Value of: William Nylander

[TheImpatientPanther]

3 1st line spots per team x 31 teams = 93 1st line spots.

16th in RW time, within a minute per game of Kucherov/Rantanen/Pastrnak

Ya my bad, didn't sort the TOI by position but Nylander is going to produce like those 3 above with an extra minute of ice time?

Kuch was pacing 102 pts
Pasta was pacing 111 pts
Rantanen was pacing 80pts, but only playing 42 games. Don't see why he wouldn't have hit 90+ again.

Again, I'm not saying Nylander can't be a PPG player, just won't happen with Marner as the #1RW imo.

 

[4thline]

Ya my bad, didn't sort the TOI by position but Nylander is going to produce like those 3 above with an extra minute of ice time?

Again, I'm not saying Nylander can't be a PPG player, just won't happen with Marner as the #1RW imo.

The two things are not connected. You said won't go PPG with 2nd line minutes. He's getting 1st line minutes, and was pacing 73 points doing it. Not a large gap to close.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Yeah, i'm sure you would

Yeah, I would. That’s why I said that

 

[ToDavid]

I don't understand the desire to trade Nylander to free up cap space so we can sign an old, likely declining UFA defenseman. If Nylander is traded, a similarly aged defenseman should be the target return.

 

[bernmeister]

DeAngelo is not a good dman the leafs need the exact opposite type of player as him. In Arizona he was moved to forward because he was so horrid in his own end. I’d puke if the leafs got him.

Not sure as to that except as an isolated experiment, but even if so, more conclusively
DAT WUZ DEN AN DIS IS NOW

 

[Flyer lurker]

I guess this is where we differ. The pandemic does not hurt the leafs. In many ways it actually helps.

it would if toronto was the only team that was right to the cap and there were offer sheet threats.
But multiple teams are up against it.

Toronto has

1.) their core signed at relatively reasonable cap hits for an 81.5-82.5 cap.
Not steals in cap by any stretch. And they don’t get the cap jump to make them steals... but other teams don’t either

2.) all players have less on their cap hits due to front loading.

3.) no brutal long term contracts to old stars.

toronto has Massive flexibility if they want to go nuclear. Matthews/marner/nylander/kappy/AJ/muzzin/Ttavares

have all had tons of their real money paid out. JT and muzz have trade protection.

The cap hurts big money teams in times of “growth”. Big money teams are limited how they can spend and everyone else can keep up.

Now. How many teams will be able to pay full price? Will be able to give SB?

the teams with cap space will be very unlikely
To have the money to pay out.

1)If 11m is "reasonable" to Marner and Tavaras post virus then yep we still do disagree. And without virus overpaying by 1-2m each isn't a big deal. with virus it does show more. Top 6 players (not including ufa 2021 goalie) have 52m spent and reilly will get more in 2 years. 29.5m to make up 16 players is difficult. You need a great farm to do so.

2)How many teams can take on a front loaded 11m (or even 7m) in cap space without giving money back? How many would give back fair value?

3) There are no buy out candidates. Dubas did well there. One point we can agree on.

 

[bernmeister]

Would rather take Smith or Mark Staal then DeAngelo he is awful in his own end. Ask yourself how do you think he’d do in a Shutdown PK role which is what the leafs are looking for.

this is a self inflicted assault on yr credibility

 

[Srsly]

Surely the leafs should alleviate their cap crunch by trading the least expensive member of their top four forwards after a breakout year. I really don’t understand this perspective...

I’d also prefer to keep Marner but at least I understand the desire to move a 10+ million dollar contract

 

[bernmeister]

Every single team is f***ed due to covid. Let's not make this a Leaf thing.

Andersen won't get much of a raise if he is even extended. He hasn't gotten it done when it counted and just had his worse year as a Leaf. Hyman will get a good raise but nothing crazy.. He has played with either JT or Matthews nearly his entire career as a Leaf (odd time with Kadri). Still very valuable but not a 7M+ type signing.

But anyways, there will be changes. That's how sports work. We've heard we're f***ed and can't keep anyone for 5 years now. We were supposed to lose everyone last summer too but Dubas got out of the Marleau deal. He got out of the Zaitsev deal. If Marner has to go some day, then he has to go. But he will be returning a haul that will help the Leafs remain competitive meaning likely includes a good dman and futures, along with a short term cap dump.

Geo = savings compared to Andy

Marner getting a haul is not unreasonable to anticipate sq 1, but then immediately have to recognize who can take that contract, both space and $, need aside?

Moving MM is easy.
Getting a haul max relief is difficult

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

The two things are not connected. You said won't go PPG with 2nd line minutes. He's getting 1st line minutes, and was pacing 73 points doing it. Not a large gap to close.

18 mins a game seems like 2nd line minutes but I guess your bottom 6 gets less time then and forgetting C's mostly get 20mins or more?
That's including his 3 PP mins per average no, which site you using?
But yes I agree, for just under 2/3 of the season, he was pacing 73pts.

How much time was Nylander getting under Babcock, just curious if there was a big difference in TOI or simply a new coach/system that helped him explode.

 

[bernmeister]

I like those. Especially the Dobson one I see him and Rielly clicking well together. Not sure what hinostroza brings to the leafs tho.

Isles would want a package so they can send some cap back.
They do not have great cap picture atm.

 

[CatchyTune]

Yeah, I would. That’s why I said that

If you think the 11th overall is anywhere close to Nylanders value give your head a shake

 

[Unbiased Fan]

You're extremely underrating Dermott if you think Sandin and Lehtonen have passed him. I am on the "keep Dermott" train 100%, and I hope management feels the same way. Excluding UFA's, he is probably our 3rd best defenceman. He is more of a #4 but it is what it is.

I really hope to see him back next season, people forget he has dealt with multiple injuries in the past, but when he is on the ice he is rock solid. He doesnt provide much offense (which we dont need him to), but he is a rock solid, responsible defender who rarely makes a mistake.

I agree 100% but Sandin has the higher potential and should be played more because he can develop into a number 1 dman.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

this is a self inflicted assault on yr credibility

If all 3 were available at league minimum Salary DeAngelo would be the last one I take for a PK role and almost anyone would agree with that. They just have awful contracts

 

[LeafChief]

Let me know when you guys finish working out a deal. I'll call the GM's too file the paperwork.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

If you think the 11th overall is anywhere close to Nylanders value give your head a shake

I don’t think that. I was just putting a starting offer out there that meets the criteria that the poster asked for: shed cap and add depth/defenseman and picks so you can make move in FA. I expected a counter-offer rather than condescending remarks.

(Mod)

 

[shortfuze]

I see 0 reason to move Nylander for pure futures while we are looking to contend. Why would we are selling a 24 year old 70-ish point winger on a steal of a contract for futures?

How is a 60 point winger making almost 7 million per a steal of a contract? He’s a good player and getting paid right where he should be. It’s a good contract.

 

[CatchyTune]

I don’t think that. I was just putting a starting offer out there that meets the criteria that the poster asked for: shed cap and add depth/defenseman and picks so you can make move in FA. I expected a counter-offer rather than condescending remarks

Saying "I’d give 11 and Pateryn for Nylander" doesnt imply what you're saying it implies. Also Taking Pateryn back means we clear less than Nylanders $7 million, so why would we take a dump back?

This whole thread is silly, its not just your offer. Nylander isnt the type of guy you trade to clear cap.

 

[CatchyTune]

I agree 100% but Sandin has the higher potential and should be played more because he can develop into a number 1 dman.

I dont know if rushing Sandin who was 19 at the time would have been a good idea. It was fine for him to get a cup of coffee but throwing him into a big role like you suggested would not have been beneficial IMO.

 

[Morbo]

I don’t think that. I was just putting a starting offer out there that meets the criteria that the poster asked for: shed cap and add depth/defenseman and picks so you can make move in FA. I expected a counter-offer rather than condescending remarks.

Don't blame Leaf fans for your garbage offer

 

[CatchyTune]

How is a 60 point winger making almost 7 million per a steal of a contract? He’s a good player and getting paid right where he should be. It’s a good contract.

This year he played to a 37 goal 71 point pace. He was also much better under Keefe (as was almost everyone to be fair), and at only 24 I dont see why those numbers cant rise. The line of Mikheyev-Tavares-Nylander looked dominant in its brief tryout before Mikheyevs injury.

 

[shortfuze]

This year he played to a 37 goal 71 point pace. He was also much better under Keefe (as was almost everyone to be fair), and at only 24 I dont see why those numbers cant rise. The line of Mikheyev-Tavares-Nylander looked dominant in its brief tryout before Mikheyevs injury.

I think he’s a good player and has a chance to up his point totals under keefe. I just don’t think his contract is a steal. It’s a good contract though. Just my 2 cents. I’ve been wrong many times before. Lol.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

This year he played to a 37 goal 71 point pace. He was also much better under Keefe (as was almost everyone to be fair), and at only 24 I dont see why those numbers cant rise. The line of Mikheyev-Tavares-Nylander looked dominant in its brief tryout before Mikheyevs injury.

So it may become a steal of a contract but it isnt yet. Last year he pulled in $10 million for 27 points.

 

[Legion34]

1)If 11m is "reasonable" to Marner and Tavaras post virus then yep we still do disagree. And without virus overpaying by 1-2m each isn't a big deal. with virus it does show more. Top 6 players (not including ufa 2021 goalie) have 52m spent and reilly will get more in 2 years. 29.5m to make up 16 players is difficult. You need a great farm to do so.

2)How many teams can take on a front loaded 11m (or even 7m) in cap space without giving money back? How many would give back fair value?

3) There are no buy out candidates. Dubas did well there. One point we can agree on.

the point of the front loading is every leaf player signed has most of his money paid out. Today matthews and marner already have half their total money


Tavares was offered 11 -13 million by multiple teams in a 79.5 system. So his cap hit is fine.

If he was traded “July 2” of 2021 he would be owed 750 k for that year and 8 million for 3 more.

Even melnyk would be happy to pay tavares. 6.25 a year in real money.

marner got overpaid by about a million compared to RFAs sure. But he is in the same boat as Tavares.

Heck if you traded him today he would be getting paid
750 k next year. And an AAV of about 7 million for the next 5

Those values in a cash poor market are incredible.

Many teams would rather pay 22-27 year old marner 7 ish in real money with an 11 cap hit than pay a worse player 8 with a corresponding hit.

7 million is Kevin Hayes money

 

[Legion34]

So it may become a steal of a contract but it isnt yet. Last year he pulled in $10 million for 27 points.

and the leafs paid horton 5 million to stay at home and score 0 pts. Money means nothing to them. It’s the cap.

dubas stroked cheque’s for 60 million on July 1 and was on tsn golfing and chirping duthie. They could pay him 20’and be bored