Would you be happy/mad at making the playoffs next season?

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I would need some context on how the team went from God awful to a playoff team in one year. Did players like Seider and Raymond become even better and start looking like foundational players? Did new players the Wings drafted make the roster and provide a big contribution towards their improvement? Did they just make the playoffs and get bounced 4-0/4-1 in the first round?

Is there a reasonable reason to believe the roster will continue to improve the following season?

Or is it just a fluke one off season where they go back to being a complete dumpster fire the following year(s)?

I'm looking at you 08-09 Columbus Blue Jackets.

Like I keep saying, a new, GOOD coach and some defensively responsible players will go a very long way with the current core players.

I think this team's core 6 of Bertuzzi, Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Vrana, and possibly Edvinsson are equal to or better than the following playoff teams cores

Carolina - Aho, Teravainen, Slavin, Svechnikov, DeAngelo, Pesce. Where they're clearly better is depth and coaching. Their 2nd and 3rd lines and 2nd defense pair are amongst the best in the league but I'd put Bertuzzi - Larkin - Raymond against their first line.
Boston - Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, McAvoy, Lindholm, Swayman. They beat Detroit in goal and team defensive depth.
Dallas - Hintz, Pavelski, Robertson, Oettinger, Heiskanen, Klingberg. Again, better defensive depth than Detroit. Better goaltending.
Los Angeles - Kopitar, Byfield, Doughty, Quick, maybe Danault? Maybe Kempe? They're getting old and their prospects aren't developing very well.

Those are also the team cores I expect to blow up in a couple of seasons. Add St. Louis, Edmonton and Toronto to that list as cap casualties in 3 seasons. Detroit will in theory have one of the better cores at that time.

 

[njx9]

Super happy. If the team legit tanks another year, you might as well figure out where to ship Larkin and how you're going to find two high-end Cs from a scouting team that won't have found any in almost a decade. I don't know that the collection of guys available as FAs this year is enough to fix the D and C spots, but I think it's time for Yzerman to give it a go.

 

[odin1981]

I’ve seen people say 1) making it next year is too soon and 2) we need more high draft picks before we compete and 3) next years draft is worth being terrible for.

I could say disappointed/upset if that is more appropriate?

I see it as a combination of 2 and 3, which is why next year with the top 3-5 picks would be disappointing.

 

[odin1981]

Everyone needs to realize that this Wings team is now too good to have a legit shot at a top-2 pick. You either start going up or stay mediocre forever.

We are going to have a healthy Vrana, a new coach, and a more experienced Seider and Raymond next year. Bert isn't going to miss every game in Canada. We also have to spend a ton of money just to hit the floor.

Time to start going up.

This team was a bottom 5 team that slightly overperformed to only being 8th worst. Of the past 6 years this is the outlier year unless we our consistent to say being a bottom 10 team over the next two years.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

This team was a bottom 5 team that slightly overperformed to only being 8th worst. Of the past 6 years this is the outlier year unless we our consistent to say being a bottom 10 team over the next two years.

With a healthy Vrana, Raymond, and Seider the Wings are not a bottom 5 team, and a 10% chance of a top-2 pick is not worth squandering Larkin's, Vrana's, Ned's, and Bertuzzi's primes.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

A lot of people aren't going to like this, but this is the point in the rebuild where you start signing free agents and trading assets for players.

With Seider and Raymond we've lucked into possibly the two best players in their drafts, and Edvinsson may become another. You can't rely on the draft forever.

I could see Yzerman packaging our first this year (if we don't win the lottery) to start patching some of our roster holes.

It's definitely a tough rebuild because every time I see a player that may worth trading for, my next thought is "who do the wings give up in a trade that would make the deal happen but doesn't end up as a net loss for the team?"

 

[wingerdinger]

A franchise as prestigious as the wings, should always compete. This lull period in our history has gone on far too long. That said I dont see the moves the club can make that'll make us compete right away in a healthy sustainable manner.

We've been bad for nearly a decade, I don't see the point in going all out this offseason, when the top 10 of next year's draft has the potential to be historically good. As much as I loathe tanking and losing, I am willing to go through one more bad year.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

This team was a bottom 5 team that slightly overperformed to only being 8th worst. Of the past 6 years this is the outlier year unless we our consistent to say being a bottom 10 team over the next two years.

Like I said in my previous post, this team's core is solid but it needs help behind it. The team's DEPTH is bottom 5 in the league. That and an absolute gauntlet of a schedul are why they cratered in the 2nd half.

If you get 2 top 4 defensemen, a 2nd line or 1b center, and a middle 6 winger then this team is massively improved.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

A franchise as prestigious as the wings, should always compete. This lull period in our history has gone on far too long. That said I dont see the moves the club can make that'll make us compete right away in a healthy sustainable manner.

We've been bad for nearly a decade, I don't see the point in going all out this offseason, when the top 10 of next year's draft has the potential to be historically good. As much as I loathe tanking and losing, I am willing to go through one more bad year.

It seems like there are 1 or 2 drafts every decade that can define the next decade of the NHL. 2003 and probably 2008 were the best drafts of the aughts. 2013 and 2015 were probably the best drafts of the 2010s. I think 2020 is going to be one of those defining drafts, and 2023 could very well be the same. There's a lot to like about it and center depth is looking incredible. The guys picked 3rd to 5th next year would probably go 1st this year. It's looking like the kind of draft that you can still get a Getzlaf, Carter, Perry, Bergeron or Richards in the middle of the 1st round.

 

[jkutswings]

Agreed.

The unfortunate reality is that when the Wings are terrible, there's multiple teams that somehow manage to be worse. It's astounding to me the team was this bad this season and there's till 7 teams that are worse. I could see one or two, maybe three, but SEVEN?!

I don't see how that's so unfortunate, considering that Detroit has a shot at coming away with a top 2-3 talent in each of the last 3 drafts, despite picking from the 6th, 4th, and 6th draft slots respectively.

Yes, drafting higher SHOULD make it easier / better. But if the execution is there regardless of draft slot, then it's a win.

 

[wingerdinger]

It seems like there are 1 or 2 drafts every decade that can define the next decade of the NHL. 2003 and probably 2008 were the best drafts of the aughts. 2013 and 2015 were probably the best drafts of the 2010s. I think 2020 is going to be one of those defining drafts, and 2023 could very well be the same. There's a lot to like about it and center depth is looking incredible. The guys picked 3rd to 5th next year would probably go 1st this year. It's looking like the kind of draft that you can still get a Getzlaf, Carter, Perry, Bergeron or Richards in the middle of the 1st round.

Yeah, it's a pathetic way to run an organization, by basing your offseason moves by the strength of next seasons draft class. But the '23 draft is looking like you said era defining. It sucks for Larkin and Bert, but how bad we were this second half dictates this strategy.

 

[raymond23]

Idk if playoffs is reasonable but I just don't want to skip watching the last quarter of the season like I have for the past 5 years. I want to look forward to watching Red Wings hockey up until game 82. So bubble team lead by a bunch of young guys would be great. Playoffs would be f***ing heaven. Can't believe I used to take the playoffs for granted

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yeah, it's a pathetic way to run an organization, by basing your offseason moves by the strength of next seasons draft class. But the '23 draft is looking like you said era defining. It sucks for Larkin and Bert, but how bad we were this second half dictates this strategy.

We won’t have to tank to get a top guy that year. Let others race to the bottom and get some better depth pieces in trades as a result.

Maybe Bedard becomes the phenom he’s expected to be. Maybe he’s a Stamkos level guy. It’d be great to get that one guy.

But I think there will be some real value later in the first with the more I hear about the draft. Leo Carlsson is the kid I’m hoping falls to Detroit.

 

[wingerdinger]

We won’t have to tank to get a top guy that year. Let others race to the bottom and get some better depth pieces in trades as a result.

Maybe Bedard becomes the phenom he’s expected to be. Maybe he’s a Stamkos level guy. It’d be great to get that one guy.

But I think there will be some real value later in the first with the more I hear about the draft. Leo Carlsson is the kid I’m hoping falls to Detroit.

Carlsson's would be a big get. Still we'll need a similar if not slightly worse record to be in his range.

 

[WF19]

The more i think about it you gotta think this is the year big changes are made. I've heard people say at least one or 2 more drafts but i don't see it. Say it's 2 more drafts, unless its a Bedard or Michov next year, When was the last time a Detroit prospect played in their draft year? I can't remember so maybe i'm wrong but for one your taking a chance on Larkin and Berts prime years and they have one year left on their contracts on top of Larkin being Stevie's man 100%, and he is done with losing. We have holes now and money to fill them until some help comes in a few years with what we have in the farm now. Even if we draft 100% centers this draft none are on the team for at least 2 maybe even 3 years so with all the money to be spent now we would we be re signing the likes of gagner's, Dekeysers? I'm sure ownership wants to see more fans in the stands and playoff revenue as well. Every chance to make it happen this offseason and it will happen.

 

[WF19]

Also, i don't think tanking is a thing anymore with us. He had 3 drafts to hopefully land 1OV which we didn't but still came out with studs. Where we finish in standings this year i think are now irrelevant. We finish were we finish and draft the best player available like they always say. We have also had 31 picks in the last 3 years more than any other team and if there is a gm that is good at acquiring picks it him so i'd think after this draft we have enough picks/prosepcts and assets to move up in the draft anyways.

 

[odin1981]

Like I said in my previous post, this team's core is solid but it needs help behind it. The team's DEPTH is bottom 5 in the league. That and an absolute gauntlet of a schedul are why they cratered in the 2nd half.

If you get 2 top 4 defensemen, a 2nd line or 1b center, and a middle 6 winger then this team is massively improved.

Who when UFA starts will actually be that and worth that for like say 5-6 years at the prices for ufa top 4 d and 1b center's? We have too many holes to abandon building through the draft. We have just one bonafide scoring line.

Next year is the best draft since Crosby's for franchise talent. There is a strong argument the #3 draft pick is still franchise changing level. Stay the course of building through the draft through 23. Their is no point to stopping after so many years when we actually have a shot at a franchise player if we pick even just top 3 not even winning.

 

[Dotter]

Wings have a few more years to go. Yzerman already said he isn't trading young talent and 1st round draft picks for vets.

We already suffer so much, lets just keep doing the rebuild right for the long term success.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Who when UFA starts will actually be that and worth that for like say 5-6 years at the prices for ufa top 4 d and 1b center's? We have too many holes to abandon building through the draft. We have just one bonafide scoring line.

Next year is the best draft since Crosby's for franchise talent. There is a strong argument the #3 draft pick is still franchise changing level. Stay the course of building through the draft through 23. Their is no point to stopping after so many years when we actually have a shot at a franchise player if we pick even just top 3 not even winning.

Dude nobody is saying abandon the draft. And I’m pretty sure the Wings will still have draft picks after signing free agents.

Here’s a list of FAs.
2022 NHL Free Agents Tracker

If you saw the Yzerman presser you’d see he isn’t happy with how things went this year. He doesn’t want to tank.

 

[Frk It]

We have too many holes to abandon building through the draft. We have just one bonafide scoring line.

It is to SUPPLEMENT building through the draft.

Next year is the best draft since Crosby's for franchise talent. There is a strong argument the #3 draft pick is still franchise changing level. Stay the course of building through the draft through 23. Their is no point to stopping after so many years when we actually have a shot at a franchise player if we pick even just top 3 not even winning.

It would be so shit to be dead last and get the 3rd pick in a draft with Bedard and you know it. And that's the most likely outcome for being dead last.

They ruined tanking people. It's what they wanted to do. They don't give a f*** if you stay at the bottom of the league forever.

 

[Frk It]

To expand on this...

A lot of you talk about a fear of being stuck in "purgatory".

I think re-building in this current landscape, purgatory is the most likely outcome regardless. If we are all just being totally honest.

You can try to improve your team and end up in purgatory. Or you can embrace being bad and end up in purgatory (or worse).

Embracing being bad and stockpiling picks and hoping you end up a winner is essentially spiting the league and what they wanted with this new lottery. They don't want you to do this and enforced a policy that reflects it.

It reminds me of a quote I saw during some of the racial injustice protests that said "the system isn't broken, it was built this way".

For me the incentivization of being bad is totally gone, so I don't get the push back on trying to improve the team. If you are telling me best case I can do is get a 44% chance at a top 2 pick, I am probably going to try to improve my team and let the chips fall where they may. I also think it is a lot harder to actually control where your team finishes than people think it is. Bad teams overachieve and good teams underachieve all the time.

 

[jkutswings]

Who when UFA starts will actually be that and worth that for like say 5-6 years at the prices for ufa top 4 d and 1b center's? We have too many holes to abandon building through the draft. We have just one bonafide scoring line.

Next year is the best draft since Crosby's for franchise talent. There is a strong argument the #3 draft pick is still franchise changing level. Stay the course of building through the draft through 23. Their is no point to stopping after so many years when we actually have a shot at a franchise player if we pick even just top 3 not even winning.

Detroit is trending to pick 10th or later next year. And they never win the lottery. So the 2023 draft could have 5 clones of Wayne Gretzky in the top 5 and it wouldn't matter, because even without a single free agent this summer the Wings won't have a shot at them.

Don't spend for the sake of spending. But it's high time to stop running the Adam Ernes and Jordan Oesterles of the world out there, and give the decent players we have a decent linemate or two.

 

[heyfolks]

First round playoff fodder or a 4% shot at getting the best player since McDavid.

I like the idea of progress but, while the odds would be low and we have less luck than Nicolas Cage in Vegas, I'd still go out with Shue at the pool!

Yeah, I am dead inside

 

[Shaman464]

To expand on this...

A lot of you talk about a fear of being stuck in "purgatory".

I think re-building in this current landscape, purgatory is the most likely outcome regardless. If we are all just being totally honest.

You can try to improve your team and end up in purgatory. Or you can embrace being bad and end up in purgatory (or worse).

Embracing being bad and stockpiling picks and hoping you end up a winner is essentially spiting the league and what they wanted with this new lottery. They don't want you to do this and enforced a policy that reflects it.

It reminds me of a quote I saw during some of the racial injustice protests that said "the system isn't broken, it was built this way".

For me the incentivization of being bad is totally gone, so I don't get the push back on trying to improve the team. If you are telling me best case I can do is get a 44% chance at a top 2 pick, I am probably going to try to improve my team and let the chips fall where they may. I also think it is a lot harder to actually control where your team finishes than people think it is. Bad teams overachieve and good teams underachieve all the time.

So, its preferable to you to go back to how the team was in 2015-16? Making the playoffs, getting their asses kicked then drafting Cholowski? Because Boston had the same number of points as Detroit that season, missed the playoffs and got a top defenseman in the draft and are a lot better off than we are right now.

 

[Frk It]

So, its preferable to you to go back to how the team was in 2015-16? Making the playoffs, getting their asses kicked then drafting Cholowski? Because Boston had the same number of points as Detroit that season, missed the playoffs and got a top defenseman in the draft and are a lot better off than we are right now.

The two leading scorers on that 15-16 team were 35 and 37 years old. I don’t see how we “go back to that” if we make the playoffs. I don’t remember having 2 players compete for the Calder back then, and having a 21 year old defenseman that hit 50 points their rookie year.

It’s almost like it’s an entirely different situation….