Will Brunner be back?

[mindfly]

I've got to hand it to you for making a lineup that still has Abdelkader playing with Datsyuk.

You're a brave man, mindfly.

Well he does create time and space for Datsyuk, and Datsyuk can still pass the puck to Horton - who bury it.

 

[Flowah]

I would happily pay 3 million a year for 35 goals. Of course, he'd have to skate hard for more than 24 games to do that no?

"I concede the defensive issue is overblown if he's really a dynamite scorer. But if he's going to float for more than half the games, he won't score enough to justify that. 35 goal guys can suck on defense. 20 goal guys who only put together 25 good games certainly can't"

He played a ton of games already over in Switzerland before coming over.

And he's just not used to playing that many games in a single year. That takes time to get used to. We always knew that. That's why typically we have guys play in the AHL for a while to get used to the pace and schedule of the NHL.

Well he does create time and space for Datsyuk, and Datsyuk can still pass the puck to Horton - who bury it.

Maybe. I'm not sold on the time and space. I think Datsyuk creates his own. But even still, when I hear "optimal" lineups, I do not think Abdelkader in the top6.

 

[mindfly]

He played a ton of games already over in Switzerland before coming over.

And he's just not used to playing that many games in a single year. That takes time to get used to. We always knew that. That's why typically we have guys play in the AHL for a while to get used to the pace and schedule of the NHL.

Maybe. I'm not sold on the time and space. I think Datsyuk creates his own. But even still, when I hear "optimal" lineups, I do not think Abdelkader in the top6.

I haven't done any numbers with my suggestions, but there could be some millions left to get another solid player... I guess Tatar can play with Datsyuk too and bump Abdelkader down, depends on which team they're facing I guess... will be easier against Tampa and Florida compared to Boston

 

[Winger98]

Maybe. I'm not sold on the time and space. I think Datsyuk creates his own. But even still, when I hear "optimal" lineups, I do not think Abdelkader in the top6.

While he can't play that way for 82 games (I don't think anyone can), if Abdelkader is closer to the player we saw the last couple of weeks in the regular season and through the playoffs than what we saw in the first 30 or so games, my problems with him next to Datsyuk shrink a bit. I think he earned the opportunity to show his play late in the season wasn't a total fluke.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I'm not so worried about Brunner's defense, but rather his ability to maintain possession in the offensive zone. He doesn't seem to have that killer core strength that good possession players have. Hope he's got a great trainer.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

He's earned nothing.
He's out of place. I think playing with Datsyuk is some kind of reward that some 4th line plug "earns" by having a good couple weeks.

We need a real goal scorer for Datsyuk. We need a guy who can get the puck to Datsyuk, because Datsyuk is the man who makes things happen.

Watching Abdelkader kill the Datsyuk line all year was brutal.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=67432389&postcount=33

Obviously now Miller is re-signed, so some further tweaking must be done.

But basically, use both buy-outs, waive/trade scrubs, get rid of dead weight and RFA's who got no future with the wings, also get rid of some smaller players who can't play D.

If there are any money left, try to get a defensive defenseman who blocks alot of shots and isn't a lieability.

So you have a Zetterberg line.
You kill the Datsyuk line with Abdelkader.
And then you have two checking lines.

We're going to have one attack line. Good plan.

 

[Heaton]

The biggest reason why losing Brunner is a huge deal is because the guys who are like him on the market will end up costing a lot more. I don't know what Brunner wants exactly, but him being 27 might price him out since he wants his one big deal.

 

[Henkka]

The biggest reason why losing Brunner is a huge deal is because the guys who are like him on the market will end up costing a lot more. I don't know what Brunner wants exactly, but him being 27 might price him out since he wants his one big deal.

If I would be our GM I would pay the biggest price to keep him here. Hear the highest offer and then match it. Easy money.

Because he will be the best pure scorer for Red Wings in two seasons. Best kept secret in NHL. Just wait and see.

I just can't see Brunner overpricing himself at the free market, because other organizations does not know his real potential as well as the Wings will do. His caphit will not be any kind of problem for us.

He will sign, I'm pretty sure about it. There's no need to be too dramatic with this situation.

 

[crashman]

The biggest reason why losing Brunner is a huge deal is because the guys who are like him on the market will end up costing a lot more. I don't know what Brunner wants exactly, but him being 27 might price him out since he wants his one big deal.

Brunner has absolutely no right to a long-term deal. I've said this many times, but he's exactly the type of player that's prone to complete failure in the NHL. If the Wings give him good money long-term, they're throwing values out the window that they've held for years. Loyalty is two-way street, and Brunner hasn't earned any yet.

I don't care what he did in 58 games, he's gotta prove he can do it for 82+ games, whilst being treated as a scoring threat by the opposition.

 

[Heaton]

Brunner has absolutely no right to a long-term deal. I've said this many times, but he's exactly the type of player that's prone to complete failure in the NHL. If the Wings give him good money long-term, they're throwing values out the window that they've held for years. Loyalty is two-way street, and Brunner hasn't earned any yet.

He's not getting a long-term deal, unless you consider 3 years long term. The only way he gets 4 years is if he takes less $$. I think he's worth it, he's shown more in a short time than most players do in their first year in the league. I don't see the same question marks you guys do.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

If Brunner had played his first year under normal circumstances (82 game season), I would be way less worried about overpaying to keep him. He hasn't earned the right to get a fat pay day, but other GM's will gladly offer him an insane contract.

Unfortunately losing Flip and Brunner during the same offseason pretty much means the Wings are screwed. Wings are in a very bad position.

 

[Heaton]

If Brunner had played his first year under normal circumstances (82 game season), I would be way less worried about overpaying to keep him. He hasn't earned the right to get a fat pay day, but other GM's will gladly offer him an insane contract.

Earned the right is an unnecessary term these days, he's 27 years old and a UFA, how many 27 year old UFAs with Brunner's skillset hit the market and DON'T get paid? Ville Leino got paid after one decent season and one good playoffs playing with Briere and Hartnell. I think Brunner is much better than Leino (mainly because he's not whiny and can actually skate) so I think he's going to get a ton if he hits the open market.

 

[crashman]

He's not getting a long-term deal, unless you consider 3 years long term. The only way he gets 4 years is if he takes less $$. I think he's worth it, he's shown more in a short time than most players do in their first year in the league. I don't see the same question marks you guys do.

Most players first year isn't at the age of 27, and they don't get a trial period with the teams No. 1 center before the season starts either. 3 years will seem like an eternity if it goes Leino on us.

Unfortunately losing Flip and Brunner during the same offseason pretty much means the Wings are screwed. Wings are in a very bad position.

Tatar and Nyquist won't have a hard time replacing their production, not to mention any other UFA/buyout signings the Wings could make. No reason be be doom and gloom about loosing Brunner and Filppula when there's lots of other options out there.

 

[Heaton]

Most players first year isn't at the age of 27, and they don't get a trial period with the teams No. 1 center before the season starts either. 3 years will seem like an eternity if it goes Leino on us.

I don't see the benefit of a conservative approach. If we lose Brunner, we re-gain Cleary 100%. Gotta take a chance on guys since the odds that Nyquist and Tatar get the same role as Brunner next year is less likely. Basically, the alternative to losing Brunner is a much greater risk than signing him for 3 years.

 

[crashman]

I don't see the benefit of a conservative approach. If we lose Brunner, we re-gain Cleary 100%. Gotta take a chance on guys since the odds that Nyquist and Tatar get the same role as Brunner next year is less likely. Basically, the alternative to losing Brunner is a much greater risk than signing him for 3 years.

I don't want to seem like I hate Brunner, I just hate the idea of a $3m Brunner while we have Tatar who's actually earned the right to play, can probably be equally as effective (but as a complete player), and costs under $1m.

There's a ton of risk in signing Brunner to a multi-year deal, especially if the Wings use both of their compliance buyouts. They better save one, that's all I can say.

If I were a GM, there's no way I'd sign Brunner before free-agency. I'd want to see who's available and I really believe the Wings hold all the chips. I think Brunner came to NA to be a Red Wing. His agent can play his games, but Brunner would probably just go back to Switzerland if he's not re-signed by the Wings.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Earned the right is an unnecessary term these days, he's 27 years old and a UFA, how many 27 year old UFAs with Brunner's skillset hit the market and DON'T get paid? Ville Leino got paid after one decent season and one good playoffs playing with Briere and Hartnell. I think Brunner is much better than Leino (mainly because he's not whiny and can actually skate) so I think he's going to get a ton if he hits the open market.

You aren't wrong, but I'm looking at it from a production standpoint. I just think the lockout shortened season might have really helped mask Brunner's real potential in the NHL.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Most players first year isn't at the age of 27, and they don't get a trial period with the teams No. 1 center before the season starts either. 3 years will seem like an eternity if it goes Leino on us.



Tatar and Nyquist won't have a hard time replacing their production, not to mention any other UFA/buyout signings the Wings could make. No reason be be doom and gloom about loosing Brunner and Filppula when there's lots of other options out there.

Holland is gonna have to overpay for the good FA's. I am expecting him to sign nobody and make some excuses and talk about Sammy and Bert filling out the top six.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

What implies Brunner is at risk to go to free agency?

 

[crashman]

Holland is gonna have to overpay for the good FA's. I am expecting him to sign nobody and make some excuses and talk about Sammy and Bert filling out the top six.

Of course you are, but I'm talking about reality. If what you're saying comes true, I'll be disappointed too, but think Holland is a good GM and will improve this team this off-season.

 

[Henkka]

Earned the right is an unnecessary term these days, he's 27 years old and a UFA, how many 27 year old UFAs with Brunner's skillset hit the market and DON'T get paid? Ville Leino got paid after one decent season and one good playoffs playing with Briere and Hartnell. I think Brunner is much better than Leino (mainly because he's not whiny and can actually skate) so I think he's going to get a ton if he hits the open market.

Difference is, that Leino was the 2nd best point producing forward at his UFA summer.

In a tight market with rising cap. That always pushes the price up.

This summer, the situation is totally different.

1. Brunner didn't produce at good as Leino.
2. Cap is coming down.
3. Market is deeper than ever because of buyouts and falling cap.

Brunner hits in a lot worse market situation, so his final earnings will be lower, no matter what team will sign him. Almost all teams have cap problems.

I think 3-year deal is the best fit for Wings. If he blossoms, we get 3 glory years from him. Then he can let walk if he will want that career-contract with huge millions. And at the same time, we have some nice goal-scoring prospects coming up from Grand Rapids (like Frk) who could replace him.

It really does not matter how much we pay for him. We should pay the biggest money others are willing to pay. He will be worth of it, I'm pretty sure about it. But after he becomes that 30-40 goal scorer, we will become unavailable to keep him. Then it's time to let him walk. But that time will come after these 3 years we enjoy about his extension.

 

[BSHH]

You aren't wrong, but I'm looking at it from a production standpoint. I just think the lockout shortened season might have really helped mask Brunner's real potential in the NHL.

Since he started the season in the NLA with Zug, Brunner has played more games last season than most other NHL players. He also had to adjust to the NHL and his new team on the fly without any preparation. He suffered a slump, but came back in the playoffs.

Noone can foresee the future, but I think it is safe to assume that Brunner will probably have a similar or even better production next season, because he has gained NHL experience, will have a proper preparation and will need less adjustment to Babcock's system. You obviously have doubts about that; do you have any specific reasons for these doubts?

What implies Brunner is at risk to go to free agency?

Brunner is 27 and for the first time in his life, he has the chance to sign a multi-million dollar contract. While he certainly is not poor at all, this is his opportunity to achieve economic independence. As an athlete, his career may be over with any freak injury, so Brunner would be stupid not to look out for a good contract right now.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[SportsballChic]

Brunner is 27 and for the first time in his life, he has the chance to sign a multi-million dollar contract. While he certainly is not poor at all, this is his opportunity to achieve economic independence. As an athlete, his career may be over with any freak injury, so Brunner would be stupid not to look out for a good contract right now.

Gruß,
BSHH

Plus, I think people forget that every single personnel guy in the NHL watches the playoffs. You can have a "sneaky good" season and maybe stay under the radar but everyone saw what we saw in the playoffs.

If St James is right (and this is kind new info and I have no clue where she got those numbers) it's a great deal for us. $2.5 a year is fair and I'd gladly give him 4 at that number frankly. The issue I have is if SOMEONE is going to give him say 5 years and $3.5 do we match that? how about 4 and 4?

My fear has always been that someone will pay him more than we're prepared to risk. If that's not gonna happen and we can have him for $2.5; sign me up for the ticket tape parade I'm in.

 

[Heaton]

Plus, I think people forget that every single personnel guy in the NHL watches the playoffs. You can have a "sneaky good" season and maybe stay under the radar but everyone saw what we saw in the playoffs.

If St James is right (and this is kind new info and I have no clue where she got those numbers) it's a great deal for us. $2.5 a year is fair and I'd gladly give him 4 at that number frankly. The issue I have is if SOMEONE is going to give him say 5 years and $3.5 do we match that? how about 4 and 4?

My fear has always been that someone will pay him more than we're prepared to risk. If that's not gonna happen and we can have him for $2.5; sign me up for the ticket tape parade I'm in.

I'm kinda at a loss for what the Wings should be doing then. We're at a point where we obviously need to open up spots for the kids, but we also need to acquire established point producers. In most cases we can't do that unless we pay at or above market value. So that leaves us with picking our spots, obviously last year for Suter and Parise you pay them what they ask for or you don't get them. Obviously Brunner isn't in that position and there's other guys available that you can bank on easier. I think with as conservative as the Wings have been I'd rather take on a potential 'bad' contract if it makes the team better. I don't know if that's Brunner or someone else, but we can't sit here and just hope a player buys in to the franchise concept and just takes what makes sense only for the Wings.

 

[BF3]

If St James is right (and this is kind new info and I have no clue where she got those numbers) it's a great deal for us. $2.5 a year is fair and I'd gladly give him 4 at that number frankly. The issue I have is if SOMEONE is going to give him say 5 years and $3.5 do we match that? how about 4 and 4?

Where is this 4 year, $10MM coming from? Is this speculation or based on credible sources? I can't believe Detroit wouldn't do that deal.