Why is USA spitting out big talents out of sudden?

[The Abusement Park]

As soccer becomes more popular in the US the past few years, I've noticed how severely underrated past USMNT players are becoming by American fans.

Clint Dempsey scored 17 PL goals one season for Fulham a season after playing for them in a Europa league final, but everyones going crazy now because Josh Sargent scored 4 goals for f***ing Werder Bremen

Yeah I think the overall depth of US soccer is starting to go up but outside of maybe Pulisic and maybe McKennie we still don’t have a Dempsey, McBride or Donovan level player. Even in goal we’re behind where we were as we don’t have and Howard’s, Friedels or Kellers. I mean maybe Steffen but I’m not sure if he’s there yet.

 

[Chimaera]

I think high level soccer being on TV, it being all over media, and actually being something kids think they can get to the top level in has helped. Sure, some of the players of the past have thought they could compete, but the young players now actually think they can go to Barca or Juve and cut it.

They're still a ways away, and they still have a way to go. But it's good to see American players at the top clubs in the world (something they haven't been in the past) though there will be more down the road. The US has always had young players playing, the difference is, there's a bunch of kids who can actually make the leap, and clubs looking to give them the shot. Just as much as it's a big deal to see players doing well, in the past, some of them would go over and sit the bench or not get time. Now, some are getting looks they didn't in the past.

 

[Live in the Now]

Yeah I think the overall depth of US soccer is starting to go up but outside of maybe Pulisic and maybe McKennie we still don’t have a Dempsey, McBride or Donovan level player. Even in goal we’re behind where we were as we don’t have and Howard’s, Friedels or Kellers. I mean maybe Steffen but I’m not sure if he’s there yet.

Also had better CB's back then. Eddie Pope was much better than anyone we have now. Another key component is that those players in the past were really good at following instructions.

 

[kingsboy11]

I like to think that guys like Pulisic, McKennie and Adams are the product of a system that's finally starting to work, but it honestly could just be a coincidence. Pulisic and Reyna are both the sons of parents who played soccer at a high level, McKennie was good at every sport and he just happened to like soccer the most and Adams was insanely driven, literally, to make an impact at NY Red Bulls. This current generation could easily just be happenstance where everyone progresses at around the same time. But I think it stems to Pulisic's success at Dortmund that has now spurred the rest of the world to take notice of the potential of our players. The fact that Bryan Reynolds who had only played a handful of professional games for FC Dallas and gets sold to Roma for like 6 or 7 million would've been unfathomable a decade ago.

There's talent coming up and I do think we'll do better in the upcoming World Cups, but this needs to start becoming more of a regular thing rather than just a one off like 2002 was.

 

[Live in the Now]

I like to think that guys like Pulisic, McKennie and Adams are the product of a system that's finally starting to work, but it honestly could just be a coincidence. Pulisic and Reyna are both the sons of parents who played soccer at a high level, McKennie was good at every sport and he just happened to like soccer the most and Adams was insanely driven, literally, to make an impact at NY Red Bulls. This current generation could easily just be happenstance where everyone progresses at around the same time. But I think it stems to Pulisic's success at Dortmund that has now spurred the rest of the world to take notice of the potential of our players. The fact that Bryan Reynolds who had only played a handful of professional games for FC Dallas and gets sold to Roma for like 6 or 7 million would've been unfathomable a decade ago.

There's talent coming up and I do think we'll do better in the upcoming World Cups, but this needs to start becoming more of a regular thing rather than just a one off like 2002 was.

The team also needs to be good enough to withstand injuries to key players prior to these tournaments. Because that happens all the time to every team. Are we? Well, no. It's pretty much a disaster if any of our best players get hurt because of how much worse players we have as depth. If we're talking about the team being good as opposed to just having a lot of good players, building up depth is one of the most important aspects of that.

The whole team's attacking is entirely reliant on one player too.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

They don't have a Messi. Nothing wrong about what I said. Messi has carried Argentina's generation for like 10-15 years.

I'll let you in on an little secrete Messi is a freak of nature. No one has a Messi before or after. Argentina was blessed with him but no its not happening again.

More recent Argentine products haven't been that great. We went over this months ago. I believe the discussion was transfermarkt values for top U23 players, and USA was objectively higher.

What the hell is transmarkt? Honestly how is that any to hang anyone's hat on? Not only that its heavily biased. Even with Argentina prospects not being that great there is little chance the best American player who is Pullisic? Hits the heights of a Dybala who is considered "weak".

Look at the amount of U23 regular players on the UCL Last 16 teams, what are supposed to be the 16 best club teams in the world. 1 from Argentina (Romero), 5 from USA (Pulisic, Reyna, McKennie, Adams, Dest). How many countries have more than 5 U23 regulars from the Last 16 of the UCL? I don't have the time to go through every country, but I'd guess USA is top 6-7 in this measure among all countries.

Again this just cherry picking things to paint a narrative. Argentina still produce more high end talent and at a far bigger clip.

You can write it off as nothing, like apparently all these measures are written off, but the point remains that the indicators there for future success indicate the USA is moving their way up towards that top tier. Meanwhile, Argentina is moving their way in the other direction. Does it mean USA will be better than Argentina eventually? Maybe or maybe not, but to suggest its ludicrous is in fact ludicrous.

Here highlights how little you know about Argentina's prospects. It very much on the rise. Pretty spectacular you think its declining. Im not one for lists but I posted on the prospects thread few months back. USA cant touch their depth nor their high end production.

 

[Machinehead]

320 million people and football is really popular here now? No mystery.

It'll get even better eventually.

 

[adsfan]

You are right but I will say the 'acquisitions' of Musah and Johannsson were questionable Musah happened to be born in the US when his parents were on vacation and I doubt he visited the country since; Johannsson is a similar story (his parents were students in the US and he moved to Iceland pretty much immediately I think) and his decision I think backfired on him, although he did play in a World Cup he missed out on Iceland's 3-4 year success story...though with his injuries I doubt he would have had much playing time there either

I recall Johannsson being born in Birmingham, Alabama, y'all.

 

[adsfan]

For a rich country that has a 350M population, the metric should not be performance at the World Cup. The NT is the 23 best players in any given country.

Countries like France, Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain (and others) could field 5 teams each that would beat the USMNT more often than not. For a country their size and with their resources, the USA are still very underwhelming soccer wise.

Considering the structures, their WC performances are indeed good.

P.S.: I know Canada is worse in terms of infrastructures and ESPECIALLY WC performance (we made it once) for a rich country. It is getting better, but we have a long way to go. Heck, our professional league is... 2 years old and the biggest cities do not even play in it.

The US had 331 million people at the start of 2020.

The United States has participated in every World Cup since 1990 until 2014, but they did not qualify for the 2018 competition for the first time since 1986 after a loss to Trinidad and Tobago.

1990 Group stage 23rd 3 0 0 3
1994 Round of 16 14th 4 1 1 2 Qualified as hosts
1998 Group stage 32nd 3 0 0 3
2002 Quarter-finals 8th 5 2 1 2
2006 Group stage 25th 3 0 1 2
2010 Round of 16 12th 4 1 2 1
2014 Round of 16 15th 4 1 1 2
2018 Did not qualify
2022 To be determined
2026 Qualified as co-host

I was disappointed in 1990, especially when they lost to Iran. The 1998 tourney was horrible.
Then 2002 seemed like a break through. South Africa in 2010 seemed like another step forward.
Then 2014 in Brazil seemed like terrible scheduling. The US finally beat Ghana and tied Portugal. They lost to Germany 1-0 and then lost to Belgium 2-1 in the knock out round.

Klinsmann wrecked US soccer. His hiring from 2011-16 was a big setback.

I will agree that the US has under performed during the last 30 years. The US can be in the top 10 in world soccer. They just need to play a solid game on a regular basis. In the old days, a team like Brazil would go out drinking the night before playing the US. They don't do that anymore.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I totally spaced that they didn't make it in 2018. 2.5 years later they have better prospects than Spain, Argentina who else? Someone is watching too much Rockey imo.

 

[Albatros]

Klinsmann wrecked US soccer. His hiring from 2011-16 was a big setback.

The program is garbage to start with if one national team manager can wreck it.

 

[S E P H]

Which top talents have been immigrants?

Pulisic was born in PA.
McKennie was born in TX.
Adam’s was born in NY.
Reynolds was born in TX.
Reyna was born in the UK but only because his dad was playing there, but he’s American.
Dest was American by his dad but never lived here.

None of the talents mentioned in this thread remotely qualify as imigrants.

USA's best player or the player with the highest potential is Dest and fluke chose you lot over the Dutch.

 

[kingsboy11]

USA's best player or the player with the highest potential is Dest and fluke chose you lot over the Dutch.

Dest was in the US youth national teams for years. Dutch only got interested in him when they realized he was actually good, I'm not surprised in the slightest he chose us.

 

[keonsbitterness]

320 million people and football is really popular here now? No mystery.

It'll get even better eventually.

Not unless the MLS can compete with the NFL, NBA, MLB, PGA, college football and college basketball in terms of national broadcast revenues. Until then, the MLS will remain a niche sport, and will only be able to attract a limited number of prime American athletes. Even if the U.S. produced a Messi and a Ronaldo tomorrow, they'd be off to Europe as soon as they could, and thus of limited benefit to MLS.

 

[hatterson]

USA's best player or the player with the highest potential is Dest and fluke chose you lot over the Dutch.

He’s American by birth and was in the us development program for years as a youngster.

Even if he could have chosen another country to represent, he’s not remotely an immigrant.

 

[East Coast Bias]

320 million people and football is really popular here now? No mystery.

It'll get even better eventually.

Honestly it’s not about popularity. It’s about accessibility. It’s always been a sport you have to pay a lot of money to play in the highest levels.

 

[adsfan]

The program is garbage to start with if one national team manager can wreck it.

You don't seem to understand what happened!

Klinsmann put 5 German-Americans on the team and excluded Landon Donovan, the top goal scorer in US international history. Klinsmann's players mostly played like hot garbage and the US scored 5 goals in 4 games.

The US (#14 in FIFA) beat Ghana 2-1. It was the third time the US played them in the WC and their only win against the Black Stars. Clint Dempsey scored (1') and then John Brooks (80') scored on a header for the US. Brooks was a sub that Klinsmann was forced to play after the starter was injured.

The US was able to get a draw against Portugal (#3) at 2-2, but the should have won 2-1. Portugal tied that game in stoppage time. Jermaine Jones (64'), who was put on the US team by Bob Bradley, and Clint Dempsey (81'), who would eventually tie Donovan's 57 goals, scored for the US.

The US lost to Germany (#2) 1-0, Klinsmann's old team. That was totally on Klinsmann for not having a team that was capable of a draw against his old team. He knew their players and he knew how to play them, but he didn't have enough offensive weapons. (See Landon Donovan).

Round of 16
The US lost to Belgium (#12) 2-1 with Julian Green scoring (107'). He is the youngest US player to score a WC goal. I will give Klinsmann credit for his being on the team. This was the game when US goalie Tim Howard made a WC record 15 saves.

With Donovan on the team, the US scores 2 or 3 more goals and maybe gets to the quarterfinals. The US had a win and a draw despite Klinsmann's coaching!

 

[ecemleafs]

soccer is more popular than ever at a high level (EPL/MLS being on tv all the time). MLS academies are better than ever at producing talent and getting them playing time at a young age. our top young players are also testing themselves in europe at a young age and getting a solid chance (especially in germany). while we may not start producing world class players in the levels that brazil, argentina, spain, france, etc produce i think we will produce good to great players going forward with the set up, popularity, and population we have.

 

[ecemleafs]

You don't seem to understand what happened!

Klinsmann put 5 German-Americans on the team and excluded Landon Donovan, the top goal scorer in US international history. Klinsmann's players mostly played like hot garbage and the US scored 5 goals in 4 games.

The US (#14 in FIFA) beat Ghana 2-1. It was the third time the US played them in the WC and their only win against the Black Stars. Clint Dempsey scored (1') and then John Brooks (80') scored on a header for the US. Brooks was a sub that Klinsmann was forced to play after the starter was injured.

The US was able to get a draw against Portugal (#3) at 2-2, but the should have won 2-1. Portugal tied that game in stoppage time. Jermaine Jones (64'), who was put on the US team by Bob Bradley, and Clint Dempsey (81'), who would eventually tie Donovan's 57 goals, scored for the US.

The US lost to Germany (#2) 1-0, Klinsmann's old team. That was totally on Klinsmann for not having a team that was capable of a draw against his old team. He knew their players and he knew how to play them, but he didn't have enough offensive weapons. (See Landon Donovan).

Round of 16
The US lost to Belgium (#12) 2-1 with Julian Green scoring (107'). He is the youngest US player to score a WC goal. I will give Klinsmann credit for his being on the team. This was the game when US goalie Tim Howard made a WC record 15 saves.

With Donovan on the team, the US scores 2 or 3 more goals and maybe gets to the quarterfinals. The US had a win and a draw despite Klinsmann's coaching!

man this is a crazy take if ur not trolling. ghana had beaten us in the previous 2 world cups and we beat them. we were unlucky not to beat portugal, who went on to win the euros 2 years later. germany won the world cup that year and annihilated brazil in brazil in the semifinals. belgium had much better players than us.

 

[adsfan]

man this is a crazy take if ur not trolling. ghana had beaten us in the previous 2 world cups and we beat them. we were unlucky not to beat portugal, who went on to win the euros 2 years later. germany won the world cup that year and annihilated brazil in brazil in the semifinals. belgium had much better players than us.

No trolling, just facts.

All three WC games against Ghana were 2-1 scores. I watched them all on a wide screen TV with my adult soccer team. I remember thinking "how do we keep losing to these guys?" Ghana outplayed the US in that 2014 game with 2/3 possession time, 21 shots and 7 corners. They also passed better than the US, but the American side scored 2 goals.

Belgium dominated that game with 39 attempted shots and 6 corners. The US was beaten down by their incompetent coach, having to play Ghana in the Amazon to start, traveling all around Brazil as well as playing in "the Group of Death". It is surprising that they even advanced to the Round of 16. They were just exhausted by the physical and mental stress. Klinsmann didn't use his 23 man roster much until players were injured (Altidore with a hamstring and Matt Besler could not play the second half against Ghana). Without Donovan on the team, there was nobody to replace Altidore's scoring ability in the striker spot. Belgium was rated 12th by FIFA and the US was 14th, so it should have been an even match.

It isn't my fault that Brazil let in 7 goals at home. They seemed to do everything wrong in that game against Germany. The US could not score a goal against Germany. (Remember Altidore was injured and no Donovan, so everything was on Dempsey's shoulders.)

Klinsmann is the worst thing that happened to US soccer in my lifetime!

 

[S E P H]

Ghana is much better than the USA. US can't even get into the World Cup, I am not believing anything until I see it.

The problem is that there are so many sports in the USA that have some good attention in different parts of the country that it's hard to steal players away from their respected sports. For example; citizens in Texas/South/Midwest/Ohio Valley will put their kids in throwball than football because that's the culture, Florida/Arizona kids will still be registered for baseball camps, Michigan/Boston kids aren't ditching hockey for football as well, and likewise with New York/Los Angeles kids for basketball. So honestly the best chances of getting talent in the USA is from Latino immigrants - which football is already a religion for him - or parts of the country where the game is quite popular (Seattle and Atlanta).

 

[Machinehead]

Not unless the MLS can compete with the NFL, NBA, MLB, PGA, college football and college basketball in terms of national broadcast revenues. Until then, the MLS will remain a niche sport, and will only be able to attract a limited number of prime American athletes. Even if the U.S. produced a Messi and a Ronaldo tomorrow, they'd be off to Europe as soon as they could, and thus of limited benefit to MLS.

MLS isn't the biggest league here in its own sport and it never will be.

Popularity in the US took off when the Premier League got a major tv deal.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Popularity in the US took off when the Premier League got a major tv deal.

Bingo!

 

[Machinehead]

Bingo!

Ok...I don't see the problem.

All of the world's best players are exports unless you're English, Spanish, French, German, or Italian. Following the big 5 isn't unique to American fans at all. Do you have any idea how many former-Yugoslav Liverpool fans I know?

That doesn't stop programs in South America or in other parts of Europe from having success.

 

[Halladay]

It's only been 7 and half years since the premiere league has been on NBC. Going to need more time than that to see the full potential effects.

I'm not sure he want too as he will probably be highly sought out in the future in Europe but Jesse Marsch could help with the coaching issue whenever the time comes to change again.