Why is Mike Babcock being made the scapegoat for the Maple Leaf's problems?

[The Big Unit]

They’re also just 6 points above last place in the entire league, and as you mention, the team’s below them have games in hand.

It’s not only an issue of have a bad opening quarter to the season. They’ve been mediocre for almost a full calendar year now. They already need a really good record over the last 60 games remaining (something like 38-22) to hit the points numbers usually accumulated by the wild card seeds.

Agreed. Clearly there are some roster/coaching issues but I guess I'm looking at them with a similar lens to San Jose, Tampa and Dallas. They started the season playing well below expectations and are now starting to right the ship. None of these teams is out of the woods yet but they're too good to completely collapse. My expectation is Toronto might just be the recipient of good fortune with Pittsburgh losing Crosby, and Montreal and Philadelphia reverting expectations.

While I fully expect Tampa to take a divisional spot, it should be a dogfight between Toronto, Florida, Montreal and Buffalo for the third Atlantic division spot and I like Toronto's chances there. Or, as mentioned, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh in a wildcard race.

 

[Rehabguy]

The worse thing that can happen right now is for these few rich young players to feel entitled even further. Now that they made their millions and are set for life they don't want a demanding coach to ruin their posh lifestyle so they tune him out and want to choose their own coach- one who will be easy on them so they really enjoy the good life. I think these overpaid 4 players need to step up to plate right now and earn their living. They needed to be in kicked in the behind over and over again by management and start demanding the results they promised when they signed those lucrative contracts. Their success under Babcock's system was what led to those ridiculous contracts to begin with. To turn their backs on him now would be disgusting.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

Why is he the scapegoat? Because the team is like 30th in the league for scoring chances.. with the offense we have. Our shot heat map is blue in the middle and red on the outside. It was never like this before.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Get a clue folks. What happened is once all these guys got paid they pulled out the lawn chairs and lost all motivation to work for a living. The top players are gutless wonders.

Matthews has been the teams best player, Marner isn't even playing right now, yet them signing big contracts explains the entire team underperforming?

 

[Anomie2029]

Yes… It's all the players fault. None of it is on the coach.
The players are deciding to keep Ceci on the top pairing. It's Barrie that doesn't feel like playing in his contract year. It's the players fault that Hyman, in his first game back from a long injury layoff, played more minutes than Matthews. It's the players fault that Babcock will throw out his 4th line when down and a couple of minutes left.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Hard to blame the coach when this is your top player:

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yes… It's all the players fault. None of it is on the coach.
The players are deciding to keep Ceci on the top pairing. It's Barrie that doesn't feel like playing in his contract year. It's the players fault that Hyman, in his first game back from a long injury layoff, played more minutes than Matthews. It's the players fault that Babcock will throw out his 4th line when down and a couple of minutes left.

Why does this keep being mentioned? It's not even true. Hyman played 17:37 in his debut game, Matthews played 18:45 that night. Even if you only look at 5on5, Hyman played 13:27 and Matthews played 14:28.

Babcock's even being criticized for things that are made up on the internet.

 

[stopclickbait]

Hard to blame the coach when this is your top player:

I don't get it

 

[SoupNazi]

He's realgud.

When you pay a coach as much money as you're paying Babcock, the expectation is that he'll use his roster and win. Are the Leafs problems all on him? No. Absolutely not. But I watched Babcock for long enough to know that he's stubborn enough to exacerbate problems while offering nothing in the way of solutions.

 

[Kronwalled55]

I feel like I entered a time machine to the Wings board in 2014.

The criticism on him is all accurate though.

 

[PromisedLand]

Because he's been a first round exit in 6 of the last 9 times he's been in the playoffs and forces a failing system on a team that is built on transition and speed, not dumping the puck in. The game has passed him.

not a huge fan of babcock but name a coach in the NHL that has consistently made playoffs with his team like Babcock did with the wings.

Making the playoffs is not easy
Then winning in the playoffs is even harder

I can't remember a coach in recent memory that consistently made the playoffs with his team; closest I can think of is Q; but even Quenneville eventually could not get hawks to the playoffs for his entire tenure.

LOL at people blaming solely Babcock. Does he has is warts; hell yes
Am I a babcock fan? Hell no; guy is an egomaniac; but he gets the job done

Dubas is a bigger JOKE than any GM I have ever seen; guy put 50% of the cap on 4 players; team have defensive issue not offensive and required a quality back-up goalie (did not address any of it) AND on top of that is trying to do something that has never been done in the history of NHL

On top of that guy became a GM with team on the rise and plenty of cap space; within 2 years he has completely f***ed up the cap and ruined team composition with no balance at all

f*** Dubas

I am absolutely Frustrated Leafs Fan

 

[Dueling Banjos]

Hard to blame the coach when this is your top player:

I keep on waiting for pants to come off, nothing is happening.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

I keep reading about him playing grinders or second tier guys late in games in clutch moments. Is it not a case of needing to cycle lines because guys are tired late? I have to assume he knows who his best players are but cant afford to double shift them?

 

[Rehabguy]

not a huge fan of babcock but name a coach in the NHL that has consistently made playoffs with his team like Babcock did with the wings.

Making the playoffs is not easy
Then winning in the playoffs is even harder

I can't remember a coach in recent memory that consistently made the playoffs with his team; closest I can think of is Q; but even Quenneville eventually could not get hawks to the playoffs for his entire tenure.

LOL at people blaming solely Babcock. Does he has is warts; hell yes
Am I a babcock fan? Hell no; guy is an egomaniac; but he gets the job done

Dubas is a bigger JOKE than any GM I have ever seen; guy put 50% of the cap on 4 players; team have defensive issue not offensive and required a quality back-up goalie (did not address any of it) AND on top of that is trying to do something that has never been done in the history of NHL

On top of that guy became a GM with team on the rise and plenty of cap space; within 2 years he has completely ****ed up the cap and ruined team composition with no balance at all

**** Dubas

I am absolutely Frustrated Leafs Fan

Exactly! He's not perfect but he's done good job most of his career including an outstanding job his first 2 years as a Leaf coach and now the Toronto media and the fans are on his case. The only thing that happened was that 4 players got paid big time and they are not leading the team like they should at pivotal moments in the game. It's not all about razzle dazzle. It's about sacrificing the body, blocking shots, protecting your teammates, taking charge. I see NOTHING of that from these Leafs. I watched the last few games to watch what might be going on and it was embarrassing to watch. They are not being out-skilled, they are being outworked! They are lazy and more often than not they are just spectators when they are on the ice. They have no balls. They have no heart. They don't stand up for each other nor play as a team. They look like a bunch of school boys with their little cliques at a high school dance. They don't at all look like they are playing for each other. They don't look a team that cares about the other guy sitting next to them. They look discombobulated. This is all on the players and not on Babcock. They need to get their act together. Who's the captain on that team? Why isn't he speaking up?

 

[Kamiccolo]

I keep reading about him playing grinders or second tier guys late in games in clutch moments. Is it not a case of needing to cycle lines because guys are tired late? I have to assume he knows who his best players are but cant afford to double shift them?

Here's the problem. You how many times they are down late, 2 min left, just had the big guns on the ice getting a ton of chances. He has a time out. Does he use it, rest them, and send them back out? NO! He sends out his goofy crew of gud pro's over the boards to fall on their ass for 1:30 and get off the ice, only for the big guns to come back on and look as if they had a few more seconds they would have scored..

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Matthews has been the teams best player, Marner isn't even playing right now, yet them signing big contracts explains the entire team underperforming?

Matthews has no urgency in his play, a lot of Leafs fans and media have commented on this. You think people do not notice this? He may be padding his stats, but he is not playing like a 11.634 player. He rarely takes over a game, and his defence is atrocious at times. He looks like he is going through the motions.

As for big contracts affecting the team causing them to underperform. The big contracts have given Leafs little wiggle room. Their bottom 6 players is weaker than last year. Not unless you think Kerfoot, Spezza, Moore, and Shore are better than Kadri, Brown, Marleau, and Ennis. No one would pick the former as an upgrade. They don't even have 1M to spend on a proper back up goalie.

This is how signing big contracts causes a team to underperform. It's a poorly constructed team by Dubas of underperforming players with an obvious lack of chemistry.

 

[member 300185]

He's one of the most successful coaches in North American Hockey, the coach who holds the record for most wins as the Red Wings coach, numerous Stanley Cup Finals appearances, and took the Red Wings to the playoffs every year he was coach there. Within 2 years of taking over the reigns in Toronto he brought the team to its highest points total in franchise history. The problem with the Leafs appear to be gutless, heartless, spoiled young players and an inexperienced foolish GM. Sad that he's being made the scapegoat. I think they are doing him a favor if they were to let him go.

I wish people would stop using his success in Detroit. When he got that job he inherited an amazingly talented team. A monkey could have coached that team. He got over 500 of those wins coaching a stacked Red Wings team. So how good is he really? 200 wins coaching Ducks and Leafs.

He reminds me of Bernie Nichols. Year before Gretzky he had 32 goals. Gretzky got there and he scored 70. The next year he had 39.

Coaching and playing on a stacked team affects stats. Those are the facts. How would Yzerman, Shanahan, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Chelios, Zetterberg, Franzen, Hudler, Kronwall, look in a Leafs uniform. He has 9 superstars on that team.

Ken Holland built that team from 97 on and if anyone deserves that cup win it is him and not Babcock. Like I said, A monkey could have coached that team with all those stars on it. Plus they had a great group of secondary players to back them up. They were big, talented and scary. And going into Detroit for a game was almost a guaranteed loss.

Babcock just isn't that good. Plus another thing, he inherited Scotty Bowmans system. It was a great system 15 years ago, but he game has changed and Babcock has not changed. Also there are a few players now saying the players hated him in Detroit.

So we need to learn the facts about this clown.

 

[LeapOnOver]

None of this makes sense. Laviolette is one of the most longetive coaches in the NHL along with Barry Trotz, I reckon he has only coached three different teams since 2003. Ted Nolan was never successful anywhere except for one odd season when he had a prime Hasek in goal. Regarding Bowman, I reckon Mike Babcock is a modern day Bowman in several ways. If Babcock doesn't have the authority to instill attitude in the locker room, no one will.

Well what you are saying doesn't make any sense because you are making claims about Bowman and Babcock that cannot be proven. What I meant about Laviolette is even after winning the cup he was fired a few seasons later. He has several years where a team does well under him and then performance starts to go down. You can see by his track record if you delve in deep enough. Doesn't necessarily mean he loses a room, just means his coaching style wears thin on players.

Interesting that Ted Nolan was successful because of a prime Hasek, whilst Babcock was just a great coach with a prime Datsyuk, Lidstrom and Zetterberg.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Same story. For the last 20 years it has been the coach.

Babcock
Wilson
Maurice
Carlyle
Quinn

Any team would kill for this list of all star coaching. Everyone was run out of town as a bum. Quinn included at the last few years of his tenure.

It’s a shame.

 

[biotk]

I keep reading about him playing grinders or second tier guys late in games in clutch moments. Is it not a case of needing to cycle lines because guys are tired late? I have to assume he knows who his best players are but cant afford to double shift them?

Here's the problem. You how many times they are down late, 2 min left, just had the big guns on the ice getting a ton of chances. He has a time out. Does he use it, rest them, and send them back out? NO! He sends out his goofy crew of gud pro's over the boards to fall on their ass for 1:30 and get off the ice, only for the big guns to come back on and look as if they had a few more seconds they would have scored..

You mean like the 4-3 Leafs loss to Washington when Matthews was on the bench from 2:56 left in the game until there were 16 seconds left in the game? 2:40 on the bench as time wound down (and if you think that must have been because he was exhausted from double shifting over the previous minutes - he had played 3:59 of the previous 10 minutes - so 4:15 seconds over the last 13 minutes of a game the Leafs lost by one).

But at least he was playing the other big guns instead, right? Marner didn't step on the ice during the last 2 minutes and played 6:04 during the whole period. Tavares did essentially play the final 3 minutes, but bizarrely didn't even play 7 minutes for the whole period...which means in the first 17 minutes of the period he played 4 minutes (barely 2 minutes in the first 13 minutes of the period) - in a game the Leafs lost by 1. But maybe they were short-handed throughout the period - nope - each team had one PP.


​

 

[boredmale]

Mike Commodore?

 

[LeapOnOver]

Not saying Babcock is blameless and won't be surprised if he is fired if they can't right the ship. Never really been a fan of his 'Interference' style of hockey but there's a lot of shoulders around that should be carrying some of their struggles.

Coaches are important towards attitude but they can't do it all on their own. Think of past bosses you've had and then compare that to past co-workers you respected. More often than not it'll be the co-worker that challenges or inspires you to do your best because when you see how hard they work and some of the insights they give then it compels you to try a little harder.

When you have young super-skilled players that make immediate impacts - it can go south, sometimes, without strong veteran presences that command respect. Although Toronto's kids are talented, like The Oilers kids were, their games definitely have flaws and I don't see anyone on the roster that can hold them accountable. Especially, that all Leaf Nation has talked about for the past few years are these kids so of course they're going to feel above it all, as that's all they've heard since they put on the sweater.

They'll eventually figure it out but IMO it simply takes longer without pro role-models. Dubas did a bit too much of an EASports roster and it put Babcock in a tough position.

Sure, not going to disagree with a lot of it and either one of us would be stupid to think it was all of one thing and nothing of another. Failure is usually just a complex recipe as success. I just feel like Dubas gave him a roster, why yes not necessarily constructed with balance and strategy in mind, it's talented regardless. Any coach worth a salt knows they have to adapt their systems and strategies to mesh with the personnel given. As an Islander's fan I actually love to see the Leafs struggle. I won't keep that a secret, however, I feel like a lot of the onus falls on management here and not the players. Every time we play them I feel like the effort is there for the Leafs, but they play a selfish game devoid of teamwork. Players have to know they need that to be successful and I feel like they are desperately wishing for the coach to make it happen and he hasn't.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

You mean like the 4-3 Leafs loss to Washington when Matthews was on the bench from 2:56 left in the game until there were 16 seconds left in the game? 2:40 on the bench as time wound down (and if you think that must have been because he was exhausted from double shifting over the previous minutes - he had played 3:59 of the previous 10 minutes - so 4:15 seconds over the last 13 minutes of a game the Leafs lost by one).

But at least he was playing the other big guns instead, right? Marner didn't step on the ice during the last 2 minutes and played 6:04 during the whole period. Tavares did essentially play the final 3 minutes, but bizarrely didn't even play 7 minutes for the whole period...which means in the first 17 minutes of the period he played 4 minutes (barely 2 minutes in the first 13 minutes of the period) - in a game the Leafs lost by 1. But maybe they were short-handed throughout the period - nope - each team had one PP.


​

Matthews and Marner have the 13th and 14th most TOI among forwards in the NHL. Babcock plays his stallions as much as seems reasonable to do. You flagged a game where usage was off at the margins.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Matthews and Marner have the 13th and 14th most TOI among forwards in the NHL. Babcock plays his stallions as much as seems reasonable to do. You flagged a game where usage was off at the margins.

No, they don't.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

No, they don't.

Right, Eastern Conference. Still pretty good