Confirmed with Link: Wings re-sign Cleary, 1 yr $1.75 MM

BinCookin

Registered User
Feb 15, 2012
6,160
1,377
London, ON
I am in pretty strong agreement with RobertGuess on this one.

Abdelkader provides lots of intangibles to his hockey game. He competes hard, he hits hard, he works hard. He is a perfectly competent and capable FOURTH LINER!

It is not his fault they put him on the first line. So I do not at all dislike Abdelkader.

Now I never played hockey myself. But I have been watching hockey since the early 90's. I really do not see the "size" argument as a "big players always beat small players" fact. I believe the opposite can be true.

Let Boston play their goons against our 4 lines of "skilled" players. (each line should be stronger than theirs). They will lose the game. Over the last 10 years, most teams that player Detroit do NOT play their goon that night. They generally play thier most skilled players and scratch their "grittier" players.

Thats what I have noticed.

But lets face it... we don't really have a choice here.

Our team is small.

Putting Abby on the top line is like trying to match Boston's Lucic with an entirely inadequate player. Thus we will LOSE trying to play their game. Make them play our game. Our game will be SKILL, all skill. They check the top line, our third line takes them apart. The DRW can win this way. Babcock seems to want to play a "tough" game, and I don't think we need more size. We need more smarts.

Z-D-Nyquist could be a dynamite line. Or Nyquist doesn't mesh, and he cant handle playing against top line people. But you have to try him there to see. What if we never tried playing Datsyuk and Z against top line players because they were small? Where would we be now??

The best players on our team include Tatar and Nyquist. They are the ONLY ones to potentially be the next FLIP and Hudler... or maybe even better than that. Cleary, Sammy, Bert, Abdelkader... well we know what they provide. They are veterans. These players have no more "potential" They are maxed out, and we know what they are.

Healthy Sammy and Bert are good players. I don't need to say they are bad. But our team NEEDS someone under 30 to be good too!

Tatar and Nyquist are those guys.

They really NEED to play this year. Fail or Succeed, they need to play so we can find out.
 

BinCookin

Registered User
Feb 15, 2012
6,160
1,377
London, ON
Obviously one of the best players in the world may be an exception to the rule. But whether you agree with it or not, Pavel has spent a lot of time playing with garbage men like Homer/Abdelkader/Bert/Cleary for this very reason. It draws attention away from him because you can't just ignore a net front presence, giving him more time/space. Pavel has enough skill for one line alone. He really doesn't require other puck handlers because it's better off on his stick. Just send someone to stand where the puck is going to go.

With all due respect. Putting Datsyuk with 2 good players or 2 mediocre players WILL make a big deal.

Datsyuk is a PPG player with NO help. True.

How many PPG could he get WITH help?? I don't know... but at worst case scenario... MORE!

Edit: Did you watch some of the games last year where Datsyuk gets double teamed, and they ignore gator. Sometimes it results in Datsyuk dekeing the entire team (Nashvile: Epic) and sometimes it involves him losing the puck. Or he started circling the zone prefering NOT to pass to Gator. I saw that. Others saw that.

I honestly don't understand hockey the way Babcock does. Because I cannot for the life of me see why Z-D-Nyquist would be a bad line?
I mean honestly, Z-D-Sammy or Z-D-Bert are better than Abdelkader... At least Sammy and Bert can shoot.
 

RedWingsNow*

Guest
Pavel has spent a lot of time playing with garbage men like Homer/Abdelkader/Bert/Cleary for this very reason. It draws attention away from him because you can't just ignore a net front presence, giving him more time/space. Pavel has enough skill for one line alone. He really doesn't require other puck handlers because it's better off on his stick. Just send someone to stand where the puck is going to go.

This simply isn't true.
Making plays in the offensive zone isn't easy in today's NHL. Very few forwards can do it with consistency.
Netfront ability is nice, but it's not nearly important at 5 on 5 as it is on the powerplay.

What matters at 5 on 5 is keeping possession and keeping the play going, winning battles and doing something positive with the puck.

The reason we have guys like Cleary and Homer and Bertuzzi and Abdelkader on the top line is because a) the salary cap, at times, has prevented us from signing worthy players, b) Because Holland hasn't been able to get the right players c) because Babcock is a dunce when it comes to Datsyuk
 

Lord Stan 2020

Elite fan
Jun 29, 2013
12,270
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With all due respect. Putting Datsyuk with 2 good players or 2 mediocre players WILL make a big deal.

Datsyuk is a PPG player with NO help. True.

How many PPG could he get WITH help?? I don't know... but at worst case scenario... MORE!

Edit: Did you watch some of the games last year where Datsyuk gets double teamed, and they ignore gator. Sometimes it results in Datsyuk dekeing the entire team (Nashvile: Epic) and sometimes it involves him losing the puck. Or he started circling the zone prefering NOT to pass to Gator. I saw that. Others saw that.

I honestly don't understand hockey the way Babcock does. Because I cannot for the life of me see why Z-D-Nyquist would be a bad line?
I mean honestly, Z-D-Sammy or Z-D-Bert are better than Abdelkader... At least Sammy and Bert can shoot.

You made me laugh so hard I cried here. Datsyuk decided 1 on 5 was not enough so he added abdelkader to the other team haha
 

DatsDeking

Registered User
Jun 25, 2013
2,103
946
I'm fine with paying Clearly for a year to be the "locker room guy" that he is. But if that's the case he has to play 3rd or 4th line, no more if this 2nd line crap.
 

kuick

Tatar Sauce
Aug 15, 2009
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Grand Rapids
With all due respect. Putting Datsyuk with 2 good players or 2 mediocre players WILL make a big deal.

Datsyuk is a PPG player with NO help. True.

How many PPG could he get WITH help?? I don't know... but at worst case scenario... MORE!

He has/had guys like Hossa and Zetterberg. Yeah, he's had career years with those two but it's marginal amount of production. Pavel puts up Pavel type numbers regardless because good things happen when he has the puck.

I honestly don't understand hockey the way Babcock does. Because I cannot for the life of me see why Z-D-Nyquist would be a bad line?

It wouldn't be 'bad' by any stretch. Nyquist is another great puck possession player, at this point he's one of the better ones on the team. The point is to have balance. His possession skills aren't really utilized if he's on a line with Datsyuk. If Datsyuk is on the ice, Datsyuk needs the puck. Give him someone who knows where to be and can finish (Z) and it doesn't really matter who else is out there.

Guys like Nyquist and Pavel are best when they have the puck. Putting them together seems a bit redundant, doesn't it?
 

RedWingsNow*

Guest
Guys like Nyquist and Pavel are best when they have the puck. Putting them together seems a bit redundant, doesn't it?

Nope.
Two best players for Pavel are a) Snipers/shooters b) Guys who can play catch with him.

Worst kind: Abdelkaders
 

sarcastro

Registered User
Jul 28, 2005
13,059
1
Nope.
Two best players for Pavel are a) Snipers/shooters b) Guys who can play catch with him.

Worst kind: Abdelkaders

With the current roster, you're not going to get another sniper or tic tac toe guy on that line. You're going to end up with Abdelkader, Cleary, or Bert. Or possibly even Sammy. Maybe some day you get Mantha or Jurco in there, but for now those guys are not in the picture.

Abdelkader, while not a particularly good option, is still a much better option than any of those guys. You can't fix a roster hole by pretending it doesn't exist and putting together an EA Sports 1st line. It doesn't work in real life. If Abby's not on that line, all those rabbit punches he takes to the face end up landing on Hank and Pavel instead.
 

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
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Abdelkader, while not a particularly good option, is still a much better option than any of those guys. You can't fix a roster hole by pretending it doesn't exist and putting together an EA Sports 1st line. It doesn't work in real life. If Abby's not on that line, all those rabbit punches he takes to the face end up landing on Hank and Pavel instead.
I'd much prefer Bert to Abby on the top line.
 

GT500x

Im OK where we're at
Jun 15, 2008
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0
My comfort zone
I said months ago after the trade deadline passed that Holland had till this fall to show me that he wasn't as bad a GM as he was starting to look to be...

New lines:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary
Alfedsson-Weiss-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Abdelkader-Cleary
Miller-Emmerton-Abdelkader

Helm on IR, Tootoo and Eaves waived, Nyquist in GR. Sammy, who gives a ****, and Tatar helps Gustavsson keep track of faceoffs while watching Cleary and Abdelkader get laughable amounts of ice time.

and he's shown me that he's even worse than he was starting to look to be. :(
 

MTU hockey

Registered User
Mar 4, 2013
431
132
Colorado
Guys like Nyquist and Pavel are best when they have the puck. Putting them together seems a bit redundant, doesn't it?

IMO it's not redundant. What I saw last year was that Pavel would have the puck in the offensive zone, he would get double teamed, and the other team would get the puck. It's basically a 4 on 5 because Abdelkader can't handle the puck, he can't skate with it, he can't pass, and he can't shoot. So Pavel wouldn't try passing to him, cause that would lead know where. So Pavel was forced to hold onto the puck more than he has to.

I don't get why some people believe Babcocks theory about needing a physical guy/guy pulling a piano on the top lines. Who was the big body on the Flip-Z-Hudler line in 2011-2012? those were 3 "small" skilled guys who could accomplish tic tac toe plays . Who's pulling the piano on the Stamkos line? What about the Johansson-Backstrom-Ovechkin line? Saad-Toews-Kane?

I'm noticing a pattern of 3 skilled guys. I have a question: say there is a 2 on 1 and Datsyuk has the puck, who would you rather have on his wing, Nyquist or Abdelkader?
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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Crosby is always put with an Abby-type, if that makes you feel better. Pens fans argue about that as well.
 

silkyjohnson50

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
11,301
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Crosby is always put with an Abby-type, if that makes you feel better. Pens fans argue about that as well.

Kunitz and Dupuis are better players than Abdelkader.

Kunitz was a 60 pt guy on Anaheim's scoring line in their 07 Cup season, and Dupuis's had a handful of seasons better than anything Abdelkader has shown before he ever step foot in Pittsburgh.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
21,238
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crease
Kunitz and Dupuis are better players than Abdelkader.

Kunitz was a 60 pt guy on Anaheim's scoring line in their 07 Cup season, and Dupuis's had a handful of seasons better than anything Abdelkader has shown before he ever step foot in Pittsburgh.

Kunitz was always good. No question there. Dupuis, however... I don't know. He was a throw-in on the Hossa trade, nothing more. Sure he had one nice year in Minnesota, but other than that he was looking like a 20 point player.

Anyway, it's taken him until age 32 to even look like a real 1st line player anyway, despite all the time he was getting with Crosby. It's kind of a hot button issue with Pen fans, not unlike what we have here.

We're talking about the best player on the planet and he's being tagged up with a guy like Dupuis? Surely you can see some irony there.
 
Last edited:

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
28,403
2,482
Yeah, Dupuis is Pittsburgh's Abby for sure.

Only took him, what? 5 years to become an offensive threat? hehe (edit: since playing in Pittsburgh, namely on Sid's wing)

I really hope Abby's game starts to incorporate more offensive prowess, because he showed very limited flashes of "getting it" last year. I'm remembering specifically his shoot-first mentality against the Ducks in the regular season that lead to his hat-trick game, and his breakaway goal in the playoffs, again, against the Ducks.

Maybe we just need to play the Ducks more often???

I guess moving East doesn't help that.
 
Last edited:

InjuredChoker

Registered User
Dec 25, 2011
31,402
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LTIR or golf course
The Wheel Deal ‏@Bill_Roose 1 min
Apparently, after much deliberation, Dan Cleary will now wear No. 15 for the #RedWings. He wore No. 71 in preseason game in PIT on Monday.
 

SoupNazi

Serenity now. Insanity later.
Feb 6, 2010
26,412
14,492
The Wheel Deal ‏@Bill_Roose 1 min
Apparently, after much deliberation, Dan Cleary will now wear No. 15 for the #RedWings. He wore No. 71 in preseason game in PIT on Monday.

He can't make up his mind about where he's signing or about his number. :shakehead
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
The Wheel Deal ‏@Bill_Roose 1 min
Apparently, after much deliberation, Dan Cleary will now wear No. 15 for the #RedWings. He wore No. 71 in preseason game in PIT on Monday.

Doesn't matter the number, he still stinks at playing hockey and will ruin my game-watching experience all season long.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,831
4,714
Cleveland
Doesn't matter the number, he still stinks at playing hockey and will ruin my game-watching experience all season long.

at least with 71, he could argue he was better than previous 71s. He'll have a hard time competing against Bill Quackenbush at 15.
 

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