GWT: World Cup - Group B (England and USA Advance)

[cgf]

Yeah which is my point. Teams that would blow the US out dispatch teams on a lower level far easier.

Not saying I think Denmark would "blow out" the US, though I do think they would be comfortable favorites...but match ups don't work like that. A team can outplay spain (xG Spain 0.61-1.13 Germany) after losing to a team that lost to the same Costa Ricans that Spain destroyed.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

The only two teams I think would walk all over the United States right now are Brazil and France.

Don't get me wrong, I think a fair few others would be favored, but not for a blow out.


And England was in the finals. What happened when they played the US?

That’s my point. That’s why making these sweeping conclusions on the back of one isolated match of your choosing makes no sense.

I’ll take the zoomed out view and make the call.

England is definitely a better team than the US, full stop. And they are also massively underachieving with a brain dead manager.

I can’t fathom looking at this US team and thinking only those two teams would “walk over” (beat easily?) them, but YMMV. Oh sorry, I didn’t keep readin… we’re on the same page.

 

[willy702]

The only two teams I think would walk all over the United States right now are Brazil and France.

Don't get me wrong, I think a fair few others would be favored, but not for a blow out.


And England was in the finals. What happened when they played the US?

The world has caught up to the teams at the top. Almost anyone in the 16 has a chance to win their match no matter who they play. Winning four more matches is a major challenge for the US and many others but no one is in a position to walk over an opponent at this stage.

 

[Live in the Now]

Not saying I think Denmark would "blow out" the US, though I do think they would be comfortable favorites...but match ups don't work like that. A team can outplay spain (xG Spain 0.61-1.13 Germany) after losing to a team that lost to the same Costa Ricans that Spain destroyed.

Yeah I’m only responding to the blown out part. I lump all those kinds of teams into the same tier honestly. Either you’re a favorite or you’re mid pack or you stink. The mid pack teams don’t blow each other out ever unless they quit trying.

 

[bluesfan94]

Yeah I’m only responding to the blown out part. I lump all those kinds of teams into the same tier honestly. Either you’re a favorite or you’re mid pack or you stink. The mid pack teams don’t blow each other out ever unless they quit trying.

And that mid pack tier has grown in both directions IMO

 

[cgf]

Yeah I’m only responding to the blown out part. I lump all those kinds of teams into the same tier honestly. Either you’re a favorite or your mid pack or you stink. The mid pack teams don’t blow each other out ever unless they quit trying.

Just like not all favorites are the same, not all midtier teams are the same, and they most certainly do blow each other out every tournament. There's tiers to it and matchups / energy / emotions can matter more than tiers on a given night.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Spain rarely has a world class striker and yet won a Cup scoring just 8 goals including 4 1-0 wins. .

That Spain team had arguably two world class strikers though - 5/8 of those goals came from one guy. I think it's honestly a compelling case for how you can have all the game control in the world but you still need the guy to score the 1 in a 1-0 win.

Also, Denmark would be favourites against the US, but it would not be a foregone conclusion.

 

[bluesfan94]

Just like not all favorites are the same, not all midtier teams are the same, and they most certainly do blow each other out every tournament. There's tiers to it and matchups / energy / emotions can matter more than tiers on a given night.

Has there been a blow out of two midtier teams yet?

 

[cgf]

Has there been a blow out of two midtier teams yet?

At this tourney? Don't think we've had one yet.

EDIT:
Maybe croatia-canada if we got super pedantic about Croatia not being a favorite and Canada not being terrible, so both would technically count as midtier teams?

 

[StargateSG1]

Yeah I don’t see that at all. Denmark completely sucks going forward. They played one of the teams full of those kinds of try hards I make fun of and they couldn’t score.

Denmark beat France twice in this years Nations League...
They are not a bad team and certainly not worse than USA.
Just the facts, it's a much bigger picture than 1 tournament with 3 games played so far.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Non-Americans just want USA to be worse than they are. They aren't a top team, but they can hang. If they played Denmark 10 times, Denmark may do a bit better but it wouldn't be a blowout. They're mainly just older and more experienced, where the USA will be in 4 years when the World Cup is played in North America.

Our whole team either plays in Europe or in the MLS where their salary is on par with a solid European salary.

Turner (EPL), Dest (Serie A), Robinson (EPL), Ream (EPL), Adams (EPL), Musah (La Liga), McKennie (Serie A), Aaronson (EPL), Reyna (Bundesliga), Pulisic (EPL), Weah (Ligue 1). They're not world-class but they're not scrubs.

With how low scoring international soccer is, they can certainly hang with *almost* anybody and put up a fight. As evident by the fact that they drew and looked even on the field with England.

Their lack of ability to do anything on set pieces is their biggest killer right now. The midfield, however is a big strength, lots of speed and athleticism, makes them a tough out.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Not saying I think Denmark would "blow out" the US, though I do think they would be comfortable favorites...but match ups don't work like that. A team can outplay spain (xG Spain 0.61-1.13 Germany) after losing to a team that lost to the same Costa Ricans that Spain destroyed.

I think the argument is our guys would have a tough time scoring. But athletically Denmark would be at a pretty big disadvantage. Honestly one of the things that stood out when we were playing England and they have more to offer in that department. I do think dead balls would be big for Denmark in that game as a strategy. But from run of play it would be difficult with the pace of the midfield closing and taking away space.

I will say since it is far more likely if this game were to take place it would be happening in 2026 where I think you will be at a massive disadvantage in this game. With the way the draws are staking up we will see, but seems unlikely we meet.

For what it is worth, I don't think this is a uncommon sentiment among US fans, it always seems around Denmark or whatever current bottom of the top 10, high early teens team the US fans feel we should be there. I know that perception isn't always right, we are kind of hopeful this current generation makes that a true thing in my opinion.

There is also the man I wish we had a good coach element that always scares me. Bunker defending when it isn't your strength and not putting on Reyna and De La Torre to have options that could relieve pressure is stuff we did on my U-14 team to see out games. That it eludes Berhalter is beyond annoying. I hope either way we have a different coach next cycle. I will deal with the downsides of Berhalter beating the Dutch means extension because I hope we can do it and I think it will be huge to the 2026 narrative entering the tournament and hype for the event as a host.

 

[Live in the Now]

Denmark beat France twice in this years Nations League...
They are not a bad team and certainly not worse than USA.
Just the facts, it's a much bigger picture than 1 tournament with 3 games played so far.

Yeah I’m not saying anyones bad. That’s my point. Bad teams wind up not getting any results in two games and get dumped. The middle tier of teams is obviously growing. We started the round with only two teams completely eliminated because of this. The US gets blown out by the favorites but not all the time and not by the other teams. Saturday will show that.

 

[bluesfan94]

At this tourney? Don't think we've had one yet.

EDIT:
Maybe croatia-canada if we got super pedantic about Croatia not being a favorite and Canada not being terrible, so both would technically count as midtier teams?

Yeah, that was the one I was thinking, but I think Canada is at the bottom end of the mid pack tier and Croatia at the top end, if you must call them both midtier teams.

 

[Live in the Now]

Yeah, that was the one I was thinking, but I think Canada is at the bottom end of the mid pack tier and Croatia at the top end.

Canada is on the bottom tier even though they have some good players. The age of some of the other players they used is indicative of this. But that’s ok they won’t be there forever.

 

[WarriorofTime]

That’s my point. That’s why making these sweeping conclusions on the back of one isolated match of your choosing makes no sense.

I’ll take the zoomed out view and make the call.

England is definitely a better team than the US, full stop. And they are also massively underachieving with a brain dead manager.

I can’t fathom looking at this US team and thinking only those two teams would “walk over” (beat easily?) them, but YMMV. Oh sorry, I didn’t keep readin… we’re on the same page.

They won two other games in blowouts sandwiched in between a very evenly played draw with USA.

Maybe give USA a bit more credit than just repeating the English media narrative that the manager (who last I checked has achieved better results than anyone else in 50 years in England) is a just some stupid idiot?

 

[adsfan]

The danes are playing poorly, but so is the US. If Denmark advances they're a better team.

The US should have defeated Wales 1-0 but for the boneheaded defensive play with a few minutes left.

The US went toe-to-toe with England for 90 minutes. You know, the country that invented the game.

The US dominated Iran today. They had a goal called back or it would have been 2-0. At one point, the US had 11 shots, 4 on goal and one of those went it. Iran had 2 shots and NONE were on goal.

Two draws and a win for 5 points; with no losses. Has your vision been checked recently?

There is no way that the US has played "poorly". They have a young and inexperienced team, but they advanced.

The US has nothing to lose against the Netherlands, which makes the US dangerous in the next match. If the Dutch don't show up ready to play, they will go home. I don't expect that to happen, but it could.

 

[Live in the Now]

They won two other games in blowouts sandwiched in between a very evenly played draw with USA.

Maybe give USA a bit more credit than just repeating the English media narrative that the manager (who last I checked has achieved better results than anyone else in 50 years in England) is a just some stupid idiot?

He is a stupid idiot. Our team is pretty decent though.

 

[WarriorofTime]

He is a stupid idiot. Our team is pretty decent though.

Because the Media says so? Got England to the Final 4 of the 2018 WC, got England to the Final (and came down to Penalties) in the last Euros.

But sure, any stupid idiot would have won both of those, just cuz, nevermind that England had done f*** all for generations before he got there (including a so-called "Golden Generation" that never got nearly as far)

 

[bluesfan94]

They won two other games in blowouts sandwiched in between a very evenly played draw with USA.

Maybe give USA a bit more credit than just repeating the English media narrative that the manager (who last I checked has achieved better results than anyone else in 50 years in England) is a just some stupid idiot?

To be fair, Southgate does suck. The English have more talent than they've had in a long time.

Iran had 2 shots and NONE were on goal.

This can't be true because Turner had a save on a looping header and on the ball where Iran thought they deserved a penalty.

 

[WarriorofTime]

To be fair, Southgate does suck. The English have more talent than they've had in a long time.

He is conservative in his approach to tournament football, which pisses people off when they 0-0 teams like Scotland and USA that the fans want to pummel for pride, but it's effective for what he's trying to do. Southgate sucking is one of those circlejerk opinions not really backed up by reality. England has a talented squad, yes, but it's not materially better than the rest of the big soccer producing nations.

 

[bluesfan94]

He is conservative in his approach to tournament football, which pisses people off when they 0-0 teams like Scotland and USA that the fans want to pummel for pride, but it's effective for what he's trying to do.

Right. He has a team whose strength is its attacking and midfield talent and he tries to win every game with Harry Maguire.

 

[Live in the Now]

Because the Media says so? Got England to the Final 4 of the 2018 WC, got England to the Final (and came down to Penalties) in the last Euros.

But sure, any stupid idiot would have won both of those, just cuz, nevermind that England had done f*** all for generations before he got there (including a so-called "Golden Generation" that never got nearly as far)

I dunno because I watch these guys every week and he picks the wrong players?

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Because the Media says so? Got England to the Final 4 of the 2018 WC, got England to the Final (and came down to Penalties) in the last Euros.

But sure, any stupid idiot would have won both of those, just cuz, nevermind that England had done f*** all for generations before he got there (including a so-called "Golden Generation" that never got nearly as far)

Really planting your flag here, but the take on Southgate is pretty universal outside the English FA. He’s negative, clueless, and for sure holding back England’s best generation in years.

If you want to believe the US is on their level on the back of that draw, I won’t stop you.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Really planting your flag here, but the take on Southgate is pretty universal outside the English FA. He’s negative, clueless, and for sure holding back England’s best generation in years.

If you want to believe the US is on their level on the back of that draw, I won’t stop you.

never said that

anyways this is a total aside, just said USA had a good performance and deserves a bit more credit than "well if USA was able to play them close, that MUST mean Southgate is a stupid idiot because USA is obviously horrible"

I don't feel particularly strongly about Gareth Southgate as a Manager so I'll stop bringing him up