Speculation: Will the 11th Overall Pick be traded ?

CanucksSayEh

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Apr 6, 2012
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Trading for a player that was damaged goods wasn't a good start to be fair.
Injured doesn't make one damaged goods. he doesn't have a concussion, bad knee or back issues.

The timing of the trade makes complete sense. If moved, Horvat was always supposed to return a Dman. It's easier to liquify first when your buyers are playoff teams, so that's what they did. A bidding war at the draft wouldn't favor us, certainly not with the fallen picks.

Detroit valued the pick more because of the uncertainty, Canucks valued it less for the same reason. We won the bet, yet to be seen if we've won the trade. Hronek does seem pretty good.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Injured doesn't make one damaged goods. he doesn't have a concussion, bad knee or back issues.

True. He has a bad shoulder.

We will see if it will continue to be a problem. He tried to return from the injury multiple times this year.

It probably wont be an issue come next season but that is not by any means certain.
The timing of the trade makes complete sense. If moved, Horvat was always supposed to return a Dman. It's easier to liquify first when your buyers are playoff teams, so that's what they did. A bidding war at the draft wouldn't favor us, certainly not with the fallen picks.
Draft picks are most valuable at the draft and least valuable at the TDL.

Detroit valued the pick more because of the uncertainty, Canucks valued it less for the same reason. We won the bet, yet to be seen if we've won the trade. Hronek does seem pretty good.
Because it didnt win the lottery...?
 
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Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
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Hiding under WTG's bed...
True. He has a bad shoulder.

We will see if it will continue to be a problem. He tried to return from the injury multiple times this year.

It probably wont be an issue come next season but that is not by any means certain.

Draft picks are most valuable at the draft and least valuable at the TDL.


Because it didnt win the lottery...?
Yeah easy to say in hindsight.

lol at saying "don't judge him until he plays for us" and then saying "we won the bet" before he's even had a cup of coffee on the Canucks.
 
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vanarchy

May 3, 2013
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vanarchy

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The 11th pick would be enough to add an established NHLer, but we don't have the cap room for that.
The 11th pick would also be enough of a sweetener to dump a bad contract.
The 11th pick is not enough to do both of those things.

We're going to make the pick and run the same roster back next year.
Sounds too safe for a new management group that's already feeling the heat.

I think desperation will set in and they will pay whatever price to try and crack the post season next year. Short-term moves for our long-term detriment.
 
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CanucksSayEh

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Yeah easy to say in hindsight.

lol at saying "don't judge him until he plays for us" and then saying "we won the bet" before he's even had a cup of coffee on the Canucks.
Isles made the playoffs, the pick fell, so yea, we won that bet. If you have any insight on Hronek from an extensive viewing of Wings games, do share.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Isles made the playoffs, the pick fell, so yea, we won that bet. If you have any insight on Hronek from an extensive viewing of Wings games, do share.
Do you mind me asking; Are you one of those positive spin -posters?

Are you just going to take the positive view on this no matter what? I cant remember your post history sorry.
 

Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
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Hiding under WTG's bed...
Isles made the playoffs, the pick fell, so yea, we won that bet. If you have any insight on Hronek from an extensive viewing of Wings games, do share.
I haven't said jackshit about Hronek since he played fewer games for the Canucks than Frankie Corrado. You can't say "we won the bet" when we don't know if Hronek actually plays well for us.

Now whether a team such as the Canucks as they are now should be making those type of bets is another question.
 

MarkusNaslund19

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I haven't said jackshit about Hronek since he played fewer games for the Canucks than Frankie Corrado. You can't say "we won the bet" when we don't know if Hronek actually plays well for us.

Now whether a team such as the Canucks as they are now should be making those type of bets is another question.
Do you mind me asking; Are you one of those positive spin -posters?

Are you just going to take the positive view on this no matter what? I cant remember your post history sorry.
Why don't you try evaluating arguments on their merit instead of trying to categorize posters as always being one thing or another?

And he's not saying it's played out enough that we know the whole trade has worked out.

He's saying we bet the draft pick was a falling asset and Detroit bet on it hoping it was an appreciating asset. We were right on that and extracted excess value compared to what an 18th overall pick would be worth.

Edit: typo.
 
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Raistlin

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Why don't you try evaluating arguments on their merit instead of trying to categorize posters as always being one thing or another?

And he's not saying it's played out enough that we know the whole trade has worked out.

He's saying we bet the draft pick was a falling asset and Detroit bet on it hoping it was an appreciating asset. We were right on that and extracted excess value compared to what an 18th overall pick would be worth.

Edit: typo.
Ready to eat up 6+ million cap Hronek for 17th and a mid 2nd pick in a really deep draft year is a really good deal for Detroit. It's not a horrible deal for Vancouver, it's for a decent player, but at a very wrong time, in terms of where the pipeline is at and the cap health of the team.
 

Petey But Really Jim

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Ready to eat up 6+ million cap Hronek for 17th and a mid 2nd pick in a really deep draft year is a really good deal for Detroit. It's not a horrible deal for Vancouver, it's for a decent player, but at a very wrong time, in terms of where the pipeline is at and the cap health of the team.
If he really works out for us it is maybe as good as the Miller acquisition, but with many less surplus value years.
 

mriswith

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The idea that we "won" and detroit "lost" a gamble on the Isles pick is nonsense.

The Isles pick is 17th and at best could have been 13th due to trade protection. That's 4 slots.... and again, versus absolute best case scenario -it was never likely to be exactly 13th.

This is not remotely "we won the gamble on the depreciating asset" territory, if anything it's closer to the opposite where we started to sweat it would be in the 20s and traded it before that could happen.

Also 17th is well within the sweet spot for this draft, which runs at least 20 deep where no one can agree on the order after the first 7ish picks, e.g. Pronman just put Wood at 21 and Sale at 27 in his mock draft yesterday (which is not going to happen but illustrates the point).
 

Raistlin

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If he really works out for us it is maybe as good as the Miller acquisition, but with many less surplus value years.
The only way Hronek works out for the team like Miller, is if Hughes vacates the PP1QB spot. something freakin drastic has to materialize for that to happen. I believe he will be a fair addition considering his future cap, he won't hurt us, but with the way this team is structured, they need surplus value everywhere to compete with the Vegas and Colorados, I am betting he won't be surplus value, WYSIWYG for a 27 year old when his new contract kicks in.
 

Nick Lang

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The idea that we "won" and detroit "lost" a gamble on the Isles pick is nonsense.

The Isles pick is 17th and at best could have been 13th due to trade protection. That's 4 slots.... and again, versus absolute best case scenario -it was never likely to be exactly 13th.

This is not remotely "we won the gamble on the depreciating asset" territory, if anything it's closer to the opposite where we started to sweat it would be in the 20s and traded it before that could happen.

Also 17th is well within the sweet spot for this draft, which runs at least 20 deep where no one can agree on the order after the first 7ish picks, e.g. Pronman just put Wood at 21 and Sale at 27 in his mock draft yesterday (which is not going to happen but illustrates the point).

13 is still better than 17 and could end up being worth a second or third rounder to the right team. In that sense we definitely won the gamble on where it was originally and where it ended up.
 

MarkusNaslund19

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The only way Hronek works out for the team like Miller, is if Hughes vacates the PP1QB spot. something freakin drastic has to materialize for that to happen. I believe he will be a fair addition considering his future cap, he won't hurt us, but with the way this team is structured, they need surplus value everywhere to compete with the Vegas and Colorados, I am betting he won't be surplus value, WYSIWYG for a 27 year old when his new contract kicks in.
I have said many many times, Hronek has proven to be an upper-echelon even strength scorer as a D-man, so no pp time isn't make or break in terms of point production.

But he's about a lot more than that, he is a genuine building block on the right side, something we haven't had since young Tanev (when we had nothing else other than aging Sedins).





Ready to eat up 6+ million cap Hronek for 17th and a mid 2nd pick in a really deep draft year is a really good deal for Detroit. It's not a horrible deal for Vancouver, it's for a decent player, but at a very wrong time, in terms of where the pipeline is at and the cap health of the team.
It's probably a good trade both ways. Look, as draft day approaches I have spent a lot of time studying prospects and 2 more high swings would be nice. With that said, I'm also not convinced that we don't acquire a 2nd rounder at the very least.

But we have a team that is in its trajectory now. You can disagree with that and wish we dumped Hughes and Petey etc, but this is a team that is building to really hit the ground running within the next 2 or 3 years.

We were completely undermined by the weakness of our right side D and it's been a problem for ages. So this needed to be addressed or else it would be returning the ferrari onto the track with 3 wheels and wondering why you keep listing to the side.

Now, people argue for Severson or Dumba, but both are flawed players and I predict both get signed to unpalatable contracts. I would much prefer a gm take a swing on a still developing young player whom they deeply believe in, rather than trying to outbid the high-rollers for a walmart rack of players.


The idea that we "won" and detroit "lost" a gamble on the Isles pick is nonsense.

The Isles pick is 17th and at best could have been 13th due to trade protection. That's 4 slots.... and again, versus absolute best case scenario -it was never likely to be exactly 13th.

This is not remotely "we won the gamble on the depreciating asset" territory, if anything it's closer to the opposite where we started to sweat it would be in the 20s and traded it before that could happen.

Also 17th is well within the sweet spot for this draft, which runs at least 20 deep where no one can agree on the order after the first 7ish picks, e.g. Pronman just put Wood at 21 and Sale at 27 in his mock draft yesterday (which is not going to happen but illustrates the point).

You totally neglect to consider that the draft was protected after 13th, so if they had finished with the 12th pick, there was a real world possibility where this veteran laden team was very delusional about its capabilities and its trajectory and the wheels fell off and we ended up with a high lottery pick in 2024. That possibility was baked into the trade as well.
 

BHFAN92

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If 11OA is moved it will be to trade back and add draft picks.
Blackhawks fan here so knowingly come in being "hated".. this speculation is hot topic on our board. I think something realistic would be Blackhawks trading #19 and #35 for pick #11 and a cap dump like Conor Garland. On face you are losing on a better prospect no doubt about it, but you do gain 2 picks for price of 1 and shed valuable salary cap. Players projected at #19 are still in good range (Barlow, Musty, Ritchie, Perron) and pick #35 has value since Canucks have no 2nd rd pick currently and this is a super deep draft. I see most fans on Blackhawks page thinking Canucks will just give us #11 for taking on big cap hits, but I don't think that's realistic hence why I included #19 and #35
 
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strattonius

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Blackhawks fan here so knowingly come in being "hated".. this speculation is hot topic on our board. I think something realistic would be Blackhawks trading #19 and #35 for pick #11 and a cap dump like Conor Garland. On face you are losing on a better prospect no doubt about it, but you do gain 2 picks for price of 1 and shed valuable salary cap. Players projected at #19 are still in good range (Barlow, Musty, Ritchie, Perron) and pick #35 has value since Canucks have no 2nd rd pick currently and this is a super deep draft. I see most fans on Blackhawks page thinking Canucks will just give us #11 for taking on big cap hits, but I don't think that's realistic hence why I included #19 and #35

The value from pick 11 to 19 is substantial - it's when the prospect list starts to fall off. Even 11th is at the tail end of elite prospects in this deep draft.

You aren't getting that pick separation PLUS Garland. I realize he's a CAP dump in this scenario but he's actually not a bad player. Our management is clearly in a retooling and make playoffs philosophy if they make this trade you'd be taking back Myers (who wouldn't waive to Chicago).
 

Fatass

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Blackhawks fan here so knowingly come in being "hated".. this speculation is hot topic on our board. I think something realistic would be Blackhawks trading #19 and #35 for pick #11 and a cap dump like Conor Garland. On face you are losing on a better prospect no doubt about it, but you do gain 2 picks for price of 1 and shed valuable salary cap. Players projected at #19 are still in good range (Barlow, Musty, Ritchie, Perron) and pick #35 has value since Canucks have no 2nd rd pick currently and this is a super deep draft. I see most fans on Blackhawks page thinking Canucks will just give us #11 for taking on big cap hits, but I don't think that's realistic hence why I included #19 and #35
If that was presented to Allvin, I hope he would counter with switching Boeser for Garland. I wonder if the Hawks would prefer Boeser anyway? He might be a better fit with Bedard. Plus, only two years left on his contract as opposed to Garland's 3. But either way, that would be a fair trade.
 
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mriswith

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13 is still better than 17 and could end up being worth a second or third rounder to the right team. In that sense we definitely won the gamble on where it was originally and where it ended up.
It is completely unrealistic to expect it to have stayed at exactly 13th in any scenario. 13-15 was the ideal. 17 is close enough to the ideal that it absolutely did not motivate a trade to capture the ~2 spots advantage like someone else was trying to say.

Especially in this draft.

You totally neglect to consider that the draft was protected after 13th, so if they had finished with the 12th pick, there was a real world possibility where this veteran laden team was very delusional about its capabilities and its trajectory and the wheels fell off and we ended up with a high lottery pick in 2024. That possibility was baked into the trade as well.
There's no way that the protection on the pick added value to it let alone enough value to motivate a trade. I would have been very unhappy if we had kept it and it bumped to next year. 17th in this draft is better than 10th next year so the Isles have to be a lot worse next year than this year, and it's far from guaranteed that the Isles are worse at all next year.
 

MS

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Blackhawks fan here so knowingly come in being "hated".. this speculation is hot topic on our board. I think something realistic would be Blackhawks trading #19 and #35 for pick #11 and a cap dump like Conor Garland. On face you are losing on a better prospect no doubt about it, but you do gain 2 picks for price of 1 and shed valuable salary cap. Players projected at #19 are still in good range (Barlow, Musty, Ritchie, Perron) and pick #35 has value since Canucks have no 2nd rd pick currently and this is a super deep draft. I see most fans on Blackhawks page thinking Canucks will just give us #11 for taking on big cap hits, but I don't think that's realistic hence why I included #19 and #35

Conor Garland should not be a cap dump, or at the very worst not one that requires a high pick to move.
 

mriswith

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Oct 12, 2011
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Blackhawks fan here so knowingly come in being "hated".. this speculation is hot topic on our board. I think something realistic would be Blackhawks trading #19 and #35 for pick #11 and a cap dump like Conor Garland. On face you are losing on a better prospect no doubt about it, but you do gain 2 picks for price of 1 and shed valuable salary cap. Players projected at #19 are still in good range (Barlow, Musty, Ritchie, Perron) and pick #35 has value since Canucks have no 2nd rd pick currently and this is a super deep draft. I see most fans on Blackhawks page thinking Canucks will just give us #11 for taking on big cap hits, but I don't think that's realistic hence why I included #19 and #35
If we trade the 11th it should be for a good young player instead of a cap dump.

Garland should have positive value, Boeser should be cheap to dump, Myers should be cheap to dump, and OEL won't waive.

Doesn't make sense to use the 11th to dump cap.
 
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