Why is hockey the only sport not to produce a GOAT-calibre player in the last decade or so?

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Do some research on juiced baseballs. How many homeruns were hit this year at the homerun derby?

You do understand that the players have no option in what baseball the MLB decides to use. Right? Players cheating and using PED’s do have the option.

Also, what does a baseball being soft tossed to players have anything to do with the actual game of baseball? Are these guys accumulating stats at the Home Run Derby?

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Mike Trout had used steroids since he was in high school. There's no reason why a baseball player would naturally have a neck that thick.

And more importantly, it doesn't matter. He's still an inferior player to Bonds.

Yes. Since you know 100% that Trout has used them.

I’m not arguing that Trout is better than Bonds now. Comparatively at the same age, Trout is better than a Bonds was.

The argument is that if Trout keeps it up for another 10 years, at his current pace, he will surpass Bonds fairly easily.

 

[XX]

The definition of what is a realistic GOAT in hockey is trending downward due to better defense and goaltending, whereas in football, basketball, and baseball things are trending upward performance wise. It's getting harder to play hockey but 'easier' to play everything else.

McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin etc... would all have a credible case if you just ignored everything prior to the salary cap.

 

[Red Piller]

You do understand that the players have no option in what baseball the MLB decides to use. Right? Players cheating and using PED’s do have the option.

Also, what does a baseball being soft tossed to players have anything to do with the actual game of baseball? Are these guys accumulating stats at the Home Run Derby?

I am asking because I’ve never seen one guy let alone 2 hit 35 homeruns each in a single round. Vlad hit like 80 homeruns in one matchup. If that doesn’t say juiced baseball I don’t know what to tell you.

Yes I do understand that. If you’re going to talk about Barry Bonds PED use and how those accumulated stats are from juicing then we must also acknowledge Trouts stats are because of juiced balls. There are 1000 more homeruns hit per year compared to the PED era. Mike Trout is a direct beneficiary of MLB making it easier to accumulate stats. Period.

 

[Neutrinos]

I'd argue that McDavid today, is a better hockey player than Gretzky ever was

 

[Red Piller]

Yes. Since you know 100% that Trout has used them.

I’m not arguing that Trout is better than Bonds now. Comparatively at the same age, Trout is better than a Bonds was.

The argument is that if Trout keeps it up for another 10 years, at his current pace, he will surpass Bonds fairly easily.

Lol no, he will not sorry

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

I am asking because I’ve never seen one guy let alone 2 hit 35 homeruns each in a single round. Vlad hit like 80 homeruns in one matchup. If that doesn’t say juiced baseball I don’t know what to tell you.

Yes I do understand that. If you’re going to talk about Barry Bonds PED use and how those accumulated stats are from juicing then we must also acknowledge Trouts stats are because of juiced balls. There are 1000 more homeruns hit per year compared to the PED era. Mike Trout is a direct beneficiary of MLB making it easier to accumulate stats. Period.

And Bonds cheated to get a large majority of his.

Mike Trout can only hit the baseballs that the MLB decided upon using.

 

[Kranix]

Is there even a GOAT baseball player? Seems like there's too many little stats and every year there's fifty new guys people rave about. Or do people still say it's like Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth?

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Lol no, he will not sorry

He’s on pace to beat a large majority of Bonds records. Not sure how you can say if he keeps it up he wouldn’t be better than Bonds.

But you are obviously a Bonds fanboy that doesn’t know what you are talking about.

 

[Red Piller]

And Bonds cheated to get a large majority of his.

Mike Trout can only hit the baseballs that the MLB decided upon using.

So they are exactly the same then. Under the same set of circumstances, in this case a guy juicing vs a guy hitting juiced baseballs, all things being equal here, Barry Bonds is the greatest who ever lived. If he was allowed to hit the baseballs of today without PEDs you’d see the same numbers. Maybe more since everyone is throwing 100 now. 85 homerun seasons wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility

 

[I am Canadian]

Quality of NHL has improved - it's a lot harder to top out IMO. Players used to smoke packs of cigarettes often, now health + fitness is taken more serious.

 

[Voight]

Mike Trout had used steroids since he was in high school. There's no reason why a baseball player would naturally have a neck that thick.

And more importantly, it doesn't matter. He's still an inferior player to Bonds.

Also WRT to Trout/Bonds..... one could argue that if Trout ends up with neck and neck with him, his all around play may entice people to rank him ahead. Bonds is clearly ahead offensively but based on this year, Trout may be starting to get even better in that area.

 

[Red Piller]

He’s on pace to beat a large majority of Bonds records. Not sure how you can say if he keeps it up he wouldn’t be better than Bonds.

But you are obviously a Bonds fanboy that doesn’t know what you are talking about.

He needs to hit 50 homeruns the next 10 years straight, and have 12 years of 100 rbis. While also stealing 30 bags a year each year for the next 10. Winning MVP 5 out of those 10, winning a gold glove 8 out of those 10, putting up 10 WAR a year the yeah sure maybe

 

[Dirty Dog]

Agree. Over the last 15 years no team has been more dominant on defense than his team, and he has nothing to do with that.

What????

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

So they are exactly the same then. Under the same set of circumstances, in this case a guy juicing vs a guy hitting juiced baseballs, all things being equal here, Barry Bonds is the greatest who ever lived. If he was allowed to hit the baseballs of today without PEDs you’d see the same numbers. Maybe more since everyone is throwing 100 now. 85 homerun seasons wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility

I would hope you understood how stupid the comment you just made sounds and is. But you actually typed it out so I’m assuming you truly believe and meant what you wrote.

 

[Red Piller]

Also WRT to Trout/Bonds..... one could argue that if Trout ends up with neck and neck with him, his all around play may entice people to rank him ahead. Bonds is clearly ahead offensively but based on this year, Trout may be starting to get even better in that area.

What all around play should we discuss? Trout has never won a gold glove. Bonds has 8 in his career. I’ve never seen Trout get intentionally walked with the bases loaded before either.

 

[Voight]

A 33 year old Ronaldo. For 9 years at Madrid the Guy scored at over a goal/game rate. Maradona might be more talented, but still no contest. Numbers speak for themselfs and yes obviously Messi is, since hes the best ever.

And for 9 years his boss bought half of the elite players that were available.

 

[Red Piller]

I would hope you understood how stupid the comment you just made sounds and is. But you actually typed it out so I’m assuming you truly believe and meant what you wrote.

It’s not stupid at all. Could you address what I said? Your excuse is “it’s not the players fault!” That mlb uses baseballs that help players accumulate stats. It’s obvious to me you never saw Bonds. Because if you did we wouldn’t be having this discussion

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

The definition of what is a realistic GOAT in hockey is trending downward due to better defense and goaltending, whereas in football, basketball, and baseball things are trending upward performance wise. It's getting harder to play hockey but 'easier' to play everything else.

McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin etc... would all have a credible case if you just ignored everything prior to the salary cap.

Agree with this. IMO, hockey is a game that is not dominated by athleticism as much as the other sports. Historically the skating and hockey ability between the elite players and the bottom halves of rosters was enormous, which enabled the elite players to dominate in ways that wasn't as possible in the other sports. Now, practicallyeveryone in the NHL is an amazing skater, and the systems are designed to minimize offensive chances allowed, which also shrinks the skill gap.

Other sports have evolved the rules to maximize offense, but for the most part the NHL hasn't followed suite.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

It’s not stupid at all. Could you address what I said? Your excuse is “it’s not the players fault!” That mlb uses baseballs that help players accumulate stats. It’s obvious to me you never saw Bonds. Because if you did we wouldn’t be having this discussion

Do you understand that you are stating that cheating and using PED’s is the same as Trout hitting a baseball that he has no control over.

Do you understand that? That is the highest level of stupidity there is.

 

[Red Piller]

Do you understand that you are stating that cheating and using PED’s is the same as Trout hitting a baseball that he has no control over.

Do you understand that? That is the highest level of stupidity there is.

It is the same though. They both help with stat accumulation. Do you disagree? And if so why?

 

[Voight]

If LeBron had stayed on the Cavs, he'd still be ringless. That team was a lottery team without him. It's a testament to LeBron's ability that they were able to make it to the finals.

Nobody in basketball can do it alone. Jordan couldn't even win a single playoff series without Pippen, let alone a championship. It wasn't just Pippen either. Rodman, Kerr, etc.. That team was excellent.

Fun fact - Jordan has never had a team mate average more than 18 PPG in the finals. LeBron has had two (Wade + Kyrie).... so for all the "Jordan had Pippen!" talk, he wasn't as big of a help come finals time.

Brady is greatest “winner” in football but I wouldn’t call him the greatest “player.” Kraft has done a phenomenal job at surrounding Brady with elite talent on both ends and sublime coaching personnel. Other QB’s at his level weren’t as fortunate

Not exactly true... Brady has made good players out of scrap heap/practice squad players/late picks. Yes Belichik is really good at evaluating talent but Brady has made careers for guys like Branch, Edelman, White, Welker etc

 

[Red Piller]

Do you understand that you are stating that cheating and using PED’s is the same as Trout hitting a baseball that he has no control over.

Do you understand that? That is the highest level of stupidity there is.

You have also said that Trout is on pace to break Bonds records and he will be a much better player than Bonds. Both of those statements are not true. Regardless of the PED vs juiced baseball arguments. It’s pretty obviously untrue.

You also claimed Trout has a chance to be the greatest of all time. Also untrue. You have provided nothing of substance to back up these statements. Good day sir

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

You have also said that Trout is on pace to break Bonds records and he will be a much better player than Bonds. Both of those statements are not true. Regardless of the PED vs juiced baseball arguments. It’s pretty obviously untrue.

You also claimed Trout has a chance to be the greatest of all time. Also untrue. You have provided nothing of substance to back up these statements. Good day sir

He is on pace to break a bunch of them. I didn’t say all of them.

There are already people out there that believe Trout is one of the best players to ever play. If he puts up 10-15 more years of stats, there will be no doubt that he will be the best. So to say those are “untrue” are simply false in itself.

I have already said that at 28 years of age, Trout is far outpacing Bonds in almost every offensive statistical category.

I don’t need to provide “substance”. Look it up. There’s a thing called Google. Use it.

 

[Red Piller]

He is on pace to break a bunch of them. I didn’t say all of them.

There are already people out there that believe Trout is one of the best players to ever play. If he puts up 10-15 more years of stats, there will be no doubt that he will be the best. So to say those are “untrue” are simply false in itself.

I have already said that at 28 years of age, Trout is far outpacing Bonds in almost every offensive statistical category.

I don’t need to provide “substance”. Look it up. There’s a thing called Google. Use it.

Again. He is able to hit juiced balls. Good for him. His stats are meaningless I guess just like Bonds.

HGH wasn’t even banned in the MLB until 2005. Spare me

I would argue further that the steroid era saved baseball.