Why is USA spitting out big talents out of sudden?

[East Coast Bias]

It's still a niche sport in the US. The organization at lower levels has gotten better and I think the MLS academies have helped.

But it's still a really poorly organized sport and very different from nearly everywhere else in the world. Pay for play, college, etc.

I think there's some really good young players but I think coaching them is going to be challenging. The hardcore fans want to play like a world power but it's not that easy. The US always had a team that didn't play tactically pretty but worked really hard and was well organized. The players fit that mold and it honestly worked well for awhile, until 2018 which was the post Klinnsman "we should play like we're a top 5 country"

The 4 WC prior were QF, 2 Round of 16, and a Group Stage. For a country that never had any stars that's not bad?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

It's still a niche sport in the US. The organization at lower levels has gotten better and I think the MLS academies have helped.

But it's still a really poorly organized sport and very different from nearly everywhere else in the world. Pay for play, college, etc.

I think there's some really good young players but I think coaching them is going to be challenging. The hardcore fans want to play like a world power but it's not that easy. The US always had a team that didn't play tactically pretty but worked really hard and was well organized. The players fit that mold and it honestly worked well for awhile, until 2018 which was the post Klinnsman "we should play like we're a top 5 country"

The 4 WC prior were QF, 2 Round of 16, and a Group Stage. For a country that never had any stars that's not bad?

For a rich country that has a 350M population, the metric should not be performance at the World Cup. The NT is the 23 best players in any given country.

Countries like France, Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain (and others) could field 5 teams each that would beat the USMNT more often than not. For a country their size and with their resources, the USA are still very underwhelming soccer wise.

Considering the structures, their WC performances are indeed good.

P.S.: I know Canada is worse in terms of infrastructures and ESPECIALLY WC performance (we made it once) for a rich country. It is getting better, but we have a long way to go. Heck, our professional league is... 2 years old and the biggest cities do not even play in it.

 

[les Habs]

Better than Spain in 10 years.

 

[East Coast Bias]

For a rich country that has a 350M population, the metric should not be performance at the World Cup. The NT is the 23 best players in any given country.

Countries like France, Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain (and others) could field 5 teams each that would beat the USMNT more often than not. For a country their size and with their resources, the USA are still very underwhelming soccer wise.

Considering the structures, their WC performances are indeed good.

P.S.: I know Canada is worse in terms of infrastructures and ESPECIALLY WC performance (we made it once) for a rich country. It is getting better, but we have a long way to go. Heck, our professional league is... 2 years old and the biggest cities do not even play in it.

All of these countries you mention have hundreds of years of history within the sport. MLS is like 25 years old. For awhile the pipeline was college soccer, which is insanely poor training compared to what European kids would go through. It's just not even close to equal.

So what is your metric then, if not the WC? Placing kids in European clubs? There's only so many spots for foreigners, and there's the rest of the world to compete with.

 

[Albatros]

Better than Spain in 10 years.

In Spain you still see kids playing on the streets, they'll be fine.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I also believe that the US with their ressources and population should already be a powerhouse.

They are making progress but right now I would say they have been a huge dissapointment.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

All of these countries you mention have hundreds of years of history within the sport. MLS is like 25 years old. For awhile the pipeline was college soccer, which is insanely poor training compared to what European kids would go through. It's just not even close to equal.

So what is your metric then, if not the WC? Placing kids in European clubs? There's only so many spots for foreigners, and there's the rest of the world to compete with.

The league competition level is not a problem for Colombia, Uruguay, Mexico or even South Korea.
Actually USA should be way ahead of these nations right now considering their ressources.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

In Spain you still see kids playing on the streets, they'll be fine.

He’s kidding based off one certain poster. Hella I heard after Messi US will over take Argentina. It’s all ludicrous tbh.

 

[East Coast Bias]

The league competition level is not a problem for Colombia, Uruguay, Mexico or even South Korea.
Actually USA should be way ahead of these nations right now considering their ressources.

What resources? Population and money don't equal success. The entire model needs to be built. Its in its infancy.

The entire sporting structure is designed nothing like the rest of the soccer world. Athletes don't turn pro until they're 18 in any sport. Now that MLS teams have developed academies it's changing for soccer but its not like the rest of the world. For better or worse - it's just different.

10 years ago half the starting 11 played college soccer. Think about that. Kids in South America weren't playing amateur till 18, then going to college, then turning pro at 20/21.

Equally as silly as the takes about winning the 2026 WC are the "you suck but you have no excuse not to be a world superpower" takes

 

[Scandale du Jour]

What resources? Population and money don't equal success. The entire model needs to be built. Its in its infancy.

The entire sporting structure is designed nothing like the rest of the soccer world. Athletes don't turn pro until they're 18 in any sport. Now that MLS teams have developed academies it's changing for soccer but its not like the rest of the world. For better or worse - it's just different.

10 years ago half the starting 11 played college soccer. Think about that. Kids in South America weren't playing amateur till 18, then going to college, then turning pro at 20/21.

Equally as silly as the takes about winning the 2026 WC are the "you suck but you have no excuse not to be a world superpower" takes

That was my point. The USA are getting better, but they are still "nothing" in the soccer world. Which, considering their wealth and population, is rather surprising.

That being said, 15 years from now, it will be a very different story. They have built a much better structure. I wish Canada had done that earlier too. We are now... kinda.

We also have no excuse for sucking that bad, especially not in CONCACAF when the only other wealthy country is the USA.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yeah a few interesting players that can be good but nobody great and it's not like there's some vast number of them.

Didn't the OP suggest differently?

Also, if you start looking at minutes, goals, assists played for U23 and U20 players in the top leagues, that would directly contradict what you are saying. USA is right at the top in those categories with the best countries in the world, so there's a vast number of them as much as there is a vast number of them for other countries.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Are you speaking about Brazil or USA... at this point what really separates them?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He’s kidding based off one certain poster. Hella I heard after Messi US will over take Argentina. It’s all ludicrous tbh.

We had this discussion months back, and you came up with nothing of substance to suggest Argentina will be better.

If you look at Argentina's younger age groups, there is no one remotely close to a Messi talent. And if you compare it to the USA, USA ends up better in a lot of measures. Might mean nothing by the time Messi retires, but to dismiss it as ludicrous is putting your hands over your ears and ignoring early indicators.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

We had this discussion months back, and you came up with nothing of substance to suggest Argentina will be better.

If you look at Argentina's younger age groups, there is no one remotely close to a Messi talent. And if you compare it to the USA, USA ends up better in a lot of measures. Might mean nothing by the time Messi retires, but to dismiss it as ludicrous is putting your hands over your ears and ignoring early indicators.

Please elaborate how US has a better pipeline than Argentina? What really takes the cake is that line “Argentina doesn’t have anyone close to Messi in any age group” what a stupid comment. Sorry but no other word to describe how dumb the comment is

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You are right but I will say the 'acquisitions' of Musah and Johannsson were questionable Musah happened to be born in the US when his parents were on vacation and I doubt he visited the country since; Johannsson is a similar story (his parents were students in the US and he moved to Iceland pretty much immediately I think) and his decision I think backfired on him, although he did play in a World Cup he missed out on Iceland's 3-4 year success story...though with his injuries I doubt he would have had much playing time there either

Say what you want, but does it matter? USA has as much of a foreign reach as any country in the world. There are going to be players like Musah who are eligible for the USA because they were born here. There are going to be kids like Dest who have an American father in the military that are born and live in Europe. There are many more of that type that will play for the USA in upcoming years. If it's a steady stream of players, which it's been for a long time and will continue to be, it's very sustainable. Obviously you need to produce more players domestically to not be like Senegal/Cameroon using a full team of French players or Nigeria/Jamaica using a full team of English players, but it's trending a lot towards more domestic products. There are only a few of those types of players on the US National Team.

 

[Incubajerks]

They don't have the culture, until they have it they won't go anywhere. Of course, the single player will be able to assert himself, but we are talking about a nation that still has to acquire an identity when it comes to football.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Please elaborate how US has a better pipeline than Argentina? What really takes the cake is that line “Argentina doesn’t have anyone close to Messi in any age group” what a stupid comment. Sorry but no other word to describe how dumb the comment is

They don't have a Messi. Nothing wrong about what I said. Messi has carried Argentina's generation for like 10-15 years. More recent Argentine products haven't been that great. We went over this months ago. I believe the discussion was transfermarkt values for top U23 players, and USA was objectively higher.

Look at the amount of U23 regular players on the UCL Last 16 teams, what are supposed to be the 16 best club teams in the world. 1 from Argentina (Romero), 5 from USA (Pulisic, Reyna, McKennie, Adams, Dest). How many countries have more than 5 U23 regulars from the Last 16 of the UCL? I don't have the time to go through every country, but I'd guess USA is top 6-7 in this measure among all countries.

You can write it off as nothing, like apparently all these measures are written off, but the point remains that the indicators there for future success indicate the USA is moving their way up towards that top tier. Meanwhile, Argentina is moving their way in the other direction. Does it mean USA will be better than Argentina eventually? Maybe or maybe not, but to suggest its ludicrous is in fact ludicrous.

 

[93LEAFS]

For a rich country that has a 350M population, the metric should not be performance at the World Cup. The NT is the 23 best players in any given country.

Countries like France, Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain (and others) could field 5 teams each that would beat the USMNT more often than not. For a country their size and with their resources, the USA are still very underwhelming soccer wise.

Considering the structures, their WC performances are indeed good.

P.S.: I know Canada is worse in terms of infrastructures and ESPECIALLY WC performance (we made it once) for a rich country. It is getting better, but we have a long way to go. Heck, our professional league is... 2 years old and the biggest cities do not even play in it.

Canada's bigger cities are all in the MLS. But, again, soccer is the primary sport people play in many countries. So many kids play soccer in the USA but then get driven to the more popular sports see OBJ or Kobe for example. USA still hasn't produced a transcendent world talent who is the top star for a big-time club. Until they do that they are far behind the traditional European and South American powers. They've never produced a De Bruyne or Hazard like Belgium.

 

[PCSPounder]

And they'll still scrape by in CONCACAF.

MLS has been a rather good thing for US Soccer... and at least as helpful for the rest of CONCACAF. Now if MLS takes the shackles off its structure, and lower division teams (since there’s a building boom here at lower levels) can pay for academy talent, you might even see a bit more exponential improvement.

 

[East Coast Bias]

That was my point. The USA are getting better, but they are still "nothing" in the soccer world. Which, considering their wealth and population, is rather surprising.

That being said, 15 years from now, it will be a very different story. They have built a much better structure. I wish Canada had done that earlier too. We are now... kinda.

We also have no excuse for sucking that bad, especially not in CONCACAF when the only other wealthy country is the USA.

Even the Canadian hockey model is more like European soccer.

The US model for pro sports is just drastically different. Outside of MLS academies now, no u18 athlete is tied to a pro franchise.

how drastically different would Europe be if kids played for school tied academies and then were drafted domestically at 18. I doubt the development would be linear for every kid.

Luka Doncic came to the NBA after playing what, 3 full seasons against men at Madrid? The rest of the top 10 were kids who played 30 games in college.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

They don't have the culture, until they have it they won't go anywhere. Of course, the single player will be able to assert himself, but we are talking about a nation that still has to acquire an identity when it comes to football.

I will agree with this until they prove me wrong.

 

[Evilo]

Yes, but I also keep in mind Spain were eternal losers until they suddenly started to win (and boy did they win). In some regards, France too.
I think the US are a LOOOOONG way and obviously someone is stupidly overrating them (but then again, who's surprised).

 

[Live in the Now]

We also have two good coaches and neither of them are going to manage the national team. In Bradley's case he never will again. This would seem to be a bigger problem. We also don't have any good youth national team coaches who have these guys playing well together prior to the point they make the senior team.

It's way more likely that there are many Americans on top teams than it is likely that our national team is any good. If hoping for the latter I would really not get your hopes up because a lot of fans have a 'foreign coaches are poison' toxic mindset and make it impossible for one to do what they want to do. And in the end, also, I don't think it matters that much if our national team is any good and given a lot of the things that people say I'm not sure that I even want it to be.

 

[East Coast Bias]

As soccer becomes more popular in the US the past few years, I've noticed how severely underrated past USMNT players are becoming by American fans.

Clint Dempsey scored 17 PL goals one season for Fulham a season after playing for them in a Europa league final, but everyones going crazy now because Josh Sargent scored 4 goals for f***ing Werder Bremen

 

[Live in the Now]

As soccer becomes more popular in the US the past few years, I've noticed how severely underrated past USMNT players are becoming by American fans.

Clint Dempsey scored 17 PL goals one season for Fulham a season after playing for them in a Europa league final, but everyones going crazy now because Josh Sargent scored 4 goals for f***ing Werder Bremen

Yep. We've had some really good players besides Dempsey too, but more than a few of them had attitude problems and didn't like playing in Europe. If today's fans saw the 2002 team they would lose their f***ing mind. Should have been in the SF, outplayed Germany and just couldn't score. Frankly they outplayed every team they faced despite not having as much talent as some of them, and the team was getting absolutely ripped as a laughingstock prior to that tournament. I have my doubts these kids will create a team that good.