With Crosby and Malkin’s success does Jagr deserve to have his number retired?

[HandshakeLine]

Ha I see a statue as a bigger thing than jersey retirement and should only be for Lemieux.

Statues can be pretty stupid. The Steven Foster Memorial one comes to mind.

 

[Goodbahd]

Jagr won’t get his number retired before Crosby and Malkin, that’s how I see it. But he should eventually...

 

[HandshakeLine]

I feel like I'm only posting in two threads today, but in the end what does retiring a number do that making a walk of fame or whatever doesn't?

And again, who seriously is going to take 68 ever again? That, for better or worse, is going to be Jagr's number, especially here.

Edit: And as an addendum, the 68 number that Jagr picked was no accident. It was to protest the 1968 Soviet-led invasion of Czechoslovakia that led to his grandfather's death, so I doubly think that nobody else in the NHL should ever use it, especially since Jagr's the last generation of Czech hockey players to remember the old totalitarian system.

 

[EightyOne]

The minute after this game ended he earned a jersey retirement imo.

Holy God....could they skate SLOWER? I don't remember the game being so slow just twenty years ago. Wow.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Holy God....could they skate SLOWER? I don't remember the game being so slow just twenty years ago. Wow.

Watching games from the 90s feels like someone put the wrong tape speed on the playback.

 

[Turin]

I don’t really buy that logic. I hate communism as much as the next sane-person but there are so many things you could protest in history that the league would run out of numbers if you applied that standard evenly.

 

[Deas]

Watching games from the 90s feels like someone put the wrong tape speed on the playback.

I sometimes feel this opinion is exaggerated. These clips doesn't shock me regarding the skating pace.

The page linked below lists all the fastest skater winning times in the allstar game since 92. That's 27 entries. 8 out of 27 entries are from the 90's, and 5 of those 8 are in the top 10. The highest in 5th place only, but still the 90's entries are very much over representated in the top 10.

Now obviously phyisical capcity in a free skate lap is not automatically translated to a dead sure indicator of skating speed in actual games the same year. Of course. But it's an interesting fact still, in my opinion.

NHL All-Star Skills Competition - Wikipedia

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don’t really buy that logic. I hate communism as much as the next sane-person but there are so many things you could protest in history that the league would run out of numbers if you applied that standard evenly.

There's really not that many numbers with that significance, though. 89 maybe for Czechs, Slovaks, East Germans, and the hockey hotbed of Romania. 56 if you're Hungarian or from Poznan, Poland. Maybe 1917 if you're a Leninist?

1968's a pretty big one as far as the East Bloc goes.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I sometimes feel this opinion is exaggerated. These clips doesn't shock me regarding the skating pace.

The page linked below lists all the fastest skater winning times in the allstar game since 92. That's 27 entries. 8 out of 27 entries are from the 90's, and 5 of those 8 are in the top 10. The highest in 5th place only, but still the 90's entries are very much over representated in the top 10.

Now obviously phyisical capcity in a free skate lap is not automatically translated to a dead sure indicator of skating speed in actual games the same year. Of course. But it's an interesting fact still, in my opinion.

NHL All-Star Skills Competition - Wikipedia

There's outliers, sure. Bure was amazing, Jagr was a great skater before his groin exploded, Lemieux was deceptively fast, even in 1996.

I don't think skaters were all that much slower in the 90s, but there were lots of games where nobody could get up to speed through the neutral zone because of the trap and obstruction. That's the major difference.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I've long said that one of this club's greatest traditions is not retiring a lot of numbers, just one tragic case and one insanely legendary one, both of whom spent their entire tenure with the club. But some people want to be just like every other Velveeta lame-ass hocket club.

Keep the retired number club exclusive.

I agree with keeping it exclusive. I just think Jagr makes the cut. Sure it seems like a lot of players after you add Jagr, Sid, and Geno, but that's what happens when you're lucky enough to get 4 generational talents on the same team.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I agree with keeping it exclusive. I just think Jagr makes the cut. Sure it seems like a lot of players after you add Jagr, Sid, and Geno, but that's what happens when you're lucky enough to get 4 generational talents on the same team.

I know, I'm just a hipster elitist snob about my players I guess.

If it's not one of the unquestionable top 3 of all time, I don't want to hear it.

 

[Still Apps]

Nah. Unequivocally pristine Penguins only for me- Mario, Sid and Geno. Jags'll get his accolades when he enters the HOF; let 'em retire his number in Washington, Philly, or New York.

 

[Turin]

There's outliers, sure. Bure was amazing, Jagr was a great skater before his groin exploded, Lemieux was deceptively fast, even in 1996.

I don't think skaters were all that much slower in the 90s, but there were lots of games where nobody could get up to speed through the neutral zone because of the trap and obstruction. That's the major difference.

The elite skaters aren’t that much better, but the bottom six and defenders are so incredibly far ahead of where they were on average.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The elite skaters aren’t that much better, but the bottom six and defenders are so incredibly far ahead of where they were on average.

Yeah, that's another aspect of it, which is why everyone went to dead-puck tactics for so much of the 90s.

As one of those hypothetical matchups that will never happen, I'd love to see how the average 4th lines in the league stack up against 4th lines from 1998. (Or bottom pairings.)

 

[Mrs Crosby's Dryer]

Empahtically no!

I guess I wouldn’t be opposed to him being added to the Ring of Honor (Carlyle should be there too), but the way he dissed this franchise after his “play for Mario” comments and then went to the scumbag Flyers shows his true character.

Also, I agree with a few others that retiring a jersey should be reserved for players who’ve only played for one team (99 being the only exception) for their entire career.

 

[Gurglesons]

There's outliers, sure. Bure was amazing, Jagr was a great skater before his groin exploded, Lemieux was deceptively fast, even in 1996.

I don't think skaters were all that much slower in the 90s, but there were lots of games where nobody could get up to speed through the neutral zone because of the trap and obstruction. That's the major difference.

It isn’t even the trap. It’s the red line. You couldn’t build up speed.

 

[pokey10]

I feel ya, Shady. I really get your argument and I'm sympathetic to it, to a degree. But I think, honestly, that's part of the price worth paying if the Pens keep high standards regarding numbers. I like us being the hated elitist snobs of the NHL because, well, let's face it-- we're spoiled and rightly so. Most other clubs (especially non-Original 6s) would have retired several dozen of our alumni already.

Jagr is going to be controversial no matter whether or not you retire him. And similarly, I really don't think anyone is going to wear 68 in this club ever again, at least not in my lifetime.

Ho-sang might make a bid for #68

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

What did jagr really do for the pens? Win some individual awards? And be a cancer?

 

[Ogrezilla]

A cancer?

 

[HandshakeLine]

A cancer?

At least he's not a Scorpio.

 

[Beau Knows]

Slightly off topic, but because of the absurd level of stars this team has had the requirements for having a jersey retired should be extremely high.

Some teams have some really pathetic jerseys in their rafters: Bourque in Colorado, Linden in Vancouver. For Pittsburgh it should just be 66, 87, 71 and maybe 68. Fleury, Letang or anyone like that just don't belong with that group, put em in the ring of honor.

 

[bathroomSTAAL]

I dunno, I think it's possible to take the "we only retire the numbers of legends" thing too far. So you have to be in the top 30 players to ever play to get your number retired?

I'd give serious consideration to Fleury and Tanger. 3 Cups with one team is a rare rare feat.

 

[turd]

Jagr is the second best player to ever play for the Pens. He should have his number retired, no questions asked.

 

[WesMantooth]

Yes retire his number, then bring him back into the organization as a conditioning coach, or better yet he can replace Bob Errey as color commentator. We all need more Jagr in our lives.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Jagr is the second best player to ever play for the Pens. He should have his number retired, no questions asked.

4th best.

I'm using Stanley Cups a a benchmark along with stats (so you don't throw Chris Kunitz in there) .