Wings might stand pat at the deadline?!

[Steve Yzerlland]

His improved play is due to playing with Larkin and seemingly playing comfortable hockey.

He’s always been pretty much a 50P player. Not surprised he can elevate his play by 15-20P based on his previous seasons. He’s had a lot of bad luck his recent years, but of course people have to overreact and find someone or something to blame.

But, it’s also okay for AA to clamor for more money and absolutely get no ridiculous backlash from you, correct? Truly is baffling to say the least that you’d rather see a one demensional player get more money while someone who creates more offense get less.

I genuinely hope Nyquist is re-signed instead of being traded for garbage.

Nyquist conveniently has a career year right before UFA status. You can drink the koolaid if you want to....

 

[Shaman464]

Nyquist conveniently has a career year right before UFA status. You can drink the koolaid if you want to....

His career year is being driven by the fact he's playing along side player who will actually shoot from high percentage areas. Nyquist's biggest problem in the last few years is he is now perimeter player. Playing with other perimeter players meant ineffective lines. With players like Larkin and little Bert who are willing to play in the middle of the ice, he's a more effective playmaker and is getting assists now. There isn't a mystery or conspiracy here.

 

[avssuc]

Bottom 10 prospect pool

I hate defending the guy (because his work in the first half of the 2010's was brutal), but I can't find a source that ranks the Wings system outside of the 'top 10'.

Pronman: 2018-19 NHL farm system rankings


NHL farm system rankings: Best, worst prospect pipelines for 2018-19, from 1 to 31

 

[KJoe88]

Nyquist conveniently has a career year right before UFA status. You can drink the koolaid if you want to....

What Shaman said - and I rarely agree.

He CARRIED himself the first two seasons because he was allowed to. Didn’t have to rely on Zetterberg and Datsyuk (iirc he played without them a lot for those two years especially the one where both were hurt)

Then he was paired with Z the remainder of his career until now playing with Larkin, which allows him to flourish as perimeter player. He’s had tremendous bad luck the last two years and his shooting percentage gradually went down after an absurd streak he had the first two seasons. This year, he’s finding himself as player coincidentally on a contract year.

He has good chemistry with Larkin and Bert. THAT’s why he’s having a good year. And he he’ll be good for another two to three more years at least.

I’d rather drink that Koolaid - at least it isn’t what you smoke while knowing allegedly about hockey.

 

[pz29]

What Shaman said - and I rarely agree.

He CARRIED himself the first two seasons because he was allowed to. Didn’t have to rely on Zetterberg and Datsyuk (iirc he played without them a lot for those two years especially the one where both were hurt)

Then he was paired with Z the remainder of his career until now playing with Larkin, which allows him to flourish as perimeter player. He’s had tremendous bad luck the last two years and his shooting percentage gradually went down after an absurd streak he had the first two seasons. This year, he’s finding himself as player coincidentally on a contract year.

He has good chemistry with Larkin and Bert. THAT’s why he’s having a good year. And he he’ll be good for another two to three more years at least.

I’d rather drink that Koolaid - at least it isn’t what you smoke while knowing allegedly about hockey.

I agree, Nyquist is a good player who fits the team. Why get rid of him for an unknown quantity? And it's not like he is about to turn 40 either.

 

[KJoe88]

I agree, Nyquist is a good player who fits the team. Why get rid of him for an unknown quantity? And it's not like he is about to turn 40 either.

Let’s be real here. Larkin is having an unreal season, but how many of his goals would have occurred without Nyquist? Probably half? That’s big. They have great chemistry together. And imagine these two playing with an even better Bert?

Who do we have to replace him? Who do you get instead? Pavelski? He isn’t leaving SJ. Some other FA? Someone in GR? None play like him nor are they ready to.

Nyquist fits in. No reason to trade him. The others? Howard and Jensen. I get. Maybe Daley and Kronwall? Idc. I’ll keep repeating this even though I’m pretty positive it won’t resonate. Nyquist is still young enough to contribute when the team is good again. He’s not a Abdelkader or Lucic when he gets older he’ll suck. He’s not a broken down Cleary or Legwand.

 

[Winger98]

I agree, Nyquist is a good player who fits the team. Why get rid of him for an unknown quantity? And it's not like he is about to turn 40 either.

He's unlikely to re-sign here without testing the market, and any deal he does sign is likely to reflect what he'll get from anyone and not some sort of hometown discount. And I'm not sure the Wings should tie that money up in Nyquist, either, without at least seeing if we're considered by Karlsson and Panarin. So, deal him and do what we'd likely have to do anyway and bid for his services this summer.

 

[TheMule93]

I wouldn't move nyquist for anything less than a first rounder. It may have to be more.

 

[Filppula]

Nyquist has really impressed me this season, and this is coming from someone who almost done with him. So if I’m trading him, I’d want at least a first.

 

[Heaton]

I wouldn't move nyquist for anything less than a first rounder. It may have to be more.

Nyquist has really impressed me this season, and this is coming from someone who almost done with him. So if I’m trading him, I’d want at least a first.

If you don't trade him, are you comfortable either losing him for nothing or signing him for a 7+ year deal at 6m+ per year?

Nyquist will get a 1st easily, especially since guys like Ryan Hartman went for a 1st last year, but we need to make sure we're not signing a career 40pt winger to another albatross contract.

 

[obey86]

If you don't trade him, are you comfortable either losing him for nothing or signing him for a 7+ year deal at 6m+ per year?

Nyquist will get a 1st easily, especially since guys like Ryan Hartman went for a 1st last year, but we need to make sure we're not signing a career 40pt winger to another albatross contract.

By career 40 point winger you must mean a guy who has averaged 50 points/82 games played.

 

[Oddbob]

"Another positive sign is the Red Wings’ performance this season with a full, healthy roster."

Ummmmm..... We are about 3rd worst in the league right now, with a healthy roster according to this guy, that is a positive!"

If it is true we are standing pat than this is.....

 

[Frk It]

I'm talking about beyond the TDL. He could move more veterans if he started earlier in the year, but doesn't because he wants to have a stronger NHL roster right now. I don't agree with that.

For instance, I think a proactive GM would tell themselves: look, I don't want to get myself in a position where I must move Nyquist at the deadline or he'll walk as a UFA for nothing. So let's see if we can move him before then. Essentially, I think Holland puts himself in an awful lot of situations where he could lose a lot if the player decides to walk, and he bets on himself because he thinks he's cultivated a relationship with the player. That's a dangerous gameplan, especially when you're rebuilding.

And that's what I meant in my other post where I talked about the Wings kind of flying by the seat of their pants instead of sticking to a plan. It could all go wrong if negotiations go south, and yet the Wings are comfortable with that. I don't like it. I think it's reckless and a bad asset management strategy.

I would agree that Holland has been far more reactive than proactive for my liking (letting the defense get this bad is inexcusable IMO).

But I don’t think you’re going to solicit teams into making deals prior to the deadline. There are benefits towards a team waiting until the last possible minute to make a trade, especially the playoff teams.

 

[Oddbob]

His improved play is due to playing with Larkin and seemingly playing comfortable hockey.

He’s always been pretty much a 50P player. Not surprised he can elevate his play by 15-20P based on his previous seasons. He’s had a lot of bad luck his recent years, but of course people have to overreact and find someone or something to blame.

But, it’s also okay for AA to clamor for more money and absolutely get no ridiculous backlash from you, correct? Truly is baffling to say the least that you’d rather see a one dimensional player get more money while someone who creates more offense get less.

I genuinely hope Nyquist is re-signed instead of being traded for garbage.

I don't really buy his performance is anything other than it is contract time. He was a largely invisible most nights 20 goal 40 point guy 2 seasons in a row, and now magically at contract time, he is having a career season like oh so many UFA's in league history. If he comes back, you know it will be at least a 6X6 with full NTC, and almost guaranteed he goes back to the Nyquist we have been used to. I personally like him, and would love if he stayed and played at a 65+ pt pace, but I just can't see it. All in all, we haven't won with him, so time to move on.

 

[newfy]

Let’s be real here. Larkin is having an unreal season, but how many of his goals would have occurred without Nyquist? Probably half? That’s big. They have great chemistry together. And imagine these two playing with an even better Bert?

Who do we have to replace him? Who do you get instead? Pavelski? He isn’t leaving SJ. Some other FA? Someone in GR? None play like him nor are they ready to.

Nyquist fits in. No reason to trade him. The others? Howard and Jensen. I get. Maybe Daley and Kronwall? Idc. I’ll keep repeating this even though I’m pretty positive it won’t resonate. Nyquist is still young enough to contribute when the team is good again. He’s not a Abdelkader or Lucic when he gets older he’ll suck. He’s not a broken down Cleary or Legwand.

Is he young enough to contribute when theyre good again? He'll be 30 at the start of next season, wings probably good in 3 after that minimum. So Nyquist will be 33-34 when theyre competitive again. Will he still be that good?

The reason to trade him is hes an older, valuable asset. Instead of Nyquist, you have a year older, better Bertuzzi with a high pick this year, Zadina, Mantha etc. Would you trade Nyquist for Veleno to help the rebuild with the way Veleno is playing right now?

29 years old means this is his last chance at a big contract. I doubt he signs for anything less than 6 years if he can. He will test the open market unless Kenny gives him a dumb, big offer so he should be moved

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

"Another positive sign is the Red Wings’ performance this season with a full, healthy roster."

Ummmmm..... We are about 3rd worst in the league right now, with a healthy roster according to this guy, that is a positive!"

If it is true we are standing pat than this is.....

We HAVEN'T had a healthy roster.

That's the point of what he's saying. I think for the balance of the year, we've had our true top 4D all healthy at the same time for like two games. When Mike Green was out, we had an abysmal record. When he was healthy, it magically got a lot better. At least half of the top 6 defensemen on this team have missed at least 14 games.

When the team has been at full strength and had everyone, they have played well. Not well enough that they should just bring the band back together and roll, but certainly well enough to not force desperation moves at the deadline or at the draft. The Wings are in a good place right now. By forcing the issue and saying "We must trade X, Y, and Z at the deadline for ANY price", you hamstring yourself. By making the decision now that you just want Nyquist and Howard and whoever else gone just so they're gone, you're throwing the baby out with the bath water.

And like anyone who follows the tankathon page will tell you with their whinging, the Wings could win two or three games and all of a sudden be drafting 8th or 9th.

E: And reading the article, Kulfan actually says what he means. The Wings had massive injuries early. Go 1-7-2. Wings get healthy, go 11-4-1. Wings have injury bug hit again and go into another tailspin to land at 4th worst right now. So, I'm not understanding the snarky nature of your post. Kulfan actually was pretty clear with what he wrote.

 

[jkutswings]

I would agree that Holland has been far more reactive than proactive for my liking (letting the defense get this bad is inexcusable IMO).

But I don’t think you’re going to solicit teams into making deals prior to the deadline. There are benefits towards a team waiting until the last possible minute to make a trade, especially the playoff teams.

That's usually true, but Toronto did just deal for Muzzin. Most of the time it's in the last few days up to the deadline - and sometimes up to the last few minutes - but I think a creative front office can pull off some good deals, whether now or during the "peak transaction hours" timeframe.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

That's usually true, but Toronto did just deal for Muzzin. Most of the time it's in the last few days up to the deadline - and sometimes up to the last few minutes - but I think a creative front office can pull off some good deals, whether now or during the "peak transaction hours" timeframe.

When you have guys that you are holding out for the best value, you need the highest amount of eyes looking. The Wings want several teams in on their players. Creativity only takes you so far when there are caveats with all of your best assets (no injury to starters, Howard has a small market. Injury to starter, Howard becomes a big piece, for instance). It is not being fair to harp on Holland not hard-selling his guys earlier than the TDL. The pieces the Wings have to deal right now are almost all pure rentals.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I wouldn't move nyquist for anything less than a first rounder. It may have to be more.

So you let him walk for nothing or re-sign him?

 

[Frk It]

The pieces the Wings have to deal right now are almost all pure rentals.

I left this out of my post and really should have included this.

The guys we are looking to deal (Nyquist/Howard) being rentals makes it REALLY make more sense for us to wait until the deadline to move them. Teams don’t want to trade for them now and risk them getting hurt, and cap hits are pro rated so they cost less to inherit in a month than they do now.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

His inability to make clutch saves, hold 3rd period leads and lose multiple 3-1 playoff series leads is what most likely won't get us a 1st.

Oh good, the stupid "blew a 3-1 series lead" argument, again.

 

[Pavels Dog]

We already have 10 picks for the draft so it's not like it would be a crazy proposition to stand pat or make minimal moves. Unless good offers are out there we don't need to be desperate about moving anyone.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

So you let him walk for nothing or re-sign him?

Either way. I try to re-sign him and if he costs too much for my liking, I move on. We get good value for him or we keep him. And then we don't base our next decision on whether we got a pick for him or not. Because "not wanting to lose a guy for nothing" is what leads you to trade guys for pennies on the dollar. And not wanting to lose a guy for nothing tends to lead to wrapping a guy up in a bigger albatross deal than you want.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Holland is seriously delusional if he thinks this team is a playoff team, Makes absolutely no sense to stand pat. Hopefully this is just posturing on his part. We need to move all UFA's and hopefully any one that doesn't have a future in the organization. Heard Holland is willing to move any one that's not part of the Wings future core.

 

[Heaton]

By career 40 point winger you must mean a guy who has averaged 50 points/82 games played.

By career 40 point winger I mean every season except for one (maybe two after this year), he's ended with points in the 40's.

I get your point, though.