Player Discussion With how many goals will Jake Virtanen end the 2018-19 season?

[PavelBure10]

Has all the tools, but never could put it all together. If he cant score, then you would expect him to use his body and throw his weight around, he rarely does that. It is what it is, but Virtanen turned out to be a very disappointing player.

 

[Fatass]

Has all the tools, but never could put it all together. If he cant score, then you would expect him to use his body and throw his weight around, he rarely does that. It is what it is, but Virtanen turned out to be a very disappointing player.

McCann is looking to be the better player. Oh, of course Jimmy traded him.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Jake had a shot of hitting 20 if he didn’t get injured. His overall game has improved, hoping he continues his progression and has a break out season next year.

 

[Fatass]

Has all the tools, but never could put it all together. If he cant score, then you would expect him to use his body and throw his weight around, he rarely does that. It is what it is, but Virtanen turned out to be a very disappointing player.

What would we get for him now? I wonder if packaging Jake with our coming first rounder might move us up a few spots in round one, like from 10 to 5?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Jake had a shot of hitting 20 if he didn’t get injured. His overall game has improved, hoping he continues his progression and has a break out season next year.

I would argue that his overall game has not improved as far as scoring goals and offense goes.

 

[sting101]

I love how people want to summarise what Jake is as a player when he's 22 yrs old.

Tom Wilson at 22 .....82gp 7g 12a 19pts and heavily criticized

Jake looks disinterested is it because the team is out of it? Self preservation? Doesn't care? Ribs still sore and the games mean nothing maybe?

It sucks having to make excuses.... he is not a cerebral player in any way and his intensity level is lackluster. Continues to play his way off the top6, looks gassed way too early in his shifts and unwilling to push the pace with his tremendous leg drive....its extremely frustrating and dissappointing no doubt when you can see what he's capable of.

Next year is his year. No excuses....contract year and we should be more of a playoff contender if we can have some kind of decent health luck. As we all know he's not gonna be what we hoped for but he can be a very important player and can produce 20+.

If next year mirrors this then i doubt the Canucks commit long term and look to make room for Zach MacEwen to play 3RW its all on Jake.

 

[PavelBure10]

It's also risky to trade him, so young. Power forwards take a little longer to mature. I remember another home grown power forward from Comox B.C. who was about the same age when he was traded. It turned out to be the worst trade in franchise history.

I agree with the above poster. Next year is make or break.

 

[Fire Benning]

Next time he gets on a hot streak I'm looking to sell high on him for a defenseman.

 

[Canucks1096]

Jake had a shot of hitting 20 if he didn’t get injured. His overall game has improved, hoping he continues his progression and has a break out season next year.

Sure he had a shot to hit 20 but not a very good shot. He had 4 goals in his last 40 games before he got Injured. His shooting percentage came back down earth. Man now people are using the injured card to make excuses for Virtanen.

Defensive side of the things, I will admit he has improve. He doesn't make any major mistakes out there and he can play some tough mins.

Offensively he hasn't improve at all. This year he has 23 points in 63 games. 4 of those are empty net points and 2 power play points. 17 points even strength with a goalie in the net. Last year 20 points in 75 games. I believe he only had 1 empty net point. 19 even strength points in 75 games with a goalie in the net. Not much difference.

Main difference this year he can play important mins to get empty net points and he has some power player mins.

Considering the fact he plays more minutes now and half of the season he was on the top 2 lines. You can make an argument he got worst offensively. But I won't go there, I would just say he hasn't improve offensively.

 

[Canucks1096]

It's also risky to trade him, so young. Power forwards take a little longer to mature. I remember another home grown power forward from Comox B.C. who was about the same age when he was traded. It turned out to be the worst trade in franchise history.

I agree with the above poster. Next year is make or break.

There is this mythe since day 1 that Virtanen is some power forward. I am not sure where this mythe came for. Virtanen never ever plays like a power forward. Not even in the WHL, In Junior a lot of his goals were just skating the puck up ice and letting go wrist shot.

In the nhl Virtanen skates the puck up ice and lets go a long shot or go behind the net. Power forwards take pucks to net, Virtanen doesn't do that. All power forwards are good infront of the net especially on the pp. Virtanen never played that role before.

Anyway your examples is about 33 years ago. Don't think there is too much to worry about

 

[Disappointed EP40]

I love how people want to summarise what Jake is as a player when he's 22 yrs old.

Tom Wilson at 22 .....82gp 7g 12a 19pts and heavily criticized

Jake looks disinterested is it because the team is out of it? Self preservation? Doesn't care? Ribs still sore and the games mean nothing maybe?

It sucks having to make excuses.... he is not a cerebral player in any way and his intensity level is lackluster. Continues to play his way off the top6, looks gassed way too early in his shifts and unwilling to push the pace with his tremendous leg drive....its extremely frustrating and dissappointing no doubt when you can see what he's capable of.

Next year is his year. No excuses....contract year and we should be more of a playoff contender if we can have some kind of decent health luck. As we all know he's not gonna be what we hoped for but he can be a very important player and can produce 20+.

If next year mirrors this then i doubt the Canucks commit long term and look to make room for Zach MacEwen to play 3RW its all on Jake.

At 22 most players have narrowed down their careers.

For every Tom Wilson there's 100+ Taylor Pyatts.

 

[sting101]

At 22 most players have narrowed down their careers.

For every Tom Wilson there's 100+ Taylor Pyatts.

Regular Season	Playoffs	Vitals
#	Player Name	Pos.	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	Birthplace	Age
22	Daniel Sedin	L	82	41	63	104	32	30	25	9	11	20	32	Sweden: Ornskoldsvik	29
33	Henrik Sedin	C	82	19	75	94	40	26	25	3	19	22	16	Sweden: Ornskoldsvik	29
17	Ryan Kesler	C	82	41	32	73	66	24	25	7	12	19	47	MI: Livonia	26
26	Mikael Samuelsson	R	75	18	32	50	36	8	11	1	2	3	8	Sweden: Mariefred	33
5	Christian Ehrhoff	D	79	14	36	50	52	19	23	2	10	12	16	Germany: Moers	28
14	Alexandre Burrows	R	72	26	22	48	77	26	25	9	8	17	34	PQ: Pincourt	29
21	Mason Raymond	L	70	15	24	39	10	8	24	2	6	8	6	ALTA: Cochrane	24
23	Alexander Edler	D	51	8	25	33	24	13	25	2	9	11	8	Sweden: Ostersund	24
27	Manny Malhotra	C	72	11	19	30	22	9	6	0	0	0	0	ONT: Mississauga	30
13	Raffi Torres	L	80	14	15	29	78	4	23	3	4	7	28	ONT: Toronto	28
36	Jannik Hansen	R	82	9	20	29	32	13	25	3	6	9	18	Denmark: Rodovre	24
2	Dan Hamhuis	D	64	6	17	23	34	29	19	1	5	6	6	BC: Smithers	27
3	Kevin Bieksa	D	66	6	16	22	73	32	25	5	5	10	51	ONT: Grimsby	29
10	Jeff Tambellini	R	62	9	8	17	18	10	6	0	0	0	2	ALTA: Calgary	26
15	Tanner Glass	L	73	3	7	10	72	-5	20	0	0	0	18	SASK: Regina	26
6	Sami Salo	D	27	3	4	7	14	-3	21	3	2	5	2	Finland: Turku	35
4	Keith Ballard	D	65	2	5	7	53	10	10	0	0	0	6	MN: Baudette	27
41	Andrew Alberts	D	42	1	6	7	41	0	9	0	0	0	6	MN: Eden Prairie	29
20	Chris Higgins 1	L	14	2	3	5	6	0	25	4	4	8	2	NY: Smithtown	27
29	Aaron Rome	D	56	1	4	5	53	1	14	1	0	1	37	MAN: Brandon	26
	Alexandre Bolduc	C	24	2	2	4	21	1	3	0	0	0	0	PQ: Montreal	25
38	Victor Oreskovich	R	16	0	3	3	8	1	19	0	0	0	12	ONT: Whitby	24
35	Cory Schneider	G	25	0	3	3	0	0	5	0	0	0	0	MA: Marblehead	24
1	Roberto Luongo	G	60	0	3	3	2	0	25	0	0	0	0	PQ: Montreal	31

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This was the greatest Canuck team of all time. How many of these players were nearly as good or better at 22? Hamhuis and Torres maybe?

Sure without the right work ethic your right he wont progress but using Taylor Pyatt who has a horrible skater as an example and suggesting a guy with Virtanen's physical traits cannot make leaps in development is foolish.

If this team makes steps and he plateus next year when his entire career earnings and job are in question then i will concede he's likely in need of at very least a change of scenery but writing off a guy when just one season ago couldn't be relied upon to take a regular shift is being foolishly impatient

 

[Canucks1096]

Regular Season	Playoffs	Vitals
#	Player Name	Pos.	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	Birthplace	Age
22	Daniel Sedin	L	82	41	63	104	32	30	25	9	11	20	32	Sweden: Ornskoldsvik	29
33	Henrik Sedin	C	82	19	75	94	40	26	25	3	19	22	16	Sweden: Ornskoldsvik	29
17	Ryan Kesler	C	82	41	32	73	66	24	25	7	12	19	47	MI: Livonia	26
26	Mikael Samuelsson	R	75	18	32	50	36	8	11	1	2	3	8	Sweden: Mariefred	33
5	Christian Ehrhoff	D	79	14	36	50	52	19	23	2	10	12	16	Germany: Moers	28
14	Alexandre Burrows	R	72	26	22	48	77	26	25	9	8	17	34	PQ: Pincourt	29
21	Mason Raymond	L	70	15	24	39	10	8	24	2	6	8	6	ALTA: Cochrane	24
23	Alexander Edler	D	51	8	25	33	24	13	25	2	9	11	8	Sweden: Ostersund	24
27	Manny Malhotra	C	72	11	19	30	22	9	6	0	0	0	0	ONT: Mississauga	30
13	Raffi Torres	L	80	14	15	29	78	4	23	3	4	7	28	ONT: Toronto	28
36	Jannik Hansen	R	82	9	20	29	32	13	25	3	6	9	18	Denmark: Rodovre	24
2	Dan Hamhuis	D	64	6	17	23	34	29	19	1	5	6	6	BC: Smithers	27
3	Kevin Bieksa	D	66	6	16	22	73	32	25	5	5	10	51	ONT: Grimsby	29
10	Jeff Tambellini	R	62	9	8	17	18	10	6	0	0	0	2	ALTA: Calgary	26
15	Tanner Glass	L	73	3	7	10	72	-5	20	0	0	0	18	SASK: Regina	26
6	Sami Salo	D	27	3	4	7	14	-3	21	3	2	5	2	Finland: Turku	35
4	Keith Ballard	D	65	2	5	7	53	10	10	0	0	0	6	MN: Baudette	27
41	Andrew Alberts	D	42	1	6	7	41	0	9	0	0	0	6	MN: Eden Prairie	29
20	Chris Higgins 1	L	14	2	3	5	6	0	25	4	4	8	2	NY: Smithtown	27
29	Aaron Rome	D	56	1	4	5	53	1	14	1	0	1	37	MAN: Brandon	26
	Alexandre Bolduc	C	24	2	2	4	21	1	3	0	0	0	0	PQ: Montreal	25
38	Victor Oreskovich	R	16	0	3	3	8	1	19	0	0	0	12	ONT: Whitby	24
35	Cory Schneider	G	25	0	3	3	0	0	5	0	0	0	0	MA: Marblehead	24
1	Roberto Luongo	G	60	0	3	3	2	0	25	0	0	0	0	PQ: Montreal	31

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This was the greatest Canuck team of all time. How many of these players were narly as good or better at 22? Hamhuis and Torres maybe?

Sure without the right work ethic your right he wont progress but using Taylor Pyatt who has a horrible skater as an example and suggesting a guy with Virtanen's physical traits cannot make leaps in development is foolish.

If this team makes steps and he plateus next year when his entire career earnings and job are in question then i will concede he's likely in need of at very least a change of scenery but writing off a guy when just one season ago couldn't be relied upon to take a regular shift is being foolishly impatient

Ballard and Higgins had their best season at age 22 or under as well. Goalies are a different animal so I won't include them. Tamb, Rome, Alberts, Bolduc, Oreskovich are fringe players. They didnt get any better at age 22.

So you decided to cherry pick and just focus on skating and physical traits. His physical traits? Aside from hitting which is an overrated stat what does he do with his physical trait that help the Canucks on the ice. Pyatt had the hands and hockey IQ to get 23 goals with the Sedins. Comparing Pyatt to Virtanen is not foolish at all.

Most high picks from draft+5 you know what type of player you are getting with him. Go check on to hockey db and see for yourself. There is a reason a lot of people like to use that argument on why it is bad idea to trade picks for Vey or Baer because by 22/23. Most likely they are a finished product already.

Offensively Virtanen hasn't gotten better since day 1.

Let me ask you this

Tell me some players that had 19 points in a full ahl season that developed into a top 6 F?

Tell some players that went three straight years without scoring more than 20 points that became a top 6 F?

Both are not many.

I said this so many times. It's Virtanen sexy skating that is tricking some people in think he is some future top 6 F.

I think you are indicating Virtanen has good work ethics? Give me some examples on why he has a good work ethics?

 

[timw33]

Virtanen hasn't put up numbers commensurate with his draft position since his draft season. His D+1, only going PPG and having a significant G/GP rate drop on a very good Hitman team, was a bit of a disappointment. Sure he had shoulder surgery leading into that year...but that surgery was a known entity when he was drafted which makes management look even worse.

 

[4Twenty]

Jake plays nothing like Tom Wilson. So tired of that garbage comparison (no offense).

Wilson even without being productive was excellent along the wall, down low, on the cycle....these are areas Jake has never been good at and still isn't.

Jake is the same player he was at 19, I know it sucks to say, but his game really hasn't changed at all.

 

[mossey3535]

IMO he came in almost right away with a better way of playing the game. Head is up, looking for plays, no blind or desperation plays.

But he hasn't progressed since the season started, any in-roads he made seemed to be from off-season work. I know lots of people disagree but I don't think he's being coached correctly on this team, and then he gets deployed incorrectly in the actual games.

 

[Fatass]

IMO he came in almost right away with a better way of playing the game. Head is up, looking for plays, no blind or desperation plays.

But he hasn't progressed since the season started, any in-roads he made seemed to be from off-season work. I know lots of people disagree but I don't think he's being coached correctly on this team, and then he gets deployed incorrectly in the actual games.

Heard a lot that Jake is better offensively when he’s on left wing.

 

[mathonwy]

At 22 most players have narrowed down their careers.

For every Tom Wilson there's 100+ Taylor Pyatts.

Jake is no Taylor Pyatt.

 

[mathonwy]

IMO he came in almost right away with a better way of playing the game. Head is up, looking for plays, no blind or desperation plays.

But he hasn't progressed since the season started, any in-roads he made seemed to be from off-season work. I know lots of people disagree but I don't think he's being coached correctly on this team, and then he gets deployed incorrectly in the actual games.

I don't think Travis has done a terrible job with the crap that he's been given..

However,

Jake Virtanen (and Olli Juolevi) are the two major wild cards on this team in terms of how far along we are to being relevant again.

If there is a remote possibility that coaching is to blame for Jake's non-progress this season, shouldn't we be looking at a new coach to address this exact reason?

Based on Jake's potential, I think it be worth at least considering it.

 

[Krnuckfan]

Jake is no Taylor Pyatt.

Why not? Both guys are big but don't play up to their size, drafted high in the draft, who have gone on to become major disappointments who don't live up to their draft positions.

Pyatt scored 0.33ppg for his career. Virtanen is at 0.28 ppg for his career.

I highly doubt coaching is the issue. The problem always has been his poor offensive IQ. I have seen zero improvement in his offensive arsenal over the years.

 

[strattonius]

I don't think Travis has done a terrible job with the crap that he's been given..

However,

Jake Virtanen (and Olli Juolevi) are the two major wild cards on this team in terms of how far along we are to being relevant again.

If there is a remote possibility that coaching is to blame for Jake's non-progress this season, shouldn't we be looking at a new coach to address this exact reason?

Based on Jake's potential, I think it be worth at least considering it.

Firing a coach based on the possibility he has ruined a players development? That makes zero sense to me. Creating a carousel of coaches is confusing in determining a teams identity.

I say we fire a coach if hes doing a bad job. So far its a reach to criticize Green's performance. This roster is awful.

 

[vancityluongo]

Next time he gets on a hot streak I'm looking to sell high on him for a defenseman.

Philly probably isn't down, but Philippe Myers please

 

[mathonwy]

Why not? Both guys are big but don't play up to their size, drafted high in the draft, who have gone on to become major disappointments who don't live up to their draft positions.

Pyatt scored 0.33ppg for his career. Virtanen is at 0.28 ppg for his career.

I highly doubt coaching is the issue. The problem always has been his poor offensive IQ. I have seen zero improvement in his offensive arsenal over the years.

I consider them different players because they have completely opposite temperaments and I consider temperament an important factor to consider in a player's development curve.

Jake is headstrong, stubborn, confident/arrogant and passive aggressive.

Taylor, based on my observation of his time with the Canucks, was none of the above.

 

[me2]

Jake plays nothing like Tom Wilson. So tired of that garbage comparison (no offense).

Wilson even without being productive was excellent along the wall, down low, on the cycle....these are areas Jake has never been good at and still isn't.

Jake is the same player he was at 19, I know it sucks to say, but his game really hasn't changed at all.

Sadly he's turned into a perimeter waterbug that throws 2 or 3 really big hits a year.

 

[mossey3535]

Travis hasn't exactly blossomed as a great head coach, nevermind what I think about how he's handled Jakey.