Worst GM in the league right now

[NJ DevLolz]

Gorton is low key bad. Worst? I don’t think so but he makes a ton of mistakes

 

[Critical13]

Dubas and Bergevin saw this poll and took it personally:

 

[Green]

Lmao.

1. A hit piece from some nobody Islanders fan on Youtube is not evidence.
2. That individual not only cherry picked quotes from statements made over multiple years, and edited out parts of those quotes that didn't fit his narrative, but he also created massively misleading sequences by taking statements and falsely editing them together as responses to completely different questions. A disgusting action that he even admits to doing.
3. There is nothing within that video that supports the blatantly false and slanderous claims you have been making.

he is a liar as the evidence in that video shows, I am aware he is on your team so you are going to defend him, but you can not watch that video and not come to the conclusion he is a liar

and there is no cherry picking, no misleading editing, that is you just you taking after your hero and lying, the questions were asked about his desire to stay on the Islanders and the answers were given

 

[Dekes For Days]

he is a liar as the evidence in that video shows

Nothing in that video shows him to be a liar. It shows him to be a human who had normal, changing feelings and situations over a multi-year period for a tough decision that would affect his career and life of himself and his family for the foreseeable future. You've somehow twisted "I like it here, I hope it will work out" into "I'LL BE HERE FOREVER! NO MATTER WHAT, GUARANTEED! I PROMISE TIMES INFINITY!!!", and then used your own incorrect interpretation to make false claims about him and slander his name.

and there is no cherry picking, no misleading editing, that is you just you taking after your hero and lying

The whole video is cherry-picking, and misleading editing. FFS, the no-name toxic Islander fan who made the video even admitted it:

where JT says "I didn't want to go to a team and feel like the team had to subtract what they had" that is not in response to the question preceding it (from Stan Fischler). This was an editing mistake in a rush to get this out, I understand it is somewhat misleading

You don't have evidence of anything you've claimed.

 

[Green]

Nothing in that video shows him to be a liar. It shows him to be a human who had normal, changing feelings and situations over a multi-year period for a tough decision that would affect his career and life of himself and his family for the foreseeable future. You've somehow twisted "I like it here, I hope it will work out" into "I'LL BE HERE FOREVER! NO MATTER WHAT, GUARANTEED! I PROMISE TIMES INFINITY!!!", and then used your own incorrect interpretation to make false claims about him and slander his name.

The whole video is cherry-picking, and misleading editing. FFS, the no-name toxic Islander fan who made the video even admitted it:

You don't have evidence of anything you've claimed.

no you are twisting it, dozens of times Tavares talked about "I want to remain an Islander, I have not thought about playing anywhere else" and when asking about if he is going to be a Leaf in the future he said "I would not count on it"
the evidence is overwhelming Tavares had no desire to be an Islander his last year on the team, and was basically dragging them along for whatever reason, and one can speculate on the many reasons such as needing the Islanders to be dragged along so the Leafs could pay as much as possible, or by his own words being afraid he could have got traded to the Leafs and they would have to give up assets for him

 

[DropTheGloves]

I don't think he's the worst, but Ken Holland has to be bottom five. Trades, signings, roster management, you name it- he's made at least one terrible decision in each aspect despite only being on the job in Edmonton 1.75 years. The team is, not surprisingly, no further ahead than when he got here.

I pray with each passing day that Katz kicks him into a President or whatever role so that a GM born after the reign of the dinosaurs can take over, but I'm not optimistic that happens anytime soon.

 

[Dekes For Days]

no you are twisting it, dozens of times Tavares talked about "I want to remain an Islander, I have not thought about playing anywhere else" and when asking about if he is going to be a Leaf in the future he said "I would not count on it"

The only one twisting things here is you. Tavares did like being an Islander, and he was focused on playing there, so that's what he said when asked. In 2016, when he was asked that question about Toronto in jest, moving to Toronto 2 years later (and joining what was at that point a last place team) was likely not something he was seriously considering.

News flash: stances and feelings change over time, especially with changing situations, and new opportunities. Islanders had just had a horrible season, and had constant management, attendance, and arena problems. Toronto was interested in him, were a team on the rise, and Dubas made a great presentation selling him on joining the team and some of the best young players in the game. After tons of consideration by him and his family, he made a decision. The decision being different from what you wanted to happen does not make him a liar.

the evidence is overwhelming Tavares had no desire to be an Islander his last year on the team, and was basically dragging them along for whatever reason

There is zero evidence of this; all evidence suggests the opposite. You'd think you'd have more respect for somebody who gave so much to your team.

and one can speculate on the many reasons such as needing the Islanders to be dragged along so the Leafs could pay as much as possible, or by his own words being afraid he could have got traded to the Leafs and they would have to give up assets for him

You're twisting his words, just like the video did (and admitted to), and your speculation is based on nothing. Your claim doesn't even fit with what happened - Islanders didn't even offer the most money, and Tavares ended up taking millions less than he was offered, to sign in Toronto. Somehow you're attempting to argue that Tavares was simultaneously trying to protect Toronto and stick it to them at the same time. Your claims are all over the place, and completely baseless.

 

[Green]

The only one twisting things here is you. Tavares did like being an Islander, and he was focused on playing there, so that's what he said when asked. In 2016, when he was asked that question about Toronto in jest, moving to Toronto 2 years later was likely not something he was seriously considering.

News flash: stances and feelings change over time, especially with changing situations, and new opportunities. Islanders had just had a horrible season, and had constant management, attendance, and arena problems. Toronto was interested in him, were a team on the rise, and Dubas made a great presentation selling him on joining the team and some of the best young players in the game. After tons of consideration by him and his family, he made a decision. The decision being different from what you wanted to happen does not make him a liar.

There is zero evidence of this; all evidence suggests the opposite.

You're twisting his words, just like the video did (and admitted to), and your speculation is based on nothing. Your claim doesn't even fit with what happened - Islanders didn't even offer the most money, and Tavares ended up taking millions less than he was offered to sign in Toronto. Somehow you're attempting to argue that Tavares was simultaneously trying to protect Toronto and stick it to them at the same time. Your claims are all over the place, and completely baseless.

you literally have no idea what you are talking about, if anything the changes made to the Islanders in Tavares final season should have made him more inclined to stay, Tavares talked about how much he wanted to stay an Islander before the changes in his final year when they were in a much worse situation than his final year which the following things happened:
1) Mat Barzal, he came out of nowhere, before Barzal it was basically Tavares and a bunch of mediocre players, than they get a phenom 2C almost fall in their laps, did Tavares re-sign? of course not
2) they announced the new arena in Belmont and Islanders would be playing games back in Nassau, people speculated Tavares hated the Brooklyn thing and perhaps uncertainty about the future, but again during this he talked about how much he wanted to remain an Islander, surely the new arena in Belmont and the games back in Nassau would make him sign ASAP? of course not
3) Islanders get one of the greatest GM's of all time in Lou Lamoriello, again Tavares talked about how much he wanted to remain an Islander when they had a back up goalie as a GM who was gifted the job by an owner who barely knew the rules of hockey, did Tavares re-sign? of course not
4) Barry Trotz, only the 2nd time in NHL history did a Stanley Cup winning coach leave for another team after winning the cup, did John immediately re-sign? of course not

and as far as the money, that should prove he was not serious and it was all a charade to make the Leafs pay up, had it looked like Tavares and the Islanders were at a dead end (like him getting traded) people would be speculating wildly about him going to the Leafs and I am guessing the Leafs would be aware of this and try and call John's bluff and only offer him 9.5 Million a year or something knowing they had to pay their young guns.

 

[snowkiddin]

You aren't the only one, although I wouldn't say he's the worst.

They've accomplished almost nothing though with a lot of the main pieces teams need to be really good in this league. They always seem to underachieve.

I also think that Laine for PLD trade isn't going to look great in a few years, and that'll be another of his bad moves.

It seems fairly likely that PLD will sign long-term here whereas Laine wouldn’t so it’s already a win for Winnipeg.

If Columbus retains Laine, they win too.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It seems fairly likely that PLD will sign long-term here whereas Laine wouldn’t so it’s already a win for Winnipeg.

If Columbus retains Laine, they win too.

The fact that Laine isn't re-signing long-term with Winnipeg and Winnipeg had to put themselves in a position where they are trading Laine for a worse player is not something to ignore in this equation.

 

[Dekes For Days]

if anything the changes made to the Islanders in Tavares final season should have made him more inclined to stay

It's not just changes made by the Islanders; it's changes in the entire situation surrounding it. Humans are allowed to change their minds as they get new information and opportunities, and it doesn't make them liars. You're also massively overselling the changes (not all of which were positive), and some of them came as little as a week before he signed. Too little too late after a decade of mismanagement, especially when better opportunities (like Toronto) present themselves and become possibilities.

and as far as the money, that should prove he was not serious and it was all a charade to make the Leafs pay up, had it looked like Tavares and the Islanders were at a dead end (like him getting traded) people would be speculating wildly about him going to the Leafs and I am guessing the Leafs would be aware of this and try and call John's bluff and only offer him 9.5 Million a year or something knowing they had to pay their young guns.

That's completely illogical. If it proves anything, it's that he seriously considered staying an Islander, consistent with what he said all along. The only real downside of being traded would have been closing that door, and he valued keeping that door open over a chance at the cup and additional leverage in negotiations.

Leafs weren't even thought of as the most likely destination if he didn't re-sign with the Islanders. It was only when he announced who he was meeting with that people thought of it as a real possibility, and even then, most still made fun of Leaf fans for thinking it. He ended up taking much less money than he was offered, in order to sign with Toronto, so the idea that he was somehow "doing it for the money" is completely baseless, like everything else you've said. There's nothing abnormal about his resulting contract.

You have no evidence to support your slanderous claims. All you have is baseless speculation from your incredibly biased perspective. That is not near enough to accuse somebody of being a liar.

 

[Advanced stats]

139 people accidentally voted for Dubas instead of Jim Benning.....

An honest mistake I'm sure considering they're next to eachother in the poll options.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The only one twisting things here is you. Tavares did like being an Islander, and he was focused on playing there, so that's what he said when asked. In 2016, when he was asked that question about Toronto in jest, moving to Toronto 2 years later (and joining what was at that point a last place team) was likely not something he was seriously considering.

News flash: stances and feelings change over time, especially with changing situations, and new opportunities. Islanders had just had a horrible season, and had constant management, attendance, and arena problems. Toronto was interested in him, were a team on the rise, and Dubas made a great presentation selling him on joining the team and some of the best young players in the game. After tons of consideration by him and his family, he made a decision. The decision being different from what you wanted to happen does not make him a liar.

Before Tavares signed with Toronto there was Zach Pariase who said the same things about staying in New Jersey and he ended up leaving as a UFA to sign with Minnesota. However people seem to think Tavares is the first player in NHL history with comments like that and the truth is he's not.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

My money is on that guy in Pittsburgh. He hasn’t done anything since he was named GM!

 

[Byron Bitz]

There has already been one of those threads.

Is Tavares worth his contract? | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League (mandatory.com)

So it's true that the Leafs haters claim how Tavares only wanted to play in Toronto 1 year before he signed with them and Dubas deserves no credit for signing him.

However when things are going wrong Dubas gets the blame saying how he overpaid to sign him.

Tavares, Brodie and Simmonds all chose to sign in Toronto for the same reasons. They grew up die hard Leaf fans, there is a good role for them and the team is ready to compete for the cup. Not because some dude made a good pitch to them.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Tavares, Brodie and Simmonds all chose to sign in Toronto for the same reasons. They grew up die hard Leaf fans, there is a good role for them and the team is ready to compete for the cup. Not because some dude made a good pitch to them.

Tavares did say it was the pitch from Dubas that helped with his decision. So it was never a 100% guarantee that was going to happen.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

Two years ago, the Toronto Maple Leafs sat down with Steven Stamkos, but, by their own admission, blew it. “Within two minutes,” one member of the organization later said, “we knew we’d lost him.”

That presentation focused on “the hometown boy’s return” and “this is how you can make even more money by playing in Toronto.” It was, by all accounts, a total whiff. This time, they were determined to avoid the previous mistake. “The focus for us with John was only on hockey,” Dubas told the 31 Thoughts podcast last July. “That was the major thing that we wanted our focus to be…. ‘Here’s who we are as a hockey team,’ and ‘Here’s who we are as a program to help you reach your potential.’ ‘Here’s what we do on the development side.’

“If you rewind it [to] two years ago, we were going in and saying, ‘Here’s what we are going to become,’ and ‘Here’s what we intend to be,’ so it was trying to sell them on what we intended to be as an organization that had just finished in last place and picked first overall, versus now in 2018…. It was much easier…. To me, it has to be always about hockey. The periphery stuff that comes with playing in whatever market it is, that’s up to the player and his representative in terms of what he does and doesn’t want to do.”

Toronto pushed hard on the practical reasons for Tavares to come — the talent in the organization; the young core of Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander. But the Maple Leafs also pulled some emotional strings.

So far, the video shown to Tavares remains private. But Dubas says they didn’t show Tavares with the Maple Leafs winning the Stanley Cup or holding a parade.

Besides being a Leafs fan growing up if it was that easy wouldn't Steven Stamkos have also signed with Toronto in July 2016?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Tavares, Brodie and Simmonds all chose to sign in Toronto for the same reasons. They grew up die hard Leaf fans, there is a good role for them and the team is ready to compete for the cup. Not because some dude made a good pitch to them.

Well, why stop there? If we just arbitrarily claim that everything that Dubas has done doesn't count, we can call him a bad GM. Great success!

 

[RogerR]

Tavares, Brodie and Simmonds all chose to sign in Toronto for the same reasons. They grew up die hard Leaf fans, there is a good role for them and the team is ready to compete for the cup. Not because some dude made a good pitch to them.

I think it's clear Dubas did a lot of work and did give the best pitch. He worked harder than any GM it seems to sign a UFA. Damn well directed a HOllywood production.

 

[Green]

It's not just changes made by the Islanders; it's changes in the entire situation surrounding it. Humans are allowed to change their minds as they get new information and opportunities, and it doesn't make them liars. You're also massively overselling the changes (not all of which were positive), and some of them came as little as a week before he signed. Too little too late after a decade of mismanagement, especially when better opportunities (like Toronto) present themselves and become possibilities.

That's completely illogical. If it proves anything, it's that he seriously considered staying an Islander, consistent with what he said all along. The only real downside of being traded would have been closing that door, and he valued keeping that door open over a chance at the cup and additional leverage in negotiations.

Leafs weren't even thought of as the most likely destination if he didn't re-sign with the Islanders. It was only when he announced who he was meeting with that people thought of it as a real possibility, and even then, most still made fun of Leaf fans for thinking it. He ended up taking much less money than he was offered, in order to sign with Toronto, so the idea that he was somehow "doing it for the money" is completely baseless, like everything else you've said. There's nothing abnormal about his resulting contract.

You have no evidence to support your slanderous claims. All you have is baseless speculation from your incredibly biased perspective. That is not near enough to accuse somebody of being a liar.

Ha "Leafs were not even thought of as the most likely destination if not for the Islanders" you are funny, pathological lying must be a thing there, and as said it was not about the money it was about getting Toronto to give as much as they could, had he been honest or even not lied people would be speculating wildly about him going to Toronto and they would have offered like 9.5×7 max or something, him lying I am sure got him an extra million per or something.

 

[Green]

Tavares did say it was the pitch from Dubas that helped with his decision. So it was never a 100% guarantee that was going to happen.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

Haha yes Dubas reminded him he was born and raised in Toronto and his parents sent Dubas an old photo of him in his Leafs bedsheets to use in his presentation to pull at his heart strings to try and convince him to stay, I am sure that is what did it

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ha "Leafs were not even thought of as the most likely destination if not for the Islanders" you are funny, pathological lying must be a thing there, and as said it was not about the money it was about getting Toronto to give as much as they could, had he been honest or even not lied people would be speculating wildly about him going to Toronto and they would have offered like 9.5×7 max or something, him lying I am sure got him an extra million per or something.

I have not lied. Tavares has not lied. The only one not telling the truth here is you. Leafs were not thought to be the most likely destination if not for the Islanders, especially before the meetings. There is zero evidence that Tavares was trying to get "Toronto to give as much as they could"; that argument is illogical, and all evidence directly refutes that. Tavares was honest throughout, and gave a lot to the Islanders franchise. There is no reason Tavares would have gotten so little in UFA; his contract is perfectly reasonable, and he was offered millions more per year by a different franchise altogether.

You have accused Tavares of lying and slandered his name throughout this thread, and you have based that entirely on your wildly incorrect and biased personal speculation - not any actual evidence. It's been years - it's time to move on.

 

[Green]

I have not lied. Tavares has not lied. The only one not telling the truth here is you. Leafs were not thought to be the most likely destination if not for the Islanders, especially before the meetings. There is zero evidence that Tavares was trying to get "Toronto to give as much as they could"; that argument is illogical, and all evidence directly refutes that. Tavares was honest throughout, and gave a lot to the Islanders franchise. There is no reason Tavares would have gotten so little in UFA; his contract is perfectly reasonable, and he was offered millions more per year by a different franchise altogether.

You have accused Tavares of lying and slandered his name throughout this thread, and you have based that entirely on your wildly incorrect and biased personal speculation - not any actual evidence. It's been years - it's time to move on.

I base it on his words, I base it on common sense

 

[LeafsNation75]

I base it on his words, I base it on common sense

So than I guess Zach Parise lied to the Devils fans when he originally said how he wanted to re-sign with them and it never happened. However let's go with this theory that John Tavares is the first UFA who has done that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So than I guess Zach Parise lied to the Devils fans when he originally said how he wanted to re-sign with them and it never happened. However let's go with this theory that John Tavares is the first UFA who has done that.

I mean, most players in general who approach UFA and get these type of questions about it have said the same things. I'm not sure how some take it as some sort of guarantee that they're staying.

Like I get fans being sad that he left; that's valid. But we're coming up on 3 years later, and for somebody to still be going around slandering his name and making false claims about him solely because they didn't like the outcome... that's going too far.

 

[Favin]

Peter Chiarelli (if he comes back), Jeff Gorton, Doug Wilson