Wings have interest in Mark Hunter

[ricky0034]

How many impact players do you expect them to pull out of each draft?

well for starters as far as last year goes it would be nice if literally the entire draft class other than a top 10 pick and possibly an early second didn't already look like flat out busts a f***ing single year later,I mean this is supposed to be the easy part where the prospects are mostly playing in leagues they've already played in and even modest improvements have them looking okay but the Wings did such an awful job of drafting last year that most of their draft is flat out regressing in juniors

the Wings had 11 draft picks last year....

 

[LeafsNation75]

What is so great on Mark Hunter's drafting record between 2015-2017 he affected to Leafs drafting?

Toronto Maple Leafs Draft History at hockeydb.com

Getting Matthews at #1 and picking his own guy Marner at #4 were no-brainers.

I like this Hunter-idea in general, but it's funny how's there's no proof of any special drafting abilities vs. NHL drafts (I know his good record in London, but that's junior hockey) and people are praising him to be the next God and throwing Tyler Wringt under the bus.

As a Leafs fan I just wanted to say even though I was on the Marner bandwagon and it's who I wanted them to select, there were some reports that Babcock liked Hanifin, Werenski and Provorov if he had the final decision. So while Marner was indeed a no brainer it was not a 100% guarantee among everyone from the Leafs at that time. In the end Hunter had the final say in who they drafted.

Now in 2016 when the Leafs had the 31s pick of the 2nd round I wanted them to select Alex DeBrincat, instead Hunter went with Yegor Korshkov who previously went undrafted and it was seen as a odd selection.

 

[raymond23]

How many impact players do you expect them to pull out of each draft?

I think it's fair to expect better performance in late-round drafting. Half of our picks last year were irrelevant the second they were picked.

It would be interesting to see what players we whiffed on in those rounds.

 

[waltdetroit]

I think there is a correlation to the low floor, high ceiling guys taken (as opposed to safer late round picks.) Sort of like home run hitters strike out 5x as much than hitting home runs. I'd rather take some flyers with late picks

 

[Frk It]

well for starters as far as last year goes it would be nice if literally the entire draft class other than a top 10 pick and possibly an early second didn't already look like flat out busts a ****ing single year later,I mean this is supposed to be the easy part where the prospects are mostly playing in leagues they've already played in and even modest improvements have them looking okay but the Wings did such an awful job of drafting last year that most of their draft is flat out regressing in juniors

the Wings had 11 draft picks last year....

I hated last year’s draft, but I’m going to give them a chance this year... they are saying all the right things.

Give me some skilled players Tyler Wright, put your money where your mouth is...

 

[Ezekial]

the Wings had 11 draft picks last year....

2 in the top 70. Both seemingly NHLers, one moreso than the other.

5 in the top 70 this year.

 

[ricky0034]

2 in the top 70. Both seemingly NHLers, one moreso than the other.

5 in the top 70 this year.

eh I wouldn't go so far as to say that Lindstrom is seemingly an NHLer,he's got a LONG ways to go for that still

he just doesn't look like a straight up bust already one year in like most of the rest of the draft

 

[Ezekial]

eh I wouldn't go so far as to say that Lindstrom is seemingly an NHLer,he's got a LONG ways to go for that still

he just doesn't look like a straight up bust already one year in like most of the rest of the draft

We'll see how he handles Frolunda.

 

[Pavels Dog]

well for starters as far as last year goes it would be nice if literally the entire draft class other than a top 10 pick and possibly an early second didn't already look like flat out busts a ****ing single year later

for starters how about we don't judge an entire draft class one year later

and let's be honest, 11 picks or not, if you get 2 solid NHLers out of a draft it's been a good year. Rasmussen and Lindstrom could be all we get and it won't be a failure. But counting the rest of them out is way early.

But I guess if you wanna sh*t on our scouts it's easier than looking at older drafts because then you have to acknowledge how awesome Larkin is and how great Cholo and Hronek are progressing.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Because 3rd round and later picks never take more than ~3 years to develop right?

At the very least Turgeon, Saarijarvi, Pearson and Holway probably still have some potential. In ’14 we got Larkin and a kid that set the U20 SEL playoff scoring record before having a couple of knee surgeries. Terrible...

pearson's and holways numbers at maine don't look exactly great in comparison to their peers. maybe they'll have big jump soon but right now there's not much indication of impact NHLer.

turgeon couldn't score at 0.5ppg in his second pro season. saarijärvi just had his first pro season but ECHL stints even on first pro years aren't something that is associated with good NHL success.

right now those players look like fringen NHLers at most/busts.

probably too soon for '16 and '17 classes but larkin looks like the only real hit so far.

 

[Pavels Dog]

pearson's and holways numbers at maine don't look exactly great in comparison to their peers. maybe they'll have big jump soon but right now there's not much indication of impact NHLer.

turgeon couldn't score at 0.5ppg in his second pro season. saarijärvi just had his first pro season but ECHL stints even on first pro years aren't something that is associated with good NHL success.

right now those players look like fringen NHLers at most/busts.

probably too soon for '16 and '17 classes but larkin looks like the only real hit so far.

There are things in between "impact NHLer" and "bust". The current situation for the team has people judging draft picks as if anyone who isn't a star is a bad pick. Fact is it's pretty easy to get zero NHLers out of a draft, if you get even 2 players you have done well. I think we are pretty likely to get 2 out of each draft under Wright so far:

'14 : Larkin + Turgeon (safe bet for 4th line), outside chance for Holmstrom
'15: Svech + Saarijarvi, outside chance for Holway/Pearson
'16: Cholo+Hronek, outside chance for Larsson/Smith
'17: Rasmussen+Lindstrom, early to say if anyone else can make it

Gotta realize that getting 3 NHLers or more than 1 very good NHLer in a draft means you've KILLED IT. Those drafts don't happen often. Hopefully we can have such a draft in '18, for the first time we have the kind of draft stock where those kind of hopes start being realistic.

 

[InjuredChoker]

There are things in between "impact NHLer" and "bust". The current situation for the team has people judging draft picks as if anyone who isn't a star is a bad pick. Fact is it's pretty easy to get zero NHLers out of a draft, if you get even 2 players you have done well. I think we are pretty likely to get 2 out of each draft under Wright so far:

'14 : Larkin + Turgeon (safe bet for 4th line), outside chance for Holmstrom
'15: Svech + Saarijarvi, outside chance for Holway/Pearson
'16: Cholo+Hronek, outside chance for Larsson/Smith
'17: Rasmussen+Lindstrom, early to say if anyone else can make it

Gotta realize that getting 3 NHLers or more than 1 very good NHLer in a draft means you've KILLED IT. Those drafts don't happen often. Hopefully we can have such a draft in '18, for the first time we have the kind of draft stock where those kind of hopes start being realistic.

i meant impact as in top 9F/top4D. decent 4th liners and 3rd pair D can be found in FA for million. or even on waivers every year. larkin isn't a star and no one's here has said he was a bad pick.

so far only larkin is that, svech has pretty good shot imo despite bad 2nd pro year, saarijärvi might become one but is far from likely.

cholo and hronek look good.

 

[Pavels Dog]

i meant impact as in top 9F/top4D. decent 4th liners and 3rd pair D can be found in FA for million.

Doesn't make 4th liners or 3rd pairing D bad picks. Especially not in the later rounds. Building from within is almost always better than going dumpster diving in FA.

Larkin was the first pick under Wright and the highest until Rasmussen last year. Coincidence that he's looking the most established and best? Our other 1sts and 2nd round picks mostly look good too.

You can probably look at most team's drafting in the 3rd round and later from 2014-2017 and not find a whole lot of impressive picks. That's because those tend to take time, and getting anything at all out of those rounds is considered a win. Maybe there are some names that stick out (Point, Arvidsson, Niku, Bratt, Mete, etc) but on the whole when we're talking about guys like Saarijarvi, Pearson, Holway, Holmstrom, Turgeon etc. they look like decent picks overall even if they're not homeruns (at this point in time).

 

[InjuredChoker]

Doesn't make 4th liners or 3rd pairing D bad picks. Especially not in the later rounds. Building from within is almost always better than going dumpster diving in FA.

Larkin was the first pick under Wright and the highest until Rasmussen last year. Coincidence that he's looking the most established and best? Our other 1sts and 2nd round picks mostly look good too.

You can probably look at most team's drafting in the 3rd round and later from 2014-2017 and not find a whole lot of impressive picks. That's because those tend to take time, and getting anything at all out of those rounds is considered a win. Maybe there are some names that stick out (Point, Arvidsson, Niku, Bratt, Mete, etc) but on the whole when we're talking about guys like Saarijarvi, Pearson, Holway, Holmstrom, Turgeon etc. they look like decent picks overall even if they're not homeruns (at this point in time).

we traded an extra 3rd rounder to get turgeon and we had rated him as a 1st rounder, per wright. so far from 14 and 15 drafts we have one player who is good and compares favorably among his peers, well enough to suggest that we have a good player in our hands. building from within is good but i'd prefer to build from within with good players, instead of 4th liners/3rd pair D. or just dumpsters.

and yes, finding good players from rounds 3 to 7 is hard and so far wright has not been able to find a hit there. don't have the time right now to look at more closely how our later round picks compare to other teams but i'd assume it's below average.

 

[StargateSG1]

Because 3rd round and later picks never take more than ~3 years to develop right?

At the very least Turgeon, Saarijarvi, Pearson and Holway probably still have some potential. In ’14 we got Larkin and a kid that set the U20 SEL playoff scoring record before having a couple of knee surgeries. Terrible...

No, because it's 3-4 years later and the best you can hope they develop into is a bottom pair D and a bunch of 4th liners. And the D is playing in Toledo.

 

[Hen Kolland]

As a Leafs fan I just wanted to say even though I was on the Marner bandwagon and it's who I wanted them to select, there were some reports that Babcock liked Hanifin, Werenski and Provorov if he had the final decision. So while Marner was indeed a no brainer it was not a 100% guarantee among everyone from the Leafs at that time. In the end Hunter had the final say in who they drafted.

Now in 2016 when the Leafs had the 31s pick of the 2nd round I wanted them to select Alex DeBrincat, instead Hunter went with Yegor Korshkov who previously went undrafted and it was seen as a odd selection.

Out of curiosity, does the Toronto fanbase look at Marner as the right pick? Hanifin has delivered some "meh" results as far as becoming that top tier defenseman Carolina was banking on, but the immediate results and development of Werenski and Provorov look extremely promising at this point.

I know Marner has been subject to some of that Babcock special treatment reserved for talented, young players, so there's probably more to be seen out of him. Maybe I'm clouded by Detroit's need for defensive help, but I would personally take Werenski and Provorov over Marner based on position alone (I look at Marner as a winger), but I'd be interested to hear Toronto's opinion.

 

[Ezekial]

And the D is playing in Toledo.

Less than 1/5 of the season.

 

[InjuredChoker]

list of prospects who so far have had better production in AHL, are playing in the NHL or in some cases have had very good production in NCAA so we can say quite comfortably that they look better prospects than any drw pick from 14/15 not named saarijärvi. with D it's not that easy/simple to evaluate players on just boxscore stats but almost all of these players have had good enough production that they'll probably deserve to be regarded above vili as prospects.

just boxscore scouting but it's pretty solid for forwards and decent for D too.

TBL: point, cirelli, joseph
CAR: foegele, wallmark, roy
NYI: sorokin, vande sompel
NSH: arvidsson, carrier
BOS: heinen, bjork
VAN: forsling, gaudette
PHI: lindblom, vorobyov
COL: lindholm, mironov
SJ: labanc, balcers
LAK: amadio
STL: blais
ANA: kase, terry
MTL: evans
ARI: capobianco
NYR: saarela
FLA: malgin
EDM: bear
DAL: cecconi
MIN: kaprizov
PIT: simon
CGY: mangiapane
WPG: appleton, niku
CBJ: nutivaara


as for hunter.. might have missed someone but no leafs pick drafted 3rd or later stood out. but i left out many euro/D prospects as it's not as easy to make comparison with those.

 

[Pavels Dog]

and yes, finding good players from rounds 3 to 7 is hard and so far wright has not been able to find a hit there. don't have the time right now to look at more closely how our later round picks compare to other teams but i'd assume it's below average.

Yeah it's difficult. You draft a kid in the 7th round who breaks the U20 scoring record in SHL playoffs, and then he has a couple of knee injuries. Bad pick by Wright!
Turgeon is progressing pretty well, I'm not too concerned with kids that actually show improvement. What you should worry about is those who stagnate. Making the NHL at ~23 is nothing strange for a 3rd round or later pick.
Saarijarvi by all accounts showed nice improvement over the season, and has very high upside. If he takes a leap next season and is a big player for Grand Rapids his development is kinda on par with someone like Vatanen. The NCAA players are hard to know for sure, but again a guy like Pearson is at least showing progress and as a 5th round pick you can't ask for a whole lot more.

Worth remembering that Wright didn't have extra picks the first few drafts.

And the D is playing in Toledo.

Just like Svechnikov is playing for the Wings?

10 games in Toledo, Svech got 14 in the NHL. Are you saying that neither were AHLers last year?

list of prospects who so far have had better production in AHL, are playing in the NHL or in some cases have had very good production in NCAA so we can say quite comfortably that they look better prospects than any drw pick from 14/15 not named saarijärvi. with D it's not that easy/simple to evaluate players on just boxscore stats but almost all of these players have had good enough production that they'll probably deserve to be regarded above vili as prospects.

just boxscore scouting but it's pretty solid for forwards and decent for D too.

TBL: point, cirelli, joseph
CAR: foegele, wallmark, roy
NYI: sorokin, vande sompel
NSH: arvidsson, carrier
BOS: heinen, bjork
VAN: forsling, gaudette
PHI: lindblom, vorobyov
COL: lindholm, mironov
SJ: labanc, balcers
LAK: amadio
STL: blais
ANA: kase, terry
MTL: evans
ARI: capobianco
NYR: saarela
FLA: malgin
EDM: bear
DAL: cecconi
MIN: kaprizov
PIT: simon
CGY: mangiapane
WPG: appleton, niku
CBJ: nutivaara


as for hunter.. might have missed someone but no leafs pick drafted 3rd or later stood out. but i left out many euro/D prospects as it's not as easy to make comparison with those.

Kudos for making a list. Tbh for me it just looks like a bunch of names no more or less guaranteed to be impact players than what we have, except for a handful of them. It's hard to know. It wouldn't exactly be a shock to see Saarijarvi turn it up a notch and become better than half the players on that list.

 

[njx9]

10 games in Toledo, Svech got 14 in the NHL. Are you saying that neither were AHLers last year?

I think there's a bit of difference in being called up vs. being sent down. Especially when it's ECHL vs. NHL.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Yeah it's difficult. You draft a kid in the 7th round who breaks the U20 scoring record in SHL playoffs, and then he has a couple of knee injuries. Bad pick by Wright!
Turgeon is progressing pretty well, I'm not too concerned with kids that actually show improvement. What you should worry about is those who stagnate. Making the NHL at ~23 is nothing strange for a 3rd round or later pick.
Saarijarvi by all accounts showed nice improvement over the season, and has very high upside. If he takes a leap next season and is a big player for Grand Rapids his development is kinda on par with someone like Vatanen. The NCAA players are hard to know for sure, but again a guy like Pearson is at least showing progress and as a 5th round pick you can't ask for a whole lot more.

yeah, axel holmström was classic tyler wright pick. nothing to do with håkan andersson.

progress is always better than stagnation or even regression but turgeon just played his second pro season and was below 0.5ppg. just by looking at him play, can't really see much upside in there. maybe a 3rd liner at best if everything works out right.

vatanen dominated against men on his d+1 year. d+2 year he was the best dman in FHL. i do agree that saarijärvi has relatively high upside.

so far under wright the top picks look good but the later round picks (3+) don't look good and many of our picks in that range had worse season this year than year before (though i'm not convinced that it's more than randomness). luckily we have lot of high picks in this draft.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Out of curiosity, does the Toronto fanbase look at Marner as the right pick? Hanifin has delivered some "meh" results as far as becoming that top tier defenseman Carolina was banking on, but the immediate results and development of Werenski and Provorov look extremely promising at this point.

I know Marner has been subject to some of that Babcock special treatment reserved for talented, young players, so there's probably more to be seen out of him. Maybe I'm clouded by Detroit's need for defensive help, but I would personally take Werenski and Provorov over Marner based on position alone (I look at Marner as a winger), but I'd be interested to hear Toronto's opinion.

From what I remember when it was known Toronto would be selecting 4th overall in 2015, there was a debate on our board between Marner and Hanifin. I also remember that a lot of Leafs fans and I think their management group would have passed on Strome if Arizona had taken Marner 3rd overall instead. There was even a rumor the Leafs might have tried to trade down with the Blue Jackets to acquire extra picks, although I'm not sure if that means hoping Marner falls to 8th overall or getting to chosee between Werenski and Provorov. Here is video of the Blue Jackets draft table which shows that.



In the end and with the benefit of hindsight Marner has turned out to be a great selection.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

yeah, axel holmström was classic tyler wright pick. nothing to do with håkan andersson.

Are we assigning all European picks to Andersson? If so, he should probably be shown the door with Wright. He hasn't hit on anything significant in a very, very long time.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The Maine guys are doing just fine, I think it was a mistake that both aren't pro right now...

Pearson has been very good, I see third line NHL center in him often.

That's the trouble with box-scores though. I know it is hard to see a lot of them. But Chase Pearson has play-making, with a good frame and good skating. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the NHL.

Holway is a project, but he has NHL tendencies that stand out. They were both deep picks that to date are promising.

 

[newfy]

Our last draft really soured my view on him. And I like Rasmussen. Besides Hronek, who has he drafted past the first round that has a shot of playing 200+ games in the NHL? Maybe Lindstrom? If Turgeon does, it will be as a 4th liner

In 4 drafts he has picked a whopping 4 players who will probably be impact NHLers.

It’s not unfair to say that as of now he has drafted 4 players in 4 drafts that project to be above average NHLers, 3 of which were top 20 picks

If you legit think Wright has been bad but can say he looks like hes got 4 impact NHLers in his first four drafts, then you shouldnt really be complaining because its way too early to judge at least 2 of those drafts. Youre lucky to get one per draft