Confirmed with Link: Wings re-sign Cleary, 1 yr $1.75 MM

[SoupNazi]

if he wants a lucic you dont give him an abdelkader and a brunner, you give him a lucic end of story

Anyone who has played or even observed the game knows that a Lucic is a hard type of player to find.

 

[bababooeyII]

I cant believe my eyes. People actually fault Mike Babcock over Kenny Holland for the ROSTER decisions? My God, Kenny Holland is the VP, GM he runs everything, Babcock gives his input I'm sure, but so does everyone else. At the end of the day you have to hold Holland accountable for the roster decisions, it is the coach who creates the lineups and ice time, but the GM gives him the ingredients to make the team gel. Ken Holland has not had a creative thought or insight since 2008, he's way too conservative, doesn't trade any roster players, is overly loyal to veterans, and seems to have lost whatever edge he may have had. I hope he retires or takes Jim Devellano's job in the next few years and let new blood take over.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I am going to pull out the stats for the guys who dont get this with just an eye test lol.

Abdelkader is number three on TOI for detroit. Do I need to mention number 4? Daniel Cleary. NUMBERS NEVER LIE lol. This is 5 on 5 hockey not counting pp or pk time which we all know the kids get a ton less there.

In the playoffs nyquist got average of 12.36 cleary 16.47 and abby 16.56 toi.

regular season tatar 11.22 nyquist 13.02 cleary 16.27 and abby 14.49.

Deep stats the ones that actually matter 5 on 5 hockey.

Tatar is number one on points per game on the team has a shooting percentage of 13.04 which are SOLID NUMBERS.

Nyquist is number 10 ppg on team and has shooting percentage of 8.11.

Abby is number 8 ppg on team with shooting percentage of 8.89.

Cleary IS dead last on team in PPG and has a shooting percentage of 2.78. I mean really?

Last three games against chicago. Could go 5 but will keep it simple Yet want to say abby had most toi and 0 0 0 on point column

Abby 54.15 toi 0 goals 0 assist 0 points 8 pim. minus 1 6 shots on goal.

cleary 51.37 toi 1 goal 2 assists 3 points NO PIM minus 1 3 shots on goal.

Nyquist 33.94 toi 0 goals 1 assists 1 points NO PIM plus 1 7 shots on goal.

going to last five games just because.

abby 87.51 toi 0 goals 0 assists 0 points 14 pim even plus minus 13 shots on goal.

cleary 85.24 toi 2 goals 2 assists 4 points NO PIM even plus minus 7 shots on goal.

nyquist 56.05 toi 1 goal 1 assist 2 points NO PIM plus 1 12 shots on goal.

If this isnt an obvious mismanagement of talent I do not know what is.

Just to show truly how well NYQUIST played datsyuk 105.04 toi 1 goal 1 assist 2 points NO PIM plus minus even 13 shots on goal?

damian brunner 58.16 toi 1 goal 1 assist 2 points NO PIM plus 3 13 shots on goal.

Johan franzen toi 96.40 toi 0 goals 2 assist 2 points minus 1 2 PIM 15 shots on goal.

Henrik zetterberg 95.55 toi 1 goal 1 assist 2 points minus 1 4 pim 20 shots on goal.

Again just last five games against chicago.

The best player? Nyquist fippula had even worse stats with plenty of ice time than everyone else. Tatar had better numbers than anyone on team he is demoted for the year lol.

Nyquist had best stats in playoffs but doesnt get more time until the panic of game 7 where he gets 16.13 TOI after game six where he gets only 7.48.

The problem isnt KEN its MIKE. Babcock needs to play the right people at the right times for the right amount of time etc..

I dont have a problem with Ken I think we have had teams to win each year. Is just being mis managed during games.

No GM is perfect though yep he has made some questionable moves and some I do not like. He is not choosing the lines or ice times etc.. That is where our problem is. Until mike realizes you need a different balance and have to score to win we will not win a cup. Hopefully he gets a better mixture this year and lets some of the guys who can score do that and than plays the guys who are better defensively.

This is my only hope the problem with that is the history of NOT ALLOWING THAT TO HAPPEN. Until is too late.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Anyone who has played or even observed the game knows that a Lucic is a hard type of player to find.

hmmm "a lucic" would in the english language be used to designate the pluralization of a noun suggessting not milan lucic perse but a player like him, in this context a big, physical, grinding forward who can skate and score and is a first line style of player for which their are many

but yes their is only one milan lucic

 

[Laser Rayzor]

hmmm "a lucic" would in the english language be used to designate the pluralization of a noun suggessting not milan lucic perse but a player like him, in this context a big, physical, grinding forward who can skate and score and is a first line style of player for which their are many

but yes their is only one milan lucic

I'd like a list of these players, because by the description you gave IMO that type of player is indeed hard to find.

 

[SoupNazi]

hmmm "a lucic" would in the english language be used to designate the pluralization of a noun suggessting not milan lucic perse but a player like him, in this context a big, physical, grinding forward who can skate and score and is a first line style of player for which their are many

but yes their is only one milan lucic

Hmmm based on your own description there aren't many of those players out there.

But yes, we finally agree on one thing: there is only one Milan Lucic. And not a lot of players like him.

And for the record, I meant "a Lucic" as a type of player like him.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I'd like a list of these players, because by the description you gave IMO that type of player is indeed hard to find.

among our former division
-bickell
-backes
-horton

all three of these guys are big, north-south, use your body go to the net style of players who are all much better suited to first line minutes then abdelkader

 

[Henkka]

among our former division
-bickell
-backes
-horton

all three of these guys are big, north-south, use your body go to the net style of players who are all much better suited to first line minutes then abdelkader

Yes they are better players. We all know that.

But are they better when you compare it relatively? Are they 2-3 times better than Abdelkader with his 1.8 million?

Bickell with his 4.0 million? Backes with his 4.5 million? Horton with his 5.3 million injured shoulder.

Most people here still don't understand this value against caphit thinking.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Yes they are better players. We all know that.

But are they better when you compare it relatively? Are they 2-3 times better than Abdelkader with his 1.8 million?

Bickel with his 4 million? Backes with his 4.5 million? Horton with his 5.3 million injured shoulder.

Most people here still don't understand this value against caphit thinking.

sure but we were not talking about salary as that arguement can be said for every single player on the team couldnt it, even our more favourable players?

 

[Frk It]

Still...

Zeta - Dats - Akader
Mule - Weiss - Alfie
Gus - Andersson - Tatar
-------------------------
Then comes the rest:

Helm (injury concerns)
Cleary
Miller
Bertuzzi
Samuelsson
Emmerton
Tootoo
Eaves
.

I'll bet you 500 vcash that's not our 3rd line to start the season.

No way will Babcock start Cleary on the 4th line.

 

[Vladdy84]

among our former division
-bickell
-backes
-horton

all three of these guys are big, north-south, use your body go to the net style of players who are all much better suited to first line minutes then abdelkader

Backes is a Lucic type. That's about it.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Yes they are better players. We all know that.

But are they better when you compare it relatively? Are they 2-3 times better than Abdelkader with his 1.8 million?

Bickell with his 4.0 million? Backes with his 4.5 million? Horton with his 5.3 million injured shoulder.

Most people here still don't understand this value against caphit thinking.

Sammy/Bert/whoeversitsinpressboxwhilecollectingmillions and Abby vs. Backes.

I take Backes every time.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Yes they are better players. We all know that.

But are they better when you compare it relatively? Are they 2-3 times better than Abdelkader with his 1.8 million?

Bickell with his 4.0 million? Backes with his 4.5 million? Horton with his 5.3 million injured shoulder.

Most people here still don't understand this value against caphit thinking.

I aint gonna go get stats for the others mentioned lmao

but ABDELKADER FIRST LINE NUMBERS last three years 28 playoff games has 2 goals 1 assist and 3 points with 57 penalty minutes.

IF IS ANYONE IN HOCKEY WORST THAN THOSE STATS I WOULD BE SHOCKED.


GONNA ADD to this. Abdelkader in guys with 2000 minutes in last 3 years regular season 5 on 5 is ranked 175th in ppg and has a shooting percentage of 7.08. On detroit is 6th in toi for the three years that is seventh on the team for ppg. For guys over 1500 minutes on team he was 11th. If say helm is gone LTIR and since traded fippula would make him 9th without adding in alfie and weiss who I know are better without looking even though weiss numbers are not great. He was 7th in shooting percentage but adding alfie and weiss make him 9th. The 1500 minutes he is ranked 206th in NHL

So this means honestly abby is better than 5 guys or less who are top 6 guys in NHL? 30 teams times 6 spots 180 places? This is regular season. In playoffs he is much worse. The five guys he is tied with at 1.38 ppg per 60 all have a higher shooting percentage than him except backlund in calgary and all are NON PLAYOFF TEAMS. You cant blame this stuff on lack of production either cause he is fourth on detroit in shots during this time

HE HAS HANDS OF STONE. So yes I would pay more for a guy that has some skills at scoring and does more than take penalties at a high rate when they hurt us IE ::: The playoffs. That isnt the problem we had plenty of guys who have better scoring have proven can stay out of penalty box but none but cleary get that shot.

2010-2011 5-5 ranked 9th in ppg and 8th shooting percentage.
2011-2012 5-5 ranked 10th in ppg 9th in shooting percentage.
2012-2013 5-5 ranked 10th in ppg 10th in shooting percentage.

Cleary lol 3 years is 4th in toi 7th in ppg at 1.69 and 8th in shooting percentage. His shooting percentage has fallen off the map of reason.
2010-2011 5-5 ranked 2nd on team in ppg and 3rd in shooting percentage.
2011-2012 5-5 ranked 8th on team in ppg and 12th in shooting percentage.
2012-2013 5-5 ranked 12th on team in ppg and 12th in shooting percentage.

You take last two years for cleary and abdelkader they both got 1500 minutes against rest of league guys with that many minutes.
Cleary 120th in ppg per 60 minutes and abdelkader is 122nd. During that time is only 137 guys with that much ice time IN HOCKEY!!.

Clearys 4.70 IS THE WORST SHOOTING PERCENTAGE IN HOCKEY of the 137 guys
Abdelkaders at 7.8 is 117th out of 137 guys. No one is even CLOSE TO CLEARY. Is a point and a half above his stats.

Just FOR GIGGLES

I did 1000 TOI Abdelkader is 200th in ppg Cleary is 191st.

Last year abdelkader actually had a higher shooting percentage at 8.89 but still ranks 5-5 227th for ppg per 60 minutes.

Cleary last year 5-5 is ranked 272nd for ppg per 60 minutes. Is three guys who have a 0.00 shooting percentage another four guys under a 3.0 and 3 of those actually outshot him so that places him 271st our of 277 guys who played 400 minutes of 5-5 hockey.

So this tells you babcock IS JUST INSANE on both of these guys.

If this wasnt so devastating and SAD this would be funny.

 

[Bangarang]

Yes they are better players. We all know that.

But are they better when you compare it relatively? Are they 2-3 times better than Abdelkader with his 1.8 million?

Bickell with his 4.0 million? Backes with his 4.5 million? Horton with his 5.3 million injured shoulder.

Most people here still don't understand this value against caphit thinking.

Sammy: 3 mill, Clearly: 1.75 mill. Yep. Oh, add Bertuzzi too, if you need to.

 

[garry1221]

Uh yeah cause I think the reason we sign people like sammy and cleary etc.. is all based on babcock and not on Holland. They work hand in hand and Mike tells Ken what he NEEDS TO WIN. Mike said yesterday abby got a couple goals I was going to play cleary with datsyuk and zetterberg but now that is up in the AIR?

I like Clearys contract. I like Cleary on this team. I LIKE CLEARY AND ABBY on third and fourth lines till we get TWO GOAL LEADS lol.

To give guys like that 15 minutes or more and give tatar brunner and nyquist 8-10 IS INSANE and THAT IS THE COACH.




If you play abby on the first line for three years or second line and have options who are MUCH better scorers and PROVE that than THAT IS ON YOUR COACH NOT THE GM.

Does Babcock overvalue/overuse certain players? Yes.

If Babcock had his 'type' of player, but with the skillset to fit top six roles, would he continue to use the previously mentioned players? I'd like to believe the answer is no.

Kenny, over the past few years, deserves all the criticism thrown his way. The loyalty contracts with clauses to aging deteriorating vets in a capped era are horrible. His inability/excuses regarding trades (lack of) is pathetic.

Babcock isn't immune from criticism. Ice times for some players are definite head scratchers. Line combinations that make you ask 'what's he on and why ain't he sharing.' Again, I have to ask if some of these questions would go away if he had the right personnel.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Does Babcock overvalue/overuse certain players? Yes.

If Babcock had his 'type' of player, but with the skillset to fit top six roles, would he continue to use the previously mentioned players? I'd like to believe the answer is no.

Kenny, over the past few years, deserves all the criticism thrown his way. The loyalty contracts with clauses to aging deteriorating vets in a capped era are horrible. His inability/excuses regarding trades (lack of) is pathetic.

Babcock isn't immune from criticism. Ice times for some players are definite head scratchers. Line combinations that make you ask 'what's he on and why ain't he sharing.' Again, I have to ask if some of these questions would go away if he had the right personnel.

Look at the stats I put up. YOU CANT FIND TWO WORSE GUYS IN HOCKEY not just on the WINGS than ABDELKADER AND CLEARY the last two seasons.

They are the worst two guys on any line in detroit so THERE IS PLENTY OF OPTIONS is 3-4 guys who have better stats period. Yet not used as much. These two guys are getting top line minutes and compared to others in whole league they are the worst players. On detroit they are 10th to 12 position of choices.

I am talking FRIGGIN EMMERTON HAS MORE UPSIDE.

THAT IS JUST saying what I bolded you would like to think the ANSWER IS NO.

This is a three year saga of STUPIDITY. The last two years are ungodly bad.

CLEARY IS THE WORST PLAYER IN HOCKEY 5-5. In playoffs for top 6 abdelkader has lowest production and highest penalties I can look it up but you can bank that for the last 3 years lol.

28 games 3 points 57 PIM I think it was without looking again. Isnt like the guy is an enforcer HE JUST SUCKS.

The only guy these two outplayed the last three years was holmstrom.

So yep Ken takes some blame letting hudler go and fippula for these two is INSANE.

I went by the eye test till today and am aghast at how badly these guys are actually playing. I knew was not good.

But when your toi for two years is 1500 minutes and your 117th and 132nd overall in ppg per 60 out of 137 guys who played that much and dead last in shooting percentage for the 117th guy and 130 something for the other guy is just one of the sickest jokes I have ever seen.

When you get the scoring opportunities and your abilities FALTER THAT LOW?

You should be IN AHL OR RETIRING honestly.

This is sad. Or you should be roll players who are not top line guys for sure.

I am being kind in saying the three alternatives cause honestly what these two guys are bringing to the table tells me they dont belong in NHL at this time.

I didnt realize how bad abby was during 5-5 in regular season. I knew cleary had fallen off quite badly.

ABBY though is terrible also. His playoffs as said if is one guy with worse numbers I would be hugely surprised.

Is not like he is fighting to get all those PIM in playoffs means he cannot keep up and he is a problem. I thought his d was better than it obviously is.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Gator and Cleary do not pass the eye test or the stat test, but they do pass the "real gud" test.

Hell they probably don't even pass the smell test.

Gator as a 4th line winger is tolerable. There is just no realistic way to get rid of him.

Cleary on this team is just one big WTF? Why didn't he just retire and have the Wings hire him as, "Locker room guy"? Doesn't count against the cap and it maximizes his only positive attribute.

 

[SoupNazi]

I am talking FRIGGIN EMMERTON HAS MORE UPSIDE.

"FRIGGIN EMMERTON" is what he is. He has no more upside.

 

[Vladdy84]

Gator and Cleary do not pass the eye test or the stat test, but they do pass the "real gud" test.

Hell they probably don't even pass the smell test.

Gator as a 4th line winger is tolerable. There is just no realistic way to get rid of him.

Cleary on this team is just one big WTF? Why didn't he just retire and have the Wings hire him as, "Locker room guy"? Doesn't count against the cap and it maximizes his only positive attribute.

I share a lot of your opinions and really like your posts. But your hatred towards Gator is a bit over the top. He doesn't belong in the Top 6 by any means. But he's a solid 3rd line winger if used properly. He'll get better. If he plays with Dats and Z this season he should be able to get 15-20 goals. Just needs to stop being dumb and be more physical.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I share a lot of your opinions and really like your posts. But your hatred towards Gator is a bit over the top. He doesn't belong in the Top 6 by any means. But he's a solid 3rd line winger if used properly. He'll get better. If he plays with Dats and Z this season he should be able to get 15-20 goals. Just needs to stop being dumb and be more physical.

I admit i am over zealous in my crusade against Abdelkader, but the guy just doesn't have any offensive potential. You either got it or you dont. It's what i hate about Helm. His positive attributes are negatively effected by the fact that he has hands of stone.

If you want to put Gator on the third line, whatever. His contract and Kenny and Babcock's obsession with him pretty much means he isn't going anywhere for a very long time. Just don't put him in the top six. It's so bizarre to have a coach who handicaps his best line. Z+D doesn't give you carte blanche to put little Timmy who lost his legs during a hippo attack next to them. Why doesn't Babcock make that line even harder to play against? Another talented forward who has a scoring touch is what that line needs. You either know how to score or you don't at the NHL level. Gator will never garner any respect from opposing players, which will make it more difficult for the euro twins to function and produce.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I share a lot of your opinions and really like your posts. But your hatred towards Gator is a bit over the top. He doesn't belong in the Top 6 by any means. But he's a solid 3rd line winger if used properly. He'll get better. If he plays with Dats and Z this season he should be able to get 15-20 goals. Just needs to stop being dumb and be more physical.

Season Team League GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
2004–05 Cedar Rapids RoughRiders USHL 60 27 25 52 86 11 0 4 4 8
2005–06 Michigan State Spartans CCHA 44 10 12 22 83 — — — — —
2006–07 Michigan State Spartans CCHA 38 15 18 33 91 — — — — —
2007–08 Michigan State Spartans CCHA 42 19 21 40 107 — — — — —
2007–08 Detroit Red Wings NHL 2 0 0 0 2 — — — — —
2008–09 Grand Rapids Griffins AHL 76 24 28 52 102 10 6 2 8 23
2008–09 Detroit Red Wings NHL 2 0 0 0 0 10 2 1 3 0
2009–10 Grand Rapids Griffins AHL 33 11 13 24 86 — — — — —
2009–10 Detroit Red Wings NHL 50 3 3 6 35 11 1 1 2 36
2010–11 Detroit Red Wings NHL 74 7 12 19 61 11 0 0 0 22
2011–12 Detroit Red Wings NHL 81 8 14 22 62 5 0 0 0 2
2012–13 Detroit Red Wings NHL 48 10 3 13 34 12 2 1 3 33

If he is with datsyuk and zetterberg that means he is FIRST LINE AGAIN.
With datsyuk the guy got 10 goals his biggest year? At times he was with Henrik too. He has no upside what makes you think he can hit twenty? Only if they shoot the puck off his dammed head.


You know what is scary? At 27 this year I think abby actually has already had his best hockey days. Is sad to say but I think that is closer than a guy all of a sudden going to put it together. He was great last year in taking stupid penalties though in playoffs and putting us in bad situations.

He gets the scoring chances he has NO HANDS.

 

[Vladdy84]

I admit i am over zealous in my crusade against Abdelkader, but the guy just doesn't have any offensive potential. You either got it or you dont. It's what i hate about Helm. His positive attributes are negatively effected by the fact that he has hands of stone.

If you want to put Gator on the third line, whatever. His contract and Kenny and Babcock's obsession with him pretty much means he isn't going anywhere for a very long time. Just don't put him in the top six. It's so bizarre to have a coach who handicaps his best line. Z+D doesn't give you carte blanche to put little Timmy who lost his legs during a hippo attack next to them. Why doesn't Babcock make that line even harder to play against? Another talented forward who has a scoring touch is what that line needs. You either know how to score or you don't at the NHL level. Gator will never garner any respect from opposing players, which will make it more difficult for the euro twins to function and produce.

Ideally I'd like Dats and Z apart. If you're gonna put them together, a right handed sniper like Semin would be ideal. I'd love to see Tatar up there to be honest. Ain't happening though. I do understand why Gator is there or if Bert were to be up there for their big body/aggression/corners etc. whatever. That line needs someone that will create space and pose a threat to the other team so Dats and Z have more freedom out there. That also goes back to why the hell are they together? A lot easier to shut those two down if they're on the same line and some non-threat rummy is on the wing....

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I would love to have Bert on that line. Best option.

 

[Vladdy84]

I'm trying to be positive with Gator. He's entering his "prime" and maybe he can do well. I'm gonna allow it to play out first. If he's awful out there, I'll jump on the send this Pejorative Slury sparty back to the 4th line wagon. Bigger fish to fry my friends.

Bert when healthy is really good at times. He's not mailing it in this year IMO. He want's a Cup and likes it here. If you could rotate him and Gator on the 1st line that would be good. Bert has sick hands, can make plays and do some pretty spectacular jazz out there occasionally.

Want a good laugh?

The Windsor Star's Bob Duff offers a slightly different angle on the team's decision to re-sign Daniel Cleary, suggesting that Justin Abdelkader and Cleary may be the only players the team has who can fill a "gritty" offensive role:

Some fans of the team point to Cleary’s wonky knees and his underwhelming 9-6-15 numbers of a season ago and see the 34-year-old holding back the development of some of Detroit’s younger forwards.

Instead, the naysayers should focus on Cleary’s playoff performance last spring – four goals and six assists during the 14 most important games of the season – and recognize the value he brings to a team that while deep in forward talent, is shy in forward grit.

Cleary should just retire and run for Prime Minister of Canada. Pretty sure he would win in a landslide.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Focus on a handful of games or focus on 48 games of futility? The smart person would go with the larger sample size. Especially when the person being mentioned is on the tail end of his career. Grit is overrated if you have to sacrifice so much to get it. I don't even view Gator or Cleary as gritty. Gator is fake physical. His hits don't wear down the opposition and they don't make the opposition think about Gator or Cleary when they are on the ice. Gator can enter as many primes as he wants. He just doesn't have a scorer's touch. He might get 15ish goals, but it will be the result of pure luck. There is a reason why 50% of Gator's goals last season came from two games.

another article criticizing Holland for bringing back Cleary.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/detroit-red-wings-doing-ken-holland-201100951--nhl.html