Why do so many of the media think the Hall-Larsson trade changed the trade market?

[Eric Sachs]

I used stats.hockeyanalysis but sure. A whole 0.08 goals per game more. That's not within the margin of error or anything.

There's no ****ing margin of error on this stat. There's no random sampling here.

It's the amount of goals scored divided by the amount of games played. Where is the sampling bias possibly located here that you think there is a margin of error? Are you just throwing words out now after throwing stats out didn't work?

I'm all for making good, coherent arguments and I wouldn't mind hearing one that is contrary to what I think.. but when you try to make an argument by posting stats that disprove your argument or by a horrible misuse of logic/statistics, I'm going to call you out every time.

For the record, while I don't take back the trade as a Devils fan, I don't think it was highway robbery. Larsson is a fantastic defenseman and certainly key (though not the only key) in the Oiler's play this year. Hall has been fantastic for the Devils as well.. but the difference in the trade as we currently see it was the Oilers were more ready to take advantage of it, that's all. The Devils took likely the bigger gamble in that they would be able to use their current RHD defensive prospects (Severson, Santini) to eventually plug the hole Larsson left behind, which I am okay with considering we have no prospects that would have filled Hall's current shoes.

So like I said, I'm okay with fielding arguments and having a good conversation about the trade.. but don't just make **** up and then get annoyed when people call you out. If you're going to use stats, for god's sake, don't post ones that literally disprove what you're arguing. That's just dumb.

 

[LeafFever]

educated speculation

how many wingers are traded for defensemen these days anyway?

Educated? Have you seen Montour or viewed his stats?
No team will ever trade a blue chip 20 year old forward for him.

 

[Blender]

LOL at turning this into an issue against Leaf fans. This Leaf fan told you all Edmonton was going to make the playoffs and no one agreed with me.

*Leafs. There is no Leaf fans as that isn't a team.

I'm not turning into an issue of Leafs fans, but the most vocal people in this thread with a negative opinion of the trade have been a couple Leafs fans, who I'm fairly confident never watched the Devils and hardly ever watch the Oilers now. The point was the people that have actually seen Larsson play on a regular basis think the trade was reasonable and has worked out well for both teams.

 

[LeafFever]

*Leafs. There is no Leaf fans as that isn't a team.

I'm not turning into an issue of Leafs fans, but the most vocal people in this thread with a negative opinion of the trade have been a couple Leafs fans, who I'm fairly confident never watched the Devils and hardly ever watch the Oilers now. The point was the people that have actually seen Larsson play on a regular basis think the trade was reasonable and has worked out well for both teams.

It was a bad trade. That is my opinion.

 

[cbzblaze]

It's funny people are still talking about value with the Hall Larson deal.

Both players are playing good with their new clubs.
Both teams are happy with the outcome of the trade.
Both fan bases are happy with the trade.

Thats real value. Nothing else really matters.

Chia did this move because he had Lucic all but signed and puljujarvi picked, 2 wingers to lessen the loss of Hall. For years everyone laughed at the Oilers for sitting on their hands and refusing to move a forward for a quality upgrade on the back end. Well we finally did and are having success, but haters gotta hate I guess.

 

[Redline]

To me it's a poor example of a value trade. I tend to look at Johansen for Jones as a more practical value gauge. But when you fail to factor in the value(or lack of) of Hall for Larsson it opens up a lot more options that increase speculation and the media/insiders love it and take advantage.
Can't really blame them, it's more fun with less restrictions.

 

[ohcomeonref]

Montour is not very good.
Even dropping Nylander's name in that type of trade is a joke.

Montour isn't very good? So you're just making things up now?

 

[Menzinger]

Leave it to Chia to do something stupid and screw things up for everyone else

 

[Jesus Take the Wheel]

It was a bad trade. That is my opinion.

Your opinion just seems to be based on a poor argument though, trades aren't done in a vacuum.

Agreeing the Oilers needed a D, what was a better trade we could have made realistically that the other team would have made as well.

Larsson is young, has a cheap longterm contract, and is playing against the top competition on a team that has significantly improved in goals against this year.

 

[Renly Baratheon]

Because everyone knew the Oilers badly needed D every team knew they could force them to overpay. It sucked at the time but seeing where the Oilers are in the standings I'm happy with it. I'll take a more complete team that is playing competitive hockey after the new year to the same old crap I've watched for the past decade.

 

[Wewillrise]

Love how leaf fans can't get over the Oil. It's going to be glorious watching Mcdavid shut them out of winning the cup if they ever get there lol.

 

[traparatus]

I guess Hall would be a #1 LW on a Stanley Cup winning version of Devils. Larsson would be a #4 D on a Staley Cup winning version of Oilers. So there is some discrepancy in value.

None of that matters to the Oilers now, though. Their team had a massive hole on defense and they fixed it in the best way they could, something they failed to do for many seasons prior. It's not Oilers' management responsibility to create a fair trade market. It's their responsibility to make Edmonton Oilers a better team and that's exactly what they did.

 

[doubledown99]

Dmen are the most valuable commodity in the NHL. Teams are going to have to overpay (most likely) to get teams to move them. It wasn't always this way but there seem to be far fewer legit and impact dmen in the league and there importance has seemed to be magnified over the last several years (especially RHD).There is an opportunity this year with expansion looming that a team like the Leafs may not have to overpay (ANA - Vatanen and MIN -Brodin/Dumba/Scandella). But imo if they don't get a dmen before expansion it's going to cost them a ton (and any other team) as teams rarely make trades anymore and for good dmen I don't seem teams giving them up easily.

It seems teams are just going to have to draft and develop there dmen or overpay for one if they try to get one in trade

 

[Del Preston]

What the **** is with all the Leaf fans in here trashing Chiarelli? Still upset over the Kessel trade?

 

[Stealth JD]

Montour isn't very good? So you're just making things up now?

Perhaps he's thinking of Steve Montador (RIP)???

Montour has looked promising...but he's played what 7 or 8 games? That would be a tremendous leap of faith for Toronto to ship out Nylander for him.

 

[PuckInTheNards]

Watched both teams quite a bit this year - largely because of the trade. I'd rather have Larsson.

 

[Stealth JD]

Watched both teams quite a bit this year - largely because of the trade. I'd rather have Larsson.

Honestly, when all is said and done, i think we'll look back and say, "great trade for EDM...can't believe they only had to trade Hall for Larsson".

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

There's no ****ing margin of error on this stat. There's no random sampling here.

It's the amount of goals scored divided by the amount of games played. Where is the sampling bias possibly located here that you think there is a margin of error? Are you just throwing words out now after throwing stats out didn't work?

I'm all for making good, coherent arguments and I wouldn't mind hearing one that is contrary to what I think.. but when you try to make an argument by posting stats that disprove your argument or by a horrible misuse of logic/statistics, I'm going to call you out every time.

For the record, while I don't take back the trade as a Devils fan, I don't think it was highway robbery. Larsson is a fantastic defenseman and certainly key (though not the only key) in the Oiler's play this year. Hall has been fantastic for the Devils as well.. but the difference in the trade as we currently see it was the Oilers were more ready to take advantage of it, that's all. The Devils took likely the bigger gamble in that they would be able to use their current RHD defensive prospects (Severson, Santini) to eventually plug the hole Larsson left behind, which I am okay with considering we have no prospects that would have filled Hall's current shoes.

So like I said, I'm okay with fielding arguments and having a good conversation about the trade.. but don't just make **** up and then get annoyed when people call you out. If you're going to use stats, for god's sake, don't post ones that literally disprove what you're arguing. That's just dumb.

Man you guys are really upset about this whole thing, huh? It's like your nitpicking just to avoid addressing the fact that a difference of .06 goals/60 is not nearly enough to believe the devils offense is at all better.

The addition of Hall has not made a material impact on the devils offense. Can we agree on that? Or do you want to keep nitpicking on semantics?

 

[Sojourn]

Montour is not very good.
Even dropping Nylander's name in that type of trade is a joke.

I think the the joke is you trying to pass judgement on a player you clearly know nothing about.

If Montour were a Toronto prospect, I suspect we would be hearing all about him. He's a terrific young talent.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It was a bad trade. That is my opinion.

You've already established you are stat watching. No need to keep hammering on that point.

You really should try watching Adam Larsson some time though.

 

[Jumptheshark]

i think njd fans were the only people that originally thought the trade was closer then most other people. It was still an overpay by edm but by not as much as we all thought. Edmonton still needs a high scoring winger now that hall is gone since no other winger on the team has taken that role but they needed a top pairing d way more. Now the defence is 1 piece away from being a pretty good defensive unit.

cough cough

 

[JarvisFunk]

It was a bad trade. That is my opinion.

Then don't get mad when people call you out on it being a bad opinion. The Oilers are much better for it, and Devil's fans are happy too.

If the Oilers sucked, and the Devils fell apart your opinion would make sense, maybe you would even have a solid point.

 

[rynryn]

Wild needed a center.

They wouldn't add to Dumba (at the time #5 D, and a bit of a project) to get RNH, which on the surface would be a reasonable trade from a lot of people considering our surplus of D, RNH's youth, and the Wild's need for a top six center.

Young D, especially those heavily scouted and accordingly drafted high, are ultra premium pieces in the NHL even when they haven't shown much to a certain point.

I don't know if it's valid or not but there's a perception that D develop later--that you can better tell how a forward is going to project (24 yo RNH looking rather pedestrian) after a few years in the NHL while a young defenseman gets a longer leash before people peg them at a certain level.

TL;DR a young defenseman's "potential" is worth more than people often give credit for relative a scoring forward or forward prospect (and that prospect's potential).

 

[Eric Sachs]

Man you guys are really upset about this whole thing, huh? It's like your nitpicking just to avoid addressing the fact that a difference of .06 goals/60 is not nearly enough to believe the devils offense is at all better.

The addition of Hall has not made a material impact on the devils offense. Can we agree on that? Or do you want to keep nitpicking on semantics?

Talking about nitpicking while literally addressing half a sentence in a 3+ paragraph post

Don't make claims you can't back up without looking stupid, it's really simple.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Talking about nitpicking while literally addressing half a sentence in a 3+ paragraph post

Don't make claims you can't back up without looking stupid, it's really simple.

The addition of Hall has not made a material impact on the devils offense. Can we agree on that? Or do you want to keep nitpicking on semantics?