse, Klefbom or Ekblad(?), a good mentor should be brought in before any of those kids arrive. Of course a top pairing defenceman should also be brought in, but I am not holding my breath for that one. The right kind of mentor is not currently on the roster.
Hell, his leadership is going to be put to the test this Wed and we will all see how far he has come with that. The Soo's last game against Kitchener this past Saturday was easily the worst of the season, a real stinker. This Wed they have to see how they bounce back against Saginaw and will have to do without Matt Murray in net. Murray will be travelling to represent team OHL against the Russians, so the Soo has to play with a rookie kid in net that has very little experience. With the "C" on Nurse's jersey, the level of bounce back is on him. This Soo team was not expected to be nearly as good as they have been and Nurse deserves a lot of credit for both on and off ice leadership.
Lastly, I got a kick out of you quoting Nolan of all people. I could go on and on about how I saw first hand here in the Soo kids like Adam Foote and others evolved under a coach named......, yup...Ted Nolan. Nolan himself would say quite often when he was here that when a kid is ready, he is ready.
I think come training camp he will have a spot to lose on our pathetic back end. The teams not going to get better without him and another couple legitimate defensive additions through subtraction. This is my opposing case to those saying he should play for some other organization.
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Summary
Registered User
- Oct 13, 2009
- 658
- 28
Off topic but I can't help but think about all the Ekblad mentions here. I remember when it was exciting enough and a big longshot that we might trade for one of the top 3 or so talents in the draft, now we're perennially in the conversation to pick from the best of them. We've become the Southeast division, or Columbus.
Don't really know what to say about it, pretty sure I'm starting to tune out
Don't really know what to say about it, pretty sure I'm starting to tune out
SeriousBusiness
T.Hall da man
- Oct 5, 2003
- 3,628
- 3
I don't want him here next year unless we magically bring in a legit #1D and we can play Nurse with him, not unlike what the Preds are doing with Weber and Jones.
StoveTopStauffer
Registered User
- Apr 6, 2012
- 5,587
- 1,422
I think he should stay in the OHL next year.
Reasons to stay in the OHL:
1. This team is a mess, he should be kept away until we've creating some semblance of winning.
2. Developmental benefits.
Only reason I'd want him up next year:
1. We land a big fish Dman who could assist in his development, which is highly unlikely. Even then I may still use that an excuse to keep him in the minors 1 more year.
Since one is an incredible long shot, he should develop longer.
Reasons to stay in the OHL:
1. This team is a mess, he should be kept away until we've creating some semblance of winning.
2. Developmental benefits.
Only reason I'd want him up next year:
1. We land a big fish Dman who could assist in his development, which is highly unlikely. Even then I may still use that an excuse to keep him in the minors 1 more year.
Since one is an incredible long shot, he should develop longer.
AlowlyMcOilersfan
Comrade
- Oct 30, 2011
- 7,526
- 3
Sending him back to the O this year was the right move. If he continues to beast over the course of the whole season there then you have to have him up here next year. Really hope he can bulk up though over the next few years.
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