Speculation: Winnipeg Jets Jacob Trouba Possible Trades

[ps241]

I did a little exercise yesterday. I skimmed through all the teams looking for potential trades for Trouba. It was just a quick overview not a rigorous study. A team would have to have the cap space, the parts to return for him and a reasonable need. If they didn't have the cap then the trade would have to involve salary adjustment. I wasn't even making notes so I won't try to pass on any specifics. The thing was that there were not many really good landing spots. In fact there were no clean, straightforward, 1 for 1, win-win deals that jumped out at me.

Trading Trouba for honest value and getting our needs met would be very difficult. We would almost certainly have to accept a small loss of one sort or another in order to get it done. That might take the form of taking back a salary dump or it might be by adding some asset. It would quite likely have to involve more than 1 player on each side.

I'm not talking any one specific trade here. Just generalizing after having looked at every team in the league with a superficial knowledge of what they have and what they might want. It was an interesting exercise and a little sobering.

Then even when you get a trade combination what are the odds of finding a willing partner? That is probably why GM's talk all the time but so few hockey trades happen. Welcome to Chevy's world I guess.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

And I think you're under-rating TOI with a strong defensive partner.

I'm not following you here at all. Where are we going?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Then even when you get a trade combination what are the odds of finding a willing partner? That is probably why GM's talk all the time but so few hockey trades happen. Welcome to Chevy's world I guess.

If you get the right combination you should have a willing partner because you are looking for someone who needs what you have and has what you need. But because you think he needs what you have doesn't guarantee that he will agree. It is a lot easier making trades here than it is in the real world. It seems to me that our amateur trades are a little like trying to level a chair by cutting a little off one leg. We keep adding another piece to get the value right first to one side, then the other. Then we get into trying to solve other team's cap problems so they can trade with us. Add more pieces.

 

[Thai jet*]

Just?

You disagree that our arguably 2nd best d-man shouldn't be playing on the 1st pair with Buff and receiving more TOI than our other dmen? Why do you disagree with this? Is it just the off-hand issue?

Well playing the off side may be trivial to you, Chevy and Maurice but Rob Blake and Babcock disagree:
“We talked about what makes us the best team and we really felt that going into this tournament we wanted to have as close to a balance of right and left-shot players as possible,†Armstrong said.

They followed the guidance of Rob Blake, a management member and right-shooting Hall of Fame defenceman who stressed the difficulties of shifting from right to left, especially in a short tournament. Babcock felt it was also important in close games.

Right-shooting candidates such as Nashville’s P.K. Subban and Pittsburgh’s Kris Letang were left on the sidelines. Other prospective left-shooters, Calgary’s Mark Giordano and T.J. Brodie, were also passed over.

From N.P.

 

[Thai jet*]

Amateur Hour

they want to keep both. how can you misunderstand a 1 sentence answer. they want myers and they want trouba.

Therein lies the problem. 5 years of making our LD weaker (Jonny O. & Ron H.) and worried about keeping our over stacked RD in-tacked

 

[ffh]

Therein lies the problem. 5 years of making our LD weaker (Jonny O. & Ron H.) and worried about keeping our over stacked RD in-tacked

the solution to that problem is not to trade myers for a prospect. that will not fly with the players in the locker room. so unless you can find a ld with 10 years experience making 3.5 mill for the next 3 years that isn't about to change. I will just take Maurice at his word that they talked about it and and have some ideas on how to make it all work.

 

[KingBogo]

Therein lies the problem. 5 years of making our LD weaker (Jonny O. & Ron H.) and worried about keeping our over stacked RD in-tacked

These guys were both UFA's. They turned Johnny O into a nice return and they should have done the same for Hainsey. Both were available after the season to the highest bidder in which ever market they wanted to play in. Every year there are LHD available on the UFA market if you want to pay retail with term. Assuming Winnipeg is a market they are willing to play in.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I'm not following you here at all. Where are we going?

You tell me - you were the one that took issue with my statement that I thought Trouba should play LD with Buff on the 1st pairing. I get your argument that TOI isn't that much different, but I still think you have to maximize his TOI 5v5. That pairing looked very, very good together, and Enstrom - Myers makes for a nice 2nd pairing.

Well playing the off side may be trivial to you

I don't recall ever having said that it's trivial.

 

[sipowicz]

You tell me - you were the one that took issue with my statement that I thought Trouba should play LD with Buff on the 1st pairing. I get your argument that TOI isn't that much different, but I still think you have to maximize his TOI 5v5. That pairing looked very, very good together, and Enstrom - Myers makes for a nice 2nd pairing.



I don't recall ever having said that it's trivial.

No way is Trouba a 1st pairing D man, even him as a 2nd pairing D man on a playoff team is debatable...

 

[YWGinYYZ]

No way is Trouba a 1st pairing D man, even him as a 2nd pairing D man on a playoff team is debatable...

He certainly has 1st pairing metrics. So ... way.

 

[Aavco Cup]

No way is Trouba a 1st pairing D man, even him as a 2nd pairing D man on a playoff team is debatable...

It already happened once

 

[Thai jet*]

Sorry, Don't Agree

These guys were both UFA's. They turned Johnny O into a nice return and they should have done the same for Hainsey. Both were available after the season to the highest bidder in which ever market they wanted to play in. Every year there are LHD available on the UFA market if you want to pay retail with term. Assuming Winnipeg is a market they are willing to play in.

It sure seemed at the time that Chipman did not want the union guy back. Jonny got thrown under the bus by his coach that later got laughed out of the league so doubtful how wanted to sign back up.

 

[ffh]

It sure seemed at the time that Chipman did not want the union guy back. Jonny got thrown under the bus by his coach that later got laughed out of the league so doubtful how wanted to sign back up.

so what you're saying is you're not sure chipman wanted the union guy back and you're not sure the pizza man would sign here either.

 

[ps241]

No way is Trouba a 1st pairing D man, even him as a 2nd pairing D man on a playoff team is debatable...

Buff is a strong #1 so Trouba can easily play in the #2 spot next to him and it worked quite nicely last season. I say just roll that pair while the top 4 are all healthy and then let the rest sort itself out. Toby and Myers work well together too so its not like this is rocket science. The issue will be if they keep dealing with Stu as a lock on the roster because he can't really play bottom pairing without Trouba. Any two of Postma, Chairot, and Morrissey (IMO) could comfortably form a very functional bottom pair with sheltering.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You tell me - you were the one that took issue with my statement that I thought Trouba should play LD with Buff on the 1st pairing. I get your argument that TOI isn't that much different, but I still think you have to maximize his TOI 5v5. That pairing looked very, very good together, and Enstrom - Myers makes for a nice 2nd pairing.



I don't recall ever having said that it's trivial.

When did I do that?

With our current roster that's exactly were he should play. With an improved, better balanced roster is another story but we don't have that.

 

[CaptainChef]

the solution to that problem is not to trade myers for a prospect. that will not fly with the players in the locker room. so unless you can find a ld with 10 years experience making 3.5 mill for the next 3 years that isn't about to change. I will just take Maurice at his word that they talked about it and and have some ideas on how to make it all work.

Not sure what you are getting at with the revolt of the players trading Myers for a LD prospect that is ready to play. It isn't as if Myers is that good, nor that we have no other good RHD. I'd be overjoyed if they traded Myers + for a promising LHD on an ELC but ready to play.

Sure there may be some growing pains as there will be with Morrissey & with a lot of the good young F prospects we are ready to start, but we're not needing to field a team who can win it all this year. A bunch of decent vets & a bunch of young guns all coming of age at the same time in 2-3 years; that's how you win a Stanley Cup.

 

[Dampland]

As a non-Jets fan, I think the 1st and 3rd potential trades are pretty fair. the middle trade with the Oilers is horrible for the Jets, as RNH is severly overrated, and Nurse hasn't shown anything yet.

I think Trouba is a VERY good defensemen, but if I had the chance to get Kucherov, I would take that trade in a millisecond. having to add in Burmistrov, is a small price to pay.

As is common with every fan base, I think Trouba is a bit over-valued here by Jets fans. But I also agree you should not sell low on this guy, as he is a bonafide top-4 Dman.

 

[CaptainChef]

No way is Trouba a 1st pairing D man, even him as a 2nd pairing D man on a playoff team is debatable...

Well, I think you're off on this one Sip. Trouba will in all likelihood be a good 1st pairing D as soon as he dumps that anchor he's been saddled with. Even with that, he's more than adequate as a second pairing D.

 

[ffh]

Not sure what you are getting at with the revolt of the players trading Myers for a LD prospect that is ready to play. It isn't as if Myers is that good, nor that we have no other good RHD. I'd be overjoyed if they traded Myers + for a promising LHD on an ELC but ready to play.

Sure there may be some growing pains as there will be with Morrissey & with a lot of the good young F prospects we are ready to start, but we're not needing to field a team who can win it all this year. A bunch of decent vets & a bunch of young guns all coming of age at the same time in 2-3 years; that's how you win a Stanley Cup.

I believe this team can compete and not just for a wild card spot. and reading the central devision predictions thread so do a lot of other people. I also think the players do too and taking a step back would gut them. regardless of all this what you want can never happen. the cap space and expansion problem for the other team to deal with is unrealistic. its like us trading connor for gudas and vandevelde.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I believe this team can compete and not just for a wild card spot. and reading the central devision predictions thread so do a lot of other people. I also think the players do too and taking a step back would gut them. regardless of all this what you want can never happen. the cap space and expansion problem for the other team to deal with is unrealistic. its like us trading connor for gudas and vandevelde.

We've been talking Philly quite a lot. What is their expansion problem exactly? Right now it looks like their protected D would be Gudas, Ghost and Manning. No real need to protect Manning but they have 3 protections to use so why not?

If you disagree with the value or if you think the trade proposal fails to address the needs of either team go ahead and make that point.

Edit: Your biggest objection seems to be because trading our #4 D would be a step back. It would be a small one, for a short time. Followed by a big step forward.

I think you are more than a little optimistic believing this team can compete beyond a possible WC berth. We are going to be a very young team and that has a price. There will be a lot of rookie mistakes. IF the right player usage decisions are made we might have a shot at a WC PO spot. If they stick with the deadwood we will get another lottery ticket. But even with the right decisions contending for the SC is extremely unlikely. Maybe in another year or two but not this year. So this is the year to make a move that will pay off in the future.

 

[sully1410]

No way is Trouba a 1st pairing D man, even him as a 2nd pairing D man on a playoff team is debatable...

Oh my god. Are you kidding me? Where in the crikey **** is this coming from? These little drive by comments that are supposed to ignite some heated debate are getting really old, Sip. You have absolutely nothing to back up this crap that you post...so why bother? It brings absolutely nothing to the conversation and I would really really like to believe that you are better than that.

 

[CaptainChef]

I believe this team can compete and not just for a wild card spot. and reading the central devision predictions thread so do a lot of other people. I also think the players do too and taking a step back would gut them. regardless of all this what you want can never happen. the cap space and expansion problem for the other team to deal with is unrealistic. its like us trading connor for gudas and vandevelde.

Not at all. Its not like Myers is a piece of crap (or even close to it) nor is he making a ridiculous salary. There are teams that would gladly take on another top 4 D and give up a highly rated D (but someone who is still unproven).

Look at Philly for instance. Can't see them currently having 3 D that are in serious need of protection at the expansion, and they have a stable full of good LHD prospects that are about ready to crack the lineup. Provorov, Sanheim, Morin, Hagg, etc. Why wouldn't they part with one of those -- not likely Provorov, but certainly can't use all of those in the future & they can certainly use an experienced RHD in their lineup now

Edit: I see Mort beat me to this answer, but you get the point.

 

[sipowicz]

Oh my god. Are you kidding me? Where in the crikey **** is this coming from? These little drive by comments that are supposed to ignite some heated debate are getting really old, Sip. You have absolutely nothing to back up this crap that you post...so why bother? It brings absolutely nothing to the conversation and I would really really like to believe that you are better than that.

Well I've been hammered on Antropov, Burmistrov, Jokinen, Fehr, Tangradi, Kane, over the years and who turned out to be right on every player?

And where on god's green earth does saying Trouba isn't a sure thing top four on a good playoff team say anything but personal opinion?

Maybe I should have said; Jet's management and coaching are great, our D is great, our forwards are all great, goal tending is great to get the Sully approved seal!

 

[ffh]

Not at all. Its not like Myers is a piece of crap (or even close to it) nor is he making a ridiculous salary. There are teams that would gladly take on another top 4 D and give up a highly rated D (but someone who is still unproven).

Look at Philly for instance. Can't see them currently having 3 D that are in serious need of protection at the expansion, and they have a stable full of good LHD prospects that are about ready to crack the lineup. Provorov, Sanheim, Morin, Hagg, etc. Why wouldn't they part with one of those -- not likely Provorov, but certainly can't use all of those in the future & they can certainly use an experienced RHD in their lineup now

Edit: I see Mort beat me to this answer, but you get the point.

Somebody else posted earlier that philly has 2 rd so they have no use for myers. The big point the main point is myers and lowry is 6.7 cap hit. Sandheim is 900 k. So philly takes a 5.8 mill more cap hit. They only have 1 mill left in cap space. Should they buy some one out now.
Thats why these trades never happen its too much for 1 team to take on . It has to be equal money going back. You want to get rid of 7 mill in cap space 7 mill is coming back. Thats the way it works.

 

[CaptainChef]

Somebody else posted earlier that philly has 2 rd so they have no use for myers. The big point the main point is myers and lowry is 6.7 cap hit. Sandheim is 900 k. So philly takes a 5.8 mill more cap hit. They only have 1 mill left in cap space. Should they buy some one out now.
Thats why these trades never happen its too much for 1 team to take on . It has to be equal money going back. You want to get rid of 7 mill in cap space 7 mill is coming back. Thats the way it works.

Phillys 2 RDs are Gudas & Streit -- so ya I think they could use another top 4 RHD. And who said anything about Lowry needing to be included in that deal.

But yes I see your point about Philly being too close to the cap to consider taking 5.5 without us taking some salary back. But with Streit (5.25) or Schultz (3.9) both being UFAs at the end of this season, I'm sure a deal could be made where short-term salary comes back.