With Crosby and Malkin’s success does Jagr deserve to have his number retired?

[Gurglesons]

One of my favorite things about our franchise is the lack of retired numbers.

Obviously, that goes hand in hand with our lack of early success, but still. Jagr was my favorite player growing up, I was heart broken when he left and eventually got over it while I still somewhat resent him for the Flyers move in 2012.

That being said, the Penguins retired number has been reserved for truly unique situations. Crosby and Malkin obviously will be retired they back to back’d while winning another cup and in terms of post season success have had far more than Jagr and Lemieux.

My question is does this taint Jagr’s Legacy? Obviously a fantastic player, crazy good moments like the Devils goal, the Hawks goal and the dominance of the late ‘90s and early 2000s, but he also had tons of attitude issues.

With the way Sid and Geno have represented this team in the past 10 or so years have they made a player (an equal honestly) like Jagr irrelevant in terms of team accolades?

Personally, I’m mixed. But when it comes down to it Lemieux, Crosby and Malkin were Penguins no matter what Sid and Geno do moving forward. Jagr was someone who played for the Penguins. In my opinion, he doesn’t deserve it.

Click to read more...

 

[molon labe]

What gets me is what gets most of us - the sheer number of teams he has played for and the whole Flyers thing. Guess we could case-study hall of fame players in different sports and try to find something similar...? Randy Johnson, Brett Favre, Karl Malone, Johnny Unitas... others?

One thing I want to make less ambiguous, is that going forward - the way Sid and Geno have carried themselves and the team SHOULD be the standard. I like the lack of retired numbers too, and don't want it to be ALL about a few seasons of great success.

 

[orby]

I say yes, on the basis that it already IS functionally retired. No Penguin is ever gonna wear 68 again. Why not make it official? I get the argument that he played for many teams, not just the Penguins, but idk if that's a strong enough reason for me to oppose retiring the number.

 

[Ugene Magic]

One thing about retired numbers is they should play their entire career with said team.

 

[Spirit of 67]

His number should be retired based on his own merit.

It should have nothing to do with other players.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

He'd be a first ballot hall of famer even if you just took his career with the Penguins, only 3 players (Lemieux, Howe and Gretzky) won more Art Ross trophies than he did while in a Penguins uniform. Retire his number.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

He played more than half of his career elsewhere so no.

It would be no even if Sid and Geno weren't Sid and Geno.

Guys like Letang and Fleury probably mean more to the organization and most fans and I am not even sure I would retire their numbers.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

As far as personal accomplishments go, only Mario and arguably Sid have had better runs as Penguins. He's arguably the best winger of all time and best Euro player of all time. 1st ballot HOF.

Retiring his # as a Penguin should be as much of a lock as Sid and Geno.

Every time this question is asked i can't help but think the posted is 20 years old and has never seen him play as a Penguin. He was more dominant and productive than even Sid in his prime.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

As far as personal accomplishments go, only Mario and arguably Sid have had better runs as Penguins. He's arguably the best winger of all time and best Euro player of all time. 1st ballot HOF.

Retiring his # as a Penguin should be as much of a lock as Sid and Geno.

Every time this question is asked i can't help but think the posted is 20 years old and has never seen him play as a Penguin. He was more dominant and productive than even Sid in his prime.

I saw him and loved him, but when people think Jagr, they do not automatically think Penguins. Sid, Geno and Lemieux, yup.

Retiring a number is not just about performance (Jagr has that covered and then some), but also about what the player means to the franchise. I do not think Jagr, as a player and especially as a person, means that much to the franchise anymore.

 

[Al Smith]

One thing about retired numbers is they should play their entire career with said team.

I don’t know. That’s tough in this day and age. How would you not retire 99 or 7 if you’re in edmonton or 77 if you’re in Boston (I know 99 is retired league wide, but it’s also retired in Edmonton).

 

[Winger for Hire]

66-68-87-71 (21 because of special circumstances, of course) are the only numbers that should be hanging in the rafters at PPG. All four of those players have had multiple seasons as Penguins were they were considered the best in the league. All 4 have hardware cabinets that entire organizations would salivate for. All four have at different times strapped the team to their backs and said, "Guys, I got this" and then dismantled almost everything in front of them.

Yes, Jagr is deserving of the honor of having his number retired in Pittsburgh. In his 11 years in Pittsburgh, he reached the highest of highs in both team honors and player honors. In his other 13 years he played well, had some stellar seasons, but nothing like the 11 year stretch of 1990 to 2001. Those 11 years were transcendent.

Plus, how can you give someone their own peanut butter and then refuse to retire his number?

 

[The Shovel Penguin]

If I'm not mistaken, Mario was supportive of it. I say yes.

 

[Pens1566]

Can't bring myself to do it. Is he still dying alive? On top of that, he played majority of his career elsewhere. His accomplishments while here were primarily individual, and not team/franchise related. Yeah, he was on the cup teams. But there were several non-Mario players that were more vital to those wins than 68 and we're not retiring their #s.

 

[dr robbie]

I easily think he should. What he did afterwards didn't negate what he did while he was here. 5 Rosses, 2 Cups, Pearson, Hart. He was the bright spot of our team when Lemieux was out. He's a legend. He's going to retire with the second most points in league history. He's a Pittsburgh legend. He should have his number retired here without question. I could care less about the Flyers thing. And I don't blame him for feeling like he's "dying alive" on a crappy Pens team during the lean years.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

I saw him and loved him, but when people think Jagr, they do not automatically think Penguins. Sid, Geno and Lemieux, yup.

Retiring a number is not just about performance (Jagr has that covered and then some), but also about what the player means to the franchise. I do not think Jagr, as a player and especially as a person, means that much to the franchise anymore.

It's true he never led the Penguins to any significant success. But to be fair, in his prime they were on the verge of bankruptcy. During Mario's retirement Jagr was the entire team. He didn't have a supporting cast until Kovy came along, and Straka and Lang emerged.

Still, to this point Jagr has spent 1 less season in Pittsburgh than Sid. Won 2 cups, 4 scoring titles, 1 MVP (should have been 2 IMO). I don't think it matters what Jagr did after he left here. He became a legend in Pittsburgh and most of his significant accomplishments happened here. That should recognized just like Sid and Geno will be.

 

[Shady Machine]

He played more than half of his career elsewhere so no.

It would be no even if Sid and Geno weren't Sid and Geno.

Guys like Letang and Fleury probably mean more to the organization and most fans and I am not even sure I would retire their numbers.

Lol is this real? I wouldn't come close to retiring Fleury and Letang's numbers.

Jagr's number should be retired because he was a historically good player just based on his time in Pittsburgh and his whole career makes him one of the best ever to play the game.

 

[Shady Machine]

I saw him and loved him, but when people think Jagr, they do not automatically think Penguins. Sid, Geno and Lemieux, yup.

Retiring a number is not just about performance (Jagr has that covered and then some), but also about what the player means to the franchise. I do not think Jagr, as a player and especially as a person, means that much to the franchise anymore.

He means a hell of a lot to the history of the franchise, which is what retiring numbers are about. In terms of historical importance to the organization, it's

1. Lemieux
2. Sid
3. Jagr
4. Geno

 

[The Old Master]

no...didn't play here enough.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

He means a hell of a lot to the history of the franchise, which is what retiring numbers are about. In terms of historical importance to the organization, it's

1. Lemieux
2. Sid
3. Jagr
4. Geno

Geno means more than Jagr and if he doesn't NOW, he certainly will when he likely retires AS A PENGUIN!

Jagr ASKED to be traded then said some stupid "I would play for Mario for free" shit just before signing with the Flyers. Sure, he was great, perhaps even greater than even Sid, but he doesn't mean as much TO THE FRANCHISE as Sid, Mario and Geno.

Would I be outraged if they retired his number? No. I would even enjoy the ceremony and everything. Would I take the decision? Nope. I would not choose him.

 

[Winger for Hire]

If Jagr wasn't a Pen the late 90s, there would be no Pittsburgh Penguins for Sid and Geno to play for. If Jagr wasn't the dominant force carrying the Pens to the playoffs for years on one leg that bankruptcy kills the team. That 4 year dark spell, X-Generation would have been double that and maybe ongoing had Jagr not been here.

So yes, Jagr means a lot to this franchise.

He didn't save the franchise like Mario and Sid, but he made sure there was a franchise for Mario to save a second time and for Sid to carry it on.

 

[Peat]

I'm inclined to say there if there's a debate, he shouldn't be in. That's a higher standard than elsewhere but I like that.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Yes he definitely should have his number retired. But after 87/71 get their jerseys in the rafters.

 

[Gurglesons]

He means a hell of a lot to the history of the franchise, which is what retiring numbers are about. In terms of historical importance to the organization, it's

1. Lemieux
2. Sid
3. Jagr
4. Geno

I don’t see how Jagr is above Malkin tbh. What did Jagr really do in any of the cup runs / post season that is comparable to Malkin’s Conn Smythe + Conn Smythe worthy run in 2017?

That’s where the argument stems from, the Penguins don’t retire “elite” players numbers. They retire generational Penguins numbers. Jagr was a Penguin at some point. Sid and Geno regardless of where they go or what they do will be Penguins for the rest of their career and post career.

 

[Gurglesons]

If Jagr wasn't a Pen the late 90s, there would be no Pittsburgh Penguins for Sid and Geno to play for. If Jagr wasn't the dominant force carrying the Pens to the playoffs for years on one leg that bankruptcy kills the team. That 4 year dark spell, X-Generation would have been double that and maybe ongoing had Jagr not been here.

So yes, Jagr means a lot to this franchise.

He didn't save the franchise like Mario and Sid, but he made sure there was a franchise for Mario to save a second time and for Sid to carry it on.

Not sure if I agree with this. Financially, the Penguins were a mess in the ‘90s, but part of their lack of success was commuting to Jagr’s every whim in terms of linemates, coaching, and the fact when push comes to shove Jagr was the player that some want to say Ovechkin is. Selfish, singular, and about himself over the team.

He was good in the back to back runs, but honesty I’d say he was fourth or fifth best in terms of the effect he had on this team’s. Lemieux, Francis, Murphy, Barrasso, and Stevens respectively.

 

[DegenX]

The standard that has been established is only those who have played their entire professional career for the Pens have had their number retired. So no.
That's not even getting in to all the drama he was in the center of while he was here. Good on him he grew up a bit for his second time around, but it still tarnishes his time as a Pen. And, let's be honest, if the team did decide to retire his number, what are the odds he would even bother to show up?

Also, where is @HandshakeLin with the local perspective?