Confirmed with Link: Wings re-sign Cleary, 1 yr $1.75 MM

[Lord Stan 2020]

Ideally I'd like Dats and Z apart. If you're gonna put them together, a right handed sniper like Semin would be ideal. I'd love to see Tatar up there to be honest. Ain't happening though. I do understand why Gator is there or if Bert were to be up there for their big body/aggression/corners etc. whatever. That line needs someone that will create space and pose a threat to the other team so Dats and Z have more freedom out there. That also goes back to why the hell are they together? A lot easier to shut those two down if they're on the same line and some non-threat rummy is on the wing....

LOL size does not create space by having a guy like abby or bert. SKILL CREATES SPACE.

DID Zetterberg hudler and fippula have size? Does MALONE or PURCELL CREATE SPACE FOR STAMKOS AND MARTY?

What sport are you watching? For power play you need a guy who will get into the net and snipers or scorers etc.. helps a lot if back end defenders can get the puck to net too. That is something detroit has been lacking for a couple of years.

But if you have the body you better have THE SKILL to use your hands at the net.

Otherwise your better off with puck possession guys who can pass and move very well.

Either puck possession control and speed create space. You got two guys great at that you have a third or fourth in cleary and abby who are just flat out WORTHLESS at it. Abby will bang the wall but more often than not he screws up and trips someone when loses the puck cause he is not that great at possession control.

Tatar would be best with zetterberg and datsyuk imo. Maybe nyquist who is better at passing and puck control but they could use a goal scorer who would go into dirty area like cleary used to be able to who has good hands at that.

Size is not all that much unless is power play. IS HEART and skill stick handling speed etc.. Than how hard you are to get off the puck etc..

Alfie weiss and franzen will be ok as second line so is no biggie to have zetterberg and datsyuk together. Is not the same as was in past. We have more skill than before a true 2nd line center so they dont need to be split necessarily.

Tatar datsyuk and zetterberg make a lot of sense to me. Second line of weiss alfie and franzen makes sense.

To put say zetterberg and alfie together is ok but I cant envision good lines at all honestly with that I would say nyquist and not tatar would be right choice so you got weiss franzen and datsyuk? Or you drop weiss to third line? figure out who datsyuk can actually mesh with? So second line would probably be abby franzen and datsyuk?

Yeah that is productive THROW UP. Weiss Tatar bertuzzi on third? That might not be too bad but I HATE THE SECOND LINE HATE HATE HATE. Third line would more than likely be cleary and not tatar so again burying the skilled young energy guys who we actually need a lot more than people seem to realize.

 

[Vladdy84]

Focus on a handful of games or focus on 48 games of futility? The smart person would go with the larger sample size. Especially when the person being mentioned is on the tail end of his career. Grit is overrated if you have to sacrifice so much to get it. I don't even view Gator or Cleary as gritty. Gator is fake physical. His hits don't wear down the opposition and they don't make the opposition think about Gator or Cleary when they are on the ice. Gator can enter as many primes as he wants. He just doesn't have a scorer's touch. He might get 15ish goals, but it will be the result of pure luck. There is a reason why 50% of Gator's goals last season came from two games.

another article criticizing Holland for bringing back Cleary.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/detroit-red-wings-doing-ken-holland-201100951--nhl.html

Glad to see the National Media firebombing the signing. Detroit media could care less. More concerned with the ****** college football teams and the Lions.

Cleary, Back in the Fold (Det News Sports Front Page).

 

[Vladdy84]

LOL size does not create space by having a guy like abby or bert. SKILL CREATES SPACE.

DID Zetterberg hudler and fippula have size? Does MALONE or PURCELL CREATE SPACE FOR STAMKOS AND MARTY?

What sport are you watching? For power play you need a guy who will get into the net and snipers or scorers etc.. helps a lot if back end defenders can get the puck to net too. That is something detroit has been lacking for a couple of years.

But if you have the body you better have THE SKILL to use your hands at the net.

Otherwise your better off with puck possession guys who can pass and move very well.

Either puck possession control and speed create space. You got two guys great at that you have a third or fourth in cleary and abby who are just flat out WORTHLESS at it. Abby will bang the wall but more often than not he screws up and trips someone when loses the puck cause he is not that great at possession control.

Tatar would be best with zetterberg and datsyuk imo. Maybe nyquist who is better at passing and puck control but they could use a goal scorer who would go into dirty area like cleary used to be able to who has good hands at that.

Size is not all that much unless is power play. IS HEART and skill stick handling speed etc.. Than how hard you are to get off the puck etc..

Alfie weiss and franzen will be ok as second line so is no biggie to have zetterberg and datsyuk together. Is not the same as was in past. We have more skill than before a true 2nd line center so they dont need to be split necessarily.

Tatar datsyuk and zetterberg make a lot of sense to me. Second line of weiss alfie and franzen makes sense.

To put say zetterberg and alfie together is ok but I cant envision good lines at all honestly with that I would say nyquist and not tatar would be right choice so you got weiss franzen and datsyuk? Or you drop weiss to third line? figure out who datsyuk can actually mesh with? So second line would probably be abby franzen and datsyuk?

Yeah that is productive THROW UP. Weiss Tatar bertuzzi on third? That might not be too bad but I HATE THE SECOND LINE HATE HATE HATE. Third line would more than likely be cleary and not tatar so again burying the skilled young energy guys who we actually need a lot more than people seem to realize.

You quoted me but didn't read what I said.

 

[SoupNazi]

LOL size does not create space by having a guy like abby or bert. SKILL CREATES SPACE.

Skill may create space, but you need size to maintain it.

 

[Run the Jewels]

They didn't sign him to just waive him, so your larger point doesn't make a whole lot of sense. This isn't a saving face situation, he would have signed in Philly if the promises were not already here. Especially since at 1.75 million he would be instantly claimed by one of the bottom feeder teams.

Eh, Holland signs 'em and Babs puts 'em in the pressbox. You should be fully aware of this given how your boy Jakub Kindl has been treated.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Skill may create space, but you need size to maintain it.

Yeah, tell that Datsyuk and Zetterberg - the two best forwards on Detroit at creating and maintaining space. How's that size work for Franzen?

Crosby? Kane? St. Louis? Size is so overrated. It's only a good trait if it's properly put to use. Puck possession is the key and size isn't a necessary component of it.

 

[Classicnamesup]

Personally I don't like D & Z together. Gives them too difficult match ups and spreads us too thin. We need quality wingers on both lines and they will both perform. We have at least 3 decent wingers

 

[Yemack]

Yeah, tell that Datsyuk and Zetterberg - the two best forwards on Detroit at creating and maintaining space. How's that size work for Franzen?

Crosby? Kane? St. Louis? Size is so overrated. It's only a good trait if it's properly put to use. Puck possession is the key and size isn't a necessary component of it.

Abby is very good complementary player for Datsyuk n Z.

You are misunderstanding this 'creating space' bit. Abby creates space for them by drawing defenders away while creates bit of confusion around the net so euro twins can take advantage.

If size didnt matter in those crucial puck retrieval/ net front presence role, but skill was, then all the NHL coaches are wrong by using big guys to get the puck out of corner. I'm not sure if you were one of them but for those of you who want to see Dats, Z and Tatar, I can assure you you will never see such combination unless Eastern conference hockey turns out to be very different from western conference.

You want Tatar's main job to be getting the puck from the corner for Datsyuk and Zetterberg? 82 games long? Against other team's 1st D? Tatar would be lucky to last a whole season.

Even if he manages to survive, we should let Dats and Z to handle the scoring and do the play making between themselves. They barely have enough time sharing the puck amongst themselves. We dont want puck on Tatar's stick but on those two.

Tatar is better served in other role.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Abby is very good complementary player for Datsyuk n Z.

You are misunderstanding this 'creating space' bit. Abby creates space for them by drawing defenders away while creates bit of confusion around the net so euro twins can take advantage.

If size didnt matter in those crucial puck retrieval/ net front presence role, but skill was, then all the NHL coaches are wrong by using big guys to get the puck out of corner. I'm not sure if you were one of them but for those of you who want to see Dats, Z and Tatar, I can assure you you will never see such combination unless Eastern conference hockey turns out to be very different from western conference.

You want Tatar's main job to be getting the puck from the corner for Datsyuk and Zetterberg? 82 games long? Against other team's 1st D? Tatar would be lucky to last a whole season.

Even if he manages to survive, we should let Dats and Z to handle the scoring and do the play making between themselves. They barely have enough time sharing the puck amongst themselves. We dont want puck on Tatar's stick but on those two.

Tatar is better served in other role.

Everyone has opinions. If you think tampa puts malone with stamkos and marty to get pucks on boards or purcell YOU DONT WATCH THE HOCKEY GAMES.

Malone is used in front of net on power play. Purcell is great at puck possession crossing the line. Marty and stamkos are both better on boards.

Is exactly same with zetterberg and datsyuk and more about datsyuk he is much better on boards than abdelkader or cleary.

Hudler and valtteri survived why is tatar different? I dont get it.

You mix up lines is ok to have a small fast line. Obviously with teams like boston and toronto you might mix it up a bit and go bigger. The rest of the east? Usually has a speed line.

Also you have to look at the stats. Abdelkader brings nothing to top line but mistakes and is one of the worst players in hockey with a downward trend on that line in 5-5 which is scary. Cleary's trend is the actual worst in hockey.

I get people like to go with comfort. Abdelkader is not bringing what you and a few others think though and putting him with dats and zette is just a terrible idea. Bertuzzi sammy tatar nyquit tootoo even are better options even though tootoo is right above abby on these types of stats. A healthy bertuzzi is best choice if had helm alfie would be a good choice on top line honestly.

Franzen is also another choice if want to be bigger etc.. Abby is a TERRIBLE CHOICE.

He brings no upside ZERO. He is not going to get that much better to make a difference is a total waste. I put up the stats is really no debate after those numbers. Look at what happened in playoffs over 3 seasons.

Now saying that is ok cause babcock is an idiot about it makes no difference lol.

scrimmage twitter cleary in penalty box yep ummm tatar scores? yep use your assets get a lead use your size guys to keep lead. Hudler zetterberg and fippula were a GREAT LINE not a good line a GREAT LINE.

Just ignore those results where is the size equation there? I mean some things people say on here disgusts me after watching 35 years of hockey.

Now if tatar proves he is as bad as brunner defensively yep he gets demoted and needs to be third line type but to give the kid a CHANCE he has earned to see what he can and CANT handle at this time is the RIGHT THING TO DO. I think he would be fine he fights for pucks he has good possession control he charges the net and will get dirty in close areas. He is like CLEARY WAS 3 years ago. Problem is Cleary is not the same guy anymore or even close. Abdelkader is just a never WAS.

LAST THING IN REGARDS TO ALL COACHES BEING WRONG. The problem is RESULTS and if out of 137 you are ranked 117 and 132 in ppg per 60 minutes of 5-5 hockey and one of you is RANKED second to last in NHL for shooting percentage and the other is in the 130 range of TOI guys for last two years YOU ARE FRIGGING SCRUBS to be kind and is only one NHL COACH WHO IS DOING THAT IN HOCKEY. Everyone else their guy who they put in front of net has better stats. Every other team their guy who is the puck chaser and hitting the boards has better stats. Go look it up for yourself open your eyes.

Is disgusting is no other word for it honestly.

So honestly tell me what the hell is abby bringing to detroits first line? How has that worked out last three years in playoffs? I showed the stats he brought in 57 PIM's lol. He didnt bring anything else. So he helped datsyuk or zetterberg be average NHL players in playoffs? By scoring 3 times in 28 games and being the fourth highest TOI on the team behind cleary and datsyuk and zetterberg?

I know I saw him creating a ton of space those last three games against chicago yep that is what I saw. I wonder how some of you think honestly. Maybe is just your resigned to accepting whatever babcock thinks is right it must be the best thing we can try.

 

[Yemack]

Everyone has opinions. If you think tampa puts malone with stamkos and marty to get pucks on boards or purcell YOU DONT WATCH THE HOCKEY GAMES.

Malone is used in front of net on power play. Purcell is great at puck possession crossing the line. Marty and stamkos are both better on boards.

Is exactly same with zetterberg and datsyuk and more about datsyuk he is much better on boards than abdelkader or cleary.

Hudler and valtteri survived why is tatar different? I dont get it.

You mix up lines is ok to have a small fast line. Obviously with teams like boston and toronto you might mix it up a bit and go bigger. The rest of the east? Usually has a speed line.

Also you have to look at the stats. Abdelkader brings nothing to top line but mistakes and is one of the worst players in hockey with a downward trend on that line in 5-5 which is scary. Cleary's trend is the actual worst in hockey.

I get people like to go with comfort. Abdelkader is not bringing what you and a few others think though and putting him with dats and zette is just a terrible idea. Bertuzzi sammy tatar nyquit tootoo even are better options even though tootoo is right above abby on these types of stats. A healthy bertuzzi is best choice if had helm alfie would be a good choice on top line honestly.

Franzen is also another choice if want to be bigger etc.. Abby is a TERRIBLE CHOICE.

He brings no upside ZERO. He is not going to get that much better to make a difference is a total waste. I put up the stats is really no debate after those numbers. Look at what happened in playoffs over 3 seasons.

Now saying that is ok cause babcock is an idiot about it makes no difference lol.

scrimmage twitter cleary in penalty box yep ummm tatar scores? yep use your assets get a lead use your size guys to keep lead. Hudler zetterberg and fippula were a GREAT LINE not a good line a GREAT LINE.

Just ignore those results where is the size equation there? I mean some things people say on here disgusts me after watching 35 years of hockey.

Now if tatar proves he is as bad as brunner defensively yep he gets demoted and needs to be third line type but to give the kid a CHANCE he has earned to see what he can and CANT handle at this time is the RIGHT THING TO DO. I think he would be fine he fights for pucks he has good possession control he charges the net and will get dirty in close areas. He is like CLEARY WAS 3 years ago. Problem is Cleary is not the same guy anymore or even close. Abdelkader is just a never WAS.

LAST THING IN REGARDS TO ALL COACHES BEING WRONG. The problem is RESULTS and if out of 137 you are ranked 117 and 132 in ppg per 60 minutes of 5-5 hockey and one of you is RANKED second to last in NHL for shooting percentage and the other is in the 130 range of TOI guys for last two years YOU ARE FRIGGING SCRUBS to be kind and is only one NHL COACH WHO IS DOING THAT IN HOCKEY. Everyone else their guy who they put in front of net has better stats. Every other team their guy who is the puck chaser and hitting the boards has better stats. Go look it up for yourself open your eyes.

Is disgusting is no other word for it honestly.

So honestly tell me what the hell is abby bringing to detroits first line? How has that worked out last three years in playoffs? I showed the stats he brought in 57 PIM's lol. He didnt bring anything else. So he helped datsyuk or zetterberg be average NHL players in playoffs? By scoring 3 times in 28 games and being the fourth highest TOI on the team behind cleary and datsyuk and zetterberg?

I know I saw him creating a ton of space those last three games against chicago yep that is what I saw. I wonder how some of you think honestly. Maybe is just your resigned to accepting whatever babcock thinks is right it must be the best thing we can try.

yep everyone has opinion but one thing for sure is that I do watch/played hockey quite alot and while I dont claim to know everything, I do know few things. So please dont tell me I dont know what hockey is.

you keep saying Abby brings nothing. I clearly stated what he brings. Last regular season was growing pains for all and based on alot of info, it was a transition year. In playoff, I saw everything kinda came together and Abby playing very well. Maybe you missed seeing him other than last 3 games but who really stood out in last 3 games agaisnt Chicago anyways?

The main reason Wings beat Ducks and pushed Hawks that far is through incredible team work and everyone pulling each other. I thought Abby like eveveryone else except maybe few pulled his own weight.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

yep everyone has opinion but one thing for sure is that I do watch/played hockey quite alot and while I dont claim to know everything, I do know few things. So please dont tell me I dont know what hockey is.

you keep saying Abby brings nothing. I clearly stated what he brings. Last regular season was growing pains for all and based on alot of info, it was a transition year. In playoff, I saw everything kinda came together and Abby playing very well. Maybe you missed seeing him other than last 3 games but who really stood out in last 3 games agaisnt Chicago anyways?

The main reason Wings beat Ducks and pushed Hawks that far is through incredible team work and everyone pulling each other. I thought Abby like eveveryone else except maybe few pulled his own weight.

LOL abby brought 3 points in 12 games and 33 PIM. That is playing well and pulling your weight huh?

Third on team in TOI? I hardly ever miss a game am in tampa but I get them streaming.

You can say that is upgrade to his last 16 playoff games where had 24 PIM and NO points but is still so sad is not worth a debate.

I am just saying abby is not a top line guy this is insane with the eye test and stat test. If you think 33 PIM for someone who is not in fights is OK in 12 games in playoffs OK you can think that. Is very wrong in my opinion and HURT US DRASTICALLY.

Go through the other guys on the team all the forwards and they have 60 PIM to his 33. I mean REALLY? Andersson 10 franzen and henrik 8 each. Rest of team 4 or 2 PIM.

ABBY KILLED US IN PLAYOFFS. So obviously you missed something? 2010-2011 he did same nonsense and was a -4 by far worst on team. No other forward was worse than a -1.

Last year it was franzen at a -7 and fippula at a -4 that really hurt us abby was a plus 4 which is quite a turn around but how many goals did we give other teams when he was sitting in the box for that 33 minutes?

If he could get the PIM down in playoffs to under 1 per game and keep the stats above in the plus minus I would get off his case a little. I just dont see it he is not smart enough by what I have seen. So protecting him to me and liking him on top lines in any situation is scary to me.

The problem is the VERY GOOD TEAMS boston chicago LA others etc.. are who we will face again in playoffs. They are gonna at least equal our top TWO LINES. So we cant have stupid penalties and give them advantages and we ABSOLUTELY need help scoring from our lower line guys to overcome this equality or worse position and I do not see even with smith and dekeyser moving up into POWER PLAY guys enough offense to make a difference without guys like helm not being available and nyquist in grand rapids and tatar being benched etc.. for cleary and abdelkader.

This is why I dont agree. I see our team I see the issues I just wish Mike would see the same thing and make changes take some chances see if we can make a difference in the scoreboards.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

The main reason Wings beat Ducks and pushed Hawks that far is through incredible team work and everyone pulling each other. I thought Abby like eveveryone else except maybe few pulled his own weight.

The defense of Abdelkader on line 1 always winds up with vague generalizations "he pulled his own weight" or "he did his job..

First line is beyond Abdelkader's weight class.

He's a fourth liner. Mayber a third liner-if the other guys have some speed and skill.

 

[Flowah]

Abby creates space for them by drawing defenders away while creates bit of confusion around the net so euro twins can take advantage.

Pretty much any player can do that. Most of them have more hockey skill and IQ than Abby though. That's the difference. The guy isn't smart enough to play with two of the smartest players in hockey.

At least Bert is smart.

 

[Tomas W]

Bert is a great hockey player, except that he is slooooooooow. That's why his best when there's no defenders around him. (SO)

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Pretty much any player can do that. Most of them have more hockey skill and IQ than Abby though. That's the difference. The guy isn't smart enough to play with two of the smartest players in hockey.

At least Bert is smart.

Exactly. Bertuzzi gets criticized, rightfully so, for his skate around the net and backhand pass to nobody... But anybody that criticizes Bertuzzi for that and not criticizing Abdelkader has no credibility in my eyes.
Abdelkader rarely wins battles, can't pass worth a damn, and has a weak shot and no hockey smarts.
It's been a decade since Bertuzzi was one of the game's most potent offensive forces -- but he still has some of what made him so awesome. He skates almost as well as he did in 2002. He's not quite as big (I think he was over 240) but he's still 225 or something.
He doesn't shoot enough doesn't go to the net as much as he should. But he's still miles better on a line with Datsyuk or Zetterberg..

It's really not even reasonable to debate it.

Justin Abdelkader -- 3 assists all year playing with the team's #1 and #2 goal scorer.

Enough said.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Bert is a great hockey player, except that he is slooooooooow. That's why his best when there's no defenders around him. (SO)

Bert is as fast now as ever. That's why he dropped the 25 pounds or whatever.
Well -- I haven't seen him since 2012 -- so I don't really know.
He was slow in the few games he played last year -- but he was rusty.

 

[Tomas W]

Bert is as fast now as ever. That's why he dropped the 25 pounds or whatever.
Well -- I haven't seen him since 2012 -- so I don't really know.
He was slow in the few games he played last year -- but he was rusty.

Is that so? Well if you're right he will be a great asset and much better suited for a top 6 role than Abby.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Is that so? Well if you're right he will be a great asset and much better suited for a top 6 role than Abby.

My stats say a tree post is better than a top six than abby so I will bite Let datsyuk shoot a puck off a pile on probably get better production.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Skill may create space, but you need size to maintain it.

No you don't....

Ever watch this guy name Pavel Datsyuk?

 

[Flowah]

No you don't....

Ever watch this guy name Pavel Datsyuk?

A ton of the best possession guys in the league are not "big" by any stretch of the imagination. Most of them are average. A lot of them are smaller. This obsession with size is ridiculous. Size is great if you have it. If you don't have it, you can still be supremely effective.

 

[kuick]

No you don't....

Ever watch this guy name Pavel Datsyuk?

Obviously one of the best players in the world may be an exception to the rule. But whether you agree with it or not, Pavel has spent a lot of time playing with garbage men like Homer/Abdelkader/Bert/Cleary for this very reason. It draws attention away from him because you can't just ignore a net front presence, giving him more time/space. Pavel has enough skill for one line alone. He really doesn't require other puck handlers because it's better off on his stick. Just send someone to stand where the puck is going to go.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

People still think Gator is useful playing in the top six? He is a barely competent 4th line winger. Things Gator supposedly does real gud, but is actually awful at. Puck retrieval, creating time and space, net front presence. Gator is only good at being liked by Babcock.

 

[BF3]

No one on the opposing team is scared of Cleary and his "grit". This toughness quotient horse**** is getting old.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

No one on the opposing team is scared of Cleary and his "grit". This toughness quotient horse**** is getting old.

Who said that the point was to be scared of Cleary? I've always thought Cleary's job was to get his ass kicked by defensemen all night long. Same with Abdelkader.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

No one on the opposing team is scared of Cleary and his "grit". This toughness quotient horse**** is getting old.

Opposing teams forget both of those players are on the ice. They just assume they are on a PP.