Why is Mike Babcock being made the scapegoat for the Maple Leaf's problems?

[bennysflyers16]

Do not underestimate the stink of that Beet Farming imbecile they hired as an assistant coach.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

There is zero chance that the Leafs' could have got Matthews for 10 (Eichel got 10 two years prior and Matthews had a ridiculously better ELC than Eichel) and probably no chance they could have got Marner for 9 either.

The Leafs' had no leverage with Matthews (who hates Babcock and who would have signed an OS - Bettman's wet dream would be Matthews going to Arizona as the first home grown star from the state and the team had been acquired by a new billionaire owner months before Matthews would have become an RFA) and not a ton of leverage with Marner (who had some long-standing grievances - some very legit, and some not so - against the Leafs' management and coach - Marner was refused the schedule B bonuses that every player drafted in his position gets, and Marner, like Nylander, was often bumped down the lineup - including to the fourth line whenever he did anything that displeased Babcock, while veteran players could play terrible for weeks at a time without facing any consequences).

The Leafs' overpayments and contract problems are actually a good cautionary tale of what happens when you draft high end talent and then are pricks to that high end talent during their ELCs. This was something I talked about frequently over the last two summers and was a major reason why I believe the Leafs moved from Lou to Dubas when they did - in the hope that it would reduce the animosity from the camps of all three young players towards Lou and the Leafs' organization. I think that if the Leafs' had fired Babcock would have been able to get Matthews for a better deal than they did (there was still more than 4 years on Babcock's contract when Matthews signed - if you think Matthews was going to give the Leafs' a discount to play the rest of the best years of his career for a coach he hates I think you live in a fantasy land - although at the time much of the fanbase was still denying that the obvious animosity even existed), but Marner's camp was out for blood - and they made clear that the Leafs' were going to pay for his past mistreatment including compensation for those denied schedule B bonuses.

First off, Matthews signed for 5 years, and Eichel signed for 8. Comparing their AAVs side by side isn’t a fair apples to apples comparison whatsoever. I also think you’re overstating the gaps in their ELC performance, but that’s a different topic for a different day...

Most importantly, those are some very hefty claims you’re making with absolute confidence. Do you have a source for any of them?

 

[hcg]

The issues...

1. Shanahan for replacing Lou with Harry Potter
2. Harry Potter
3. A bunch of $11 million dollar immature arrogant players
4. A $6 million arrogant head coach
5. 30 NHL team players and coaches wanting to crush 1, 2, 3, and 4 above

It's that simple.

The leafs face playoff hockey night in night out.

Why would number 5 be true, at all?

 

[biotk]

Most importantly, those are some very hefty claims you’re making with absolute confidence. Do you have a source for any of them?

Do I have a source for any of them? Billionaire Alex Meruelo agreed to become majority owner of the Coyotes less than 2 1/2 months before Matthews signed his deal and in time for the acquisition to be approved by the NHL board of governors 12 days before Matthews would have become an RFA. The Coyotes are now spending to the cap max on playing players (with a big chunk of that spending being acquired after July 1), not spending to the minimum by picking up LTIRs and retired player cap hits. They are also top-8 in the NHL right now after missing the playoffs for 7 years in a row or something.

If you need a link to support the idea that Bettman's dream would be for the state's first home grown star to play for Coyotes I can't help you because that is about as basic as it gets and would justify all of the moves Bettman made to get and keep the team there in the first place and well as his efforts to ensure that the team had stable and wealthy ownership after Barroway had run into financial problems in 2015.

As for Matthews hating Babcock and would have willingly signed a OS....again, are we being serious? Everyone knows that Matthews hates Babcock. Everyone knows how much Matthews likes money. Everyone knows that Matthews has no ties to Toronto and loves Arizona. Everyone knows that Toronto management had worries about an OS for Matthews.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Sounds like your pretty close to Matthews and Bettman to know all these unpublished insights....

 

[Phil120362]

Dubas should be taking all the blame. The guy was gifted a strong core and still managed to butcher their roster. Their team is way too individualistic and they have no backbone.

They needed a stabilizing presence on the backend and who'd they end up getting? Tyson Barrie..

If your forward core is soft the least you can do is have a strong/physical d-core, its common sense.

This is absolutely disgusting. I hope the Mayor makes a “Babcock Day” in Toronto now.

It's like one flew over the cuckoo's nest...and Babs is nurse ratched

 

[sxvnert]

Because the exact same problems with this team today have been here since he took over.

 

[SI90]

It's like one flew over the cuckoo's nest...and Babs is nurse ratched

Juicy Fruit.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Do I have a source for any of them? Billionaire Alex Meruelo agreed to become majority owner of the Coyotes less than 2 1/2 months before Matthews signed his deal and in time for the acquisition to be approved by the NHL board of governors 12 days before Matthews would have become an RFA. The Coyotes are now spending to the cap max on playing players (with a big chunk of that spending being acquired after July 1), not spending to the minimum by picking up LTIRs and retired player cap hits. They are also top-8 in the NHL right now after missing the playoffs for 7 years in a row or something.

If you need a link to support the idea that Bettman's dream would be for the state's first home grown star to play for Coyotes I can't help you because that is about as basic as it gets and would justify all of the moves Bettman made to get and keep the team there in the first place and well as his efforts to ensure that the team had stable and wealthy ownership after Barroway had run into financial problems in 2015.

As for Matthews hating Babcock and would have willingly signed a OS....again, are we being serious? Everyone knows that Matthews hates Babcock. Everyone knows how much Matthews likes money. Everyone knows that Matthews has no ties to Toronto and loves Arizona. Everyone knows that Toronto management had worries about an OS for Matthews.

Yeah, so, you are making some gargantuan claims here. You are going to need to substantiate these with a lot more than just “everyone knows”. That’s not going to cut it.

You’re also displaying a pretty ignorant view of Bettman and the Coyotes here. For one, the Coyotes aren’t actually spending to the cap on active player salaries right now. Their estimated salary expenditure per CapFriendly is $71.3M. That is dead last in the NHL, behind even Ottawa at $72.6M. Arizona’s financial situation may be shifting, but they’re not where you seem to think they are. Two, you don’t know what Bettman’s dream is at all and that’s frankly another claim that you actually need to cite with some sort of evidence. Arizona succeeding and becoming a profitable market along with Matthews succeeding as an Arizona product (in the NHL’s biggest market no less) are plenty of justification for Bettman’s efforts in Arizona and Matthews playing in Arizona would merely be a cherry on top.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

Juicy Fruit.

 

[Tripod]

Babs didn't cause the Barrie turnover that led to a goal.

Babs didn't make Nylander have a weak deflection with an empty net losing a goal for.

Babs didn't cause Fleury's crazy save.

Wonder who wanted Hakstol hired? 13 GA while on the PK in the last 11 games.

 

[Kennedys]

Marty Mcfly told me the leafs overpaid for Lafreniere.

 

[the_fan]

YOU WANNA FIRE ME????
YOU CAN'T FIRE ME!!!!

 

[Whileee]

It’s interesting seeing the generational divide when it comes to Babcock and Dubas. Critics. Overall it seems as though most Dubas detractors are over the age of 40 and view his lack of experience and his soft handed player first mentality as an issue. They also view his strategy of signing skill over old fashioned grit as the root of our problems.

Meanwhile a lot of Babcock’s detractors see him as a dinosaur with outdated coaching methodologies that don’t gel with the players Dubas has signed.

Both sides have some valid points but honestly I’d rather see Babcock go and see Dubas actually make his mark on the team with his own coaching staff that share his viewpoint before dismissing the team he’s built.

The team has a deformed cap distribution. That's a structural problem, not so much philosophical.

 

[Rehabguy]

YOU WANNA FIRE ME????
YOU CAN'T FIRE ME!!!!
View attachment 279981

Not too far from the truth apparently.

 

[xECK29x]

YOU WANNA FIRE ME????
YOU CAN'T FIRE ME!!!!
View attachment 279981

NOBODY MAKES MIKE BABCOCK BLEED HIS OWN BLOOD!!!

 

[Theodore450]

It’s interesting seeing the generational divide when it comes to Babcock and Dubas. Critics. Overall it seems as though most Dubas detractors are over the age of 40 and view his lack of experience and his soft handed player first mentality as an issue. They also view his strategy of signing skill over old fashioned grit as the root of our problems.

Meanwhile a lot of Babcock’s detractors see him as a dinosaur with outdated coaching methodologies that don’t gel with the players Dubas has signed.

Both sides have some valid points but honestly I’d rather see Babcock go and see Dubas actually make his mark on the team with his own coaching staff that share his viewpoint before dismissing the team he’s built.

This is such a fallacy. How would you know Dubas haters are over 40?
I’m 23 and it’s pretty clear Dubas is to blame. He’s legit a terrible gm

 

[Siludin]

He's one of the most successful coaches in North American Hockey, the coach who holds the record for most wins as the Red Wings coach, numerous Stanley Cup Finals appearances, and took the Red Wings to the playoffs every year he was coach there. Within 2 years of taking over the reigns in Toronto he brought the team to its highest points total in franchise history. The problem with the Leafs appear to be gutless, heartless, spoiled young players and an inexperienced foolish GM. Sad that he's being made the scapegoat. I think they are doing him a favor if they were to let him go.

Wait this is tripping me out

 

[dukeofjive]

Babcock and Dubas seem to be opposite on how to build the team, which is a terrible way to build a winning culture, fire babcock, and now what?

Are the leafs going to learn how to be good on D, will they stop turning the puck over in there own zone?

 

[bronco73]

Mike Babcock.
* Coaches Red Deer College from bad to winning the provincial collegiate championship and earning coach-of-the-year honours
* Takes Lethbridge Pronghorns from dead last in the entire country to making the playoffs for their first time ever and winning the naional championship ONE YEAR, also wins coach of the year honors
* Takes over the spokane chiefs and in three years wins coach of the year twice
* Takes the Cincinati chiefs to their highest ever finish in regular season and playoffs twice
* Takes over the Anaheim Mighty Ducks, and in 1 year takes them all the way to the stanley cup finals
* Takes over the Red Wings... yea we all know how things went there.

But ya, he's a sh!t coach who can't figure out how to win hockey games. Leaf fans are funny, they really need to give their heads a shake.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Mike Babcock.
* Coaches Red Deer College from bad to winning the provincial collegiate championship and earning coach-of-the-year honours
* Takes Lethbridge Pronghorns from dead last in the entire country to making the playoffs for their first time ever and winning the naional championship ONE YEAR, also wins coach of the year honors
* Takes over the spokane chiefs and in three years wins coach of the year twice
* Takes the Cincinati chiefs to their highest ever finish in regular season and playoffs twice
* Takes over the Anaheim Mighty Ducks, and in 1 year takes them all the way to the stanley cup finals
* Takes over the Red Wings... yea we all know how things went there.

But ya, he's a sh!t coach who can't figure out how to win hockey games. Leaf fans are funny, they really need to give their heads a shake.

Why did you stop at the part where he took over the Red Wings? Go ahead and brag about how many first round exits he's had since then.

 

[Fogelhund]

Babs didn't cause the Barrie turnover that led to a goal.

Babs didn't make Nylander have a weak deflection with an empty net losing a goal for.

Babs didn't cause Fleury's crazy save.

Wonder who wanted Hakstol hired? 13 GA while on the PK in the last 11 games.

and yet, it's rinse and repeat.

Turnovers on zone exits, Poor PK, Poor PP... it's been that way since about January. The exact same.

Over that time, there are four of six new D men.
There are two new Assistants...

and the Coach is the same.

When it's one game, the players made the mistakes, it's the players.. when it's the same mistakes, over, and over again, despite changing the other variables, then eventually it falls in the coaches lap.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

When it's one game, the players made the mistakes, it's the players.. when it's the same mistakes, over, and over again, despite changing the other variables, then eventually it falls in the coaches lap.

I argued the same thing last year about Sullivan because the Pens looked like chickens with their heads cut off and had no clue where to stand in the defensive zone. Looks like I was wrong about jumping to conclusions about it being a coaching issue.

 

[Fogelhund]

I argued the same thing last year about Sullivan because the Pens looked like chickens with their heads cut off and had no clue where to stand in the defensive zone. Looks like I was wrong about jumping to conclusions about it being a coaching issue.

and that's the risk... but these issues are far from the problems with Babcock at the current time. His usage of players is odd at best, and even the offensive players look completely out of sync. It's like they've quit on him.

But, if there are problems, you've got to start making changes, one piece at a time. Like I said, we swapped out most of the D, and have the same issues... this time it's the coaches turn, even if it proves not to be an issue with him.

 

[bukwas]

Until the Leafs effort comes close to matching their skill level it doesn't matter who the coach is.
I'm actually okay with them missing the playoffs this season with the hope the embarrassment will result in an attitude adjustment.