Why is it taking so long to extend Chabot?

[GrantLemons]

I don't see any reason for him to sign this offseason. He will have so much leverage if he waits until next summer. Teams will be flinging offer sheets at him left, right, and centre and if he puts up good numbers he'll command that much more $$.

I'd be really surprised to see him sign this summer.

 

[The Lewler]

You cant force someone to sign long term.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

While I don’t see it as a big deal he hasn’t signed yet, I am skeptical we see Chabot as a Senator long term based on past organizational decisions.

 

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

Yeah I know. But I do enjoy the experience of going, if anything else to watch other good teams play.

Gotta find a new scapegaoat to yell at now since Ceci is gone. He was taunted and booed until my throat was sore! Guess I can still scream at Anderson to stay in his net.

Those god damn wraparounds...just stay in the net Andy!

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Why is it taking so long to sign White. He should be easy compared to Chabot

 

[Sens]

Why is it taking so long to sign White. He should be easy compared to Chabot

Everyday I wake up expecting the hit pieces on White to begin

 

[Korpse]

Rebuilding and trading away upcoming UFAs, or an inability to retain top-level talent?

Probably a little bit of both. Fact remains we haven't someone in Chabot's situation leave the organization so to suggest it is the only probable scenario is incorrect.

 

[stempniaksen]

Probably a little bit of both. Fact remains we haven't someone in Chabot's situation leave the organization so to suggest it is the only probable scenario is incorrect.

The team also hasn't signed a single player to a long-term big money commitment since Bobby Ryan (?) And have dealt young (to varying degrees) players who could have been considered part of the core when it was time to pay them. It's not completely unprecedented.

Chabot is on another tier, but that's also what makes this scary from an OS/overall money perspective.

 

[Micklebot]

Probably a little bit of both. Fact remains we haven't someone in Chabot's situation leave the organization so to suggest it is the only probable scenario is incorrect.

I think the only time in recent history we've had a player in Chabot's situation (coming of ELC and in line for a massive contract) was Karlsson. A lot has changed since 2012

 

[dumbdick]

I'm on the record saying I'd trade him now for the right return of futures, since we're a tire fire for the immediate future anyways.

 

[Artanis]

It's funny that people keep bringing up FYOUS, but he does state that he will spend the money "if the time is right". So he could technically just not spend and say the time wasn't right.
Can't wait for Melnyk to be gone, I want to watch my Sens again.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Probably a little bit of both. Fact remains we haven't someone in Chabot's situation leave the organization so to suggest it is the only probable scenario is incorrect.

You can't predict things properly if you're using teams that aren't run like the Senators to form the basis of your prediction.

No other team in the cap era has been run like us or has had money (not cap, pure money) inform their decisions to such a ludicrous point. Not even other notorious budget teams like ARZ or CAR.

You can't take (at least) 28 other teams who behave completely differently than us and use them to form the basis of your prediction for how we will act.

Hypothetical scenario, you have to bet a significant amount of money on Chabot being a Senator after his ELC. No cop outs. You obviously take the bet that he won't, right?

I'll be as happy as anybody if we re-sign him at this point, but I'm fairly certain that unless Melnyk can match that Aho contract or unless Chabot is silly enough to want to stay in an org with as little commitment to winning as ours, he's gone.

 

[supsens]

You can't predict things properly if you're using teams that aren't run like the Senators to form the basis of your prediction.

No other team in the cap era has been run like us or has had money (not cap, pure money) inform their decisions to such a ludicrous point. Not even other notorious budget teams like ARZ or CAR.

You can't take (at least) 28 other teams who behave completely differently than us and use them to form the basis of your prediction for how we will act.

Hypothetical scenario, you have to bet a significant amount of money on Chabot being a Senator after his ELC. No cop outs. You obviously take the bet that he won't, right?

I'll be as happy as anybody if we re-sign him at this point, but I'm fairly certain that unless Melnyk can match that Aho contract or unless Chabot is silly enough to want to stay in an org with as little commitment to winning as ours, he's gone.

Umm Carolina and Arizona have been ran like the Sens for years. Arizona has finaly decided to spend, I wonder how long it lasts? My guess is not very if they keep missing the playoffs. Its more than likely a short tearm push in order to land a free arena.
But yes it's super hurting in ottawa with no end in sight

 

[Alex1234]

You can't predict things properly if you're using teams that aren't run like the Senators to form the basis of your prediction.

No other team in the cap era has been run like us or has had money (not cap, pure money) inform their decisions to such a ludicrous point. Not even other notorious budget teams like ARZ or CAR.

You can't take (at least) 28 other teams who behave completely differently than us and use them to form the basis of your prediction for how we will act.

Hypothetical scenario, you have to bet a significant amount of money on Chabot being a Senator after his ELC. No cop outs. You obviously take the bet that he won't, right?

I'll be as happy as anybody if we re-sign him at this point, but I'm fairly certain that unless Melnyk can match that Aho contract or unless Chabot is silly enough to want to stay in an org with as little commitment to winning as ours, he's gone.

THIS

 

[Korpse]

You can't predict things properly if you're using teams that aren't run like the Senators to form the basis of your prediction.

No other team in the cap era has been run like us or has had money (not cap, pure money) inform their decisions to such a ludicrous point. Not even other notorious budget teams like ARZ or CAR.

You can't take (at least) 28 other teams who behave completely differently than us and use them to form the basis of your prediction for how we will act.

Hypothetical scenario, you have to bet a significant amount of money on Chabot being a Senator after his ELC. No cop outs. You obviously take the bet that he won't, right?

I'll be as happy as anybody if we re-sign him at this point, but I'm fairly certain that unless Melnyk can match that Aho contract or unless Chabot is silly enough to want to stay in an org with as little commitment to winning as ours, he's gone.

I personally think it's more likely he stays. I don't deny that one way or another it's a possibility that he could be elsewhere after next season. I dont think it's all that likely but I can't deny that it's a possibility. We really don't know how far Melnyk is willing to go finically or what Chabot's motivations are but it's something that's worthy of a discussion.

I get it, everyone's sad that Karlsson, Stone and others are gone and things are pretty bleak at the moment but it doesn't mean the worst case scenario is always going to play out. It's really time to move on. It doesn't mean that young player's don't want to play here and are going to take the first train out of town. Just as it was with college players like Daccord, Wolanin, Norris and even White, things aren't as bad as some want them to be.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Umm Carolina and Arizona have been ran like the Sens for years. Arizona has finaly decided to spend, I wonder how long it lasts? My guess is not very if they keep missing the playoffs. Its more than likely a short tearm push in order to land a free arena.
But yes it's super hurting in ottawa with no end in sight

CAR and ARZ are budget teams, but I can't recall them ever reaching the low we have reached. Both have had zero issues retaining stars on the basis of cash even prior to this season. They've been budget teams, but they cut the budgets from the bottom of their rosters.

I'm not talking about the Sens pre-2017. While things were always dicey with us having to constantly shuffle the deck due to salary, we were a typical budget team. The last two or so years have been absolutely unprecedented. To my recollection we haven't seen any NHL team operate like that in the cap era.

The general point is, it is faulty for the other poster to make his prediction of what the Senators are likely to do on the basis of information that is completely irrelevant to the Senators. (That information being how teams who are run nothing like we are don't lose players as young as Chabot) In the last two years, the way we've operated is unprecedented.

 

[Korpse]

Umm Carolina and Arizona have been ran like the Sens for years. Arizona has finaly decided to spend, I wonder how long it lasts? My guess is not very if they keep missing the playoffs. Its more than likely a short tearm push in order to land a free arena.
But yes it's super hurting in ottawa with no end in sight

At this point, it's pointless to argue that the current Ottawa Senator's arent the worst of all time. First team to ever sell of talent in a rebuild.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Remove some of the clutter to make even more clutter? If you are going to clean this way, then you will have even more problems.

...you think signing Chabot is "clutter"?

I'm starting to think you don't know anything about this team, this fanbase, or what has been going on here for the past five years. Signing Chabot is something both the team and fans need to see.

Now, I'm not suggesting this is going to happen overnight. We're still in July. But if he isn't signed by training camp this fall....I'm definitely going to worry. I don't see the Sens having the ability to sign anyone late next summer...especially if it looks like a lockout is possible. The details of the contract will need to be known - likely by this fall - in order to have the money in place for the signing bonus in 2020.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I personally think it's more likely he stays. I don't deny that one way or another it's a possibility that he could be elsewhere after next season. I dont think it's all that likely but I can't deny that it's a possibility. We really don't know how far Melnyk is willing to go finically or what Chabot's motivations are but it's something that's worthy of a discussion.

I get it, everyone's sad that Karlsson, Stone and others are gone and things are pretty bleak at the moment but it doesn't mean the worst case scenario is always going to play out. It's really time to move on. It doesn't mean that young player's don't want to play here and are going to take the first train out of town. Just as it was with college players like Daccord, Wolanin, Norris and even White, things aren't as bad as some want them to be.

I'm not trying to say that he's gone and that's the end of discussion and anybody who thinks otherwise has a bad opinion. (edit: removed exclamation mark, came off like I was yelling!!! sorry)

I'm just pointing out that if you are informing your idea that players Chabot's age always get re-signed on the basis of how every other NHL team has operated, you're using flawed information because we have shown over the last two years that we aren't being run that way. The decisions we're making are unprecedented.

There is a big difference between Chabot and Norris or Wolanin. The difference is those players are starting their ELCs and benefit immensely from being on a rebuilding team where there is more opportunity for them to produce while on their ELC. Chabot's ELC is up.

Even if Chabot kind of likes it here, his representation has to have a reasonable idea that he's going to get the Aho offer sheet if he hits July 1st, because another team will think that Melnyk won't match. So all of a sudden, Chabot is in a position where he can get a contract that would be more lucrative than what his actual historical market value is. That market value would be 10-11 percent of the cap at 7-8 years. All of a sudden, his agent probably understands that by being willing to leave the Senators, Chabot can get 10-11 percent of the cap and only have to give up 5 years, which then sets him up to cash in on another 7-8 year contract while he is still young. Amazing situation for him money wise.

You bring up Karl and others leaving, but this isn't an emotional argument. People are just looking at what has happened and drawing conclusions, maybe some good ones, maybe some bad ones.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Umm Carolina and Arizona have been ran like the Sens for years. Arizona has finaly decided to spend, I wonder how long it lasts? My guess is not very if they keep missing the playoffs. Its more than likely a short tearm push in order to land a free arena.
But yes it's super hurting in ottawa with no end in sight

Arizona locked up OEL and Carolina matched Aho's offersheet. Carolina's owner even threw away 200M on a football league that has since folded. Not the same at all.

 

[Korpse]

I'm not trying to say that he's gone and that's the end of discussion and anybody who thinks otherwise has a bad opinion. (edit: removed exclamation mark, came off like I was yelling!!! sorry)

I'm just pointing out that if you are informing your idea that players Chabot's age always get re-signed on the basis of how every other NHL team has operated, you're using flawed information because we have shown over the last two years that we aren't being run that way. The decisions we're making are unprecedented.

There is a big difference between Chabot and Norris or Wolanin. The difference is those players are starting their ELCs and benefit immensely from being on a rebuilding team where there is more opportunity for them to produce while on their ELC. Chabot's ELC is up.

Even if Chabot kind of likes it here, his representation has to have a reasonable idea that he's going to get the Aho offer sheet if he hits July 1st, because another team will think that Melnyk won't match. So all of a sudden, Chabot is in a position where he can get a contract that would be more lucrative than what his actual historical market value is. That market value would be 10-11 percent of the cap at 7-8 years. All of a sudden, his agent probably understands that by being willing to leave the Senators, Chabot can get 10-11 percent of the cap and only have to give up 5 years, which then sets him up to cash in on another 7-8 year contract while he is still young. Amazing situation for him money wise.

You bring up Karl and others leaving, but this isn't an emotional argument. People are just looking at what has happened and drawing conclusions, maybe some good ones, maybe some bad ones.

You maybe not. Others have. Which is why I entered the discussion. A poster actually used the word inevitable, that's why I mentioned how rare offersheets are and how it's even more rare that they go unmatched. At no point in time did I use it to suggest that it's evidence Chabot would stay in Ottawa. I never even tried to argue that Chabot would be staying, only that it was a possibility.

I understand that how Chabot's situation is different and only used past college players to mention how no matter the topic there are some that will only see the worst. I'm sure you have noticed that it's a trend that every college player will want to play out there college career and become a FA. I think for some it is emotional.

 

[supsens]

Arizona locked up OEL and Carolina matched Aho's offersheet. Carolina's owner even threw away 200M on a football league that has since folded. Not the same at all.

He didn’t throw it away for fun and he is trying to get the courts to refund him on some loses, he also is being accused of being a deadbeat that hasn’t paid his vendors, fun fact his net worth was estimated less than EM’s before that massive loss and we locked up everyone we ever had the first time around also. The six million on OEL isn’t more than the sens have ever done.

 

[branch]

He didn’t throw it away for fun and he is trying to get the courts to refund him on some loses, he also is being accused of being a deadbeat that hasn’t paid his vendors, fun fact his net worth was estimated less than EM’s before that massive loss and we locked up everyone we ever had the first time around also. The six million on OEL isn’t more than the sens have ever done.

And when was that?? To the last part of your comment.

 

[stempniaksen]

He didn’t throw it away for fun and he is trying to get the courts to refund him on some loses, he also is being accused of being a deadbeat that hasn’t paid his vendors, fun fact his net worth was estimated less than EM’s before that massive loss and we locked up everyone we ever had the first time around also. The six million on OEL isn’t more than the sens have ever done.

You mean $66 million? Because yes it is.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Yeah! Why is it taking so long to extend Chabot! We should just agree to the first offer his agent asks for and then bitch about him getting paid way too much!