Why do so many of the media think the Hall-Larsson trade changed the trade market?

[AfroThunder396]

Losing Larsson has absolutely made Schneider's job much harder. He hasn't been playing well either, but it's hard to play Schneider's calm, positional style when your D corps is suddenly so weak.

You know Schneider has a .920 ES SV% right? Disappointing for a Vezina-caliber guy for sure, but overall he's been a middle of the pack goaltender relatively speaking.

NJ is averaging 3.3 more SF/G and is currently on pace for 7 more ES goals than last season. Not huge strides of course, but it's certainly better.

THIRTY SIX (36) of NJ's 54 games have been decided by one goal, I can't understand a context where 3 more SF/G and more ES scoring no matter how small isn't important.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

TFW a guy 4th on the team in PK minutes playing 20 minutes a night providing little offense without suppressing shots and goals effectively as Kris Russell is considered as good as a 1st line winger.

 

[Eric Sachs]

but how do they fix the defense? There are usually UFAs out there, but that's what they've already done. They got Lovejoy. My point is that you won't get a core type of defense that way or by trading some middling forwards. The best you could hope for is a guy like Demers. Not only that, but when a young D becomes available there is incredible competition to get them because of how important they are.

I suppose there is some hope around the expansion draft to find that D, but I doubt it. All key D will be protected imo.

So sure, they won the trade, but winning hockey games is not about winning trades. In fact, the worst trades are often made by the best teams. Chicago didn't get great value for Saad for example, and many contenders throw picks away for nothing just for rentals, rentals which often don't do all that great.

The Devils are (and were) much closer to replacing a Larsson internally than they would have been creating a Hall internally. No, we have no-one IMO who projects to be as good as Larsson but we have some very good RHD prospects at the NHL level already. We have no-one who projects to be even close to what Hall provides.

Like all trades, it's not something you can evaluate at the moment of the trade (i.e. Oilers drastically overpaid) or even half a season later (i.e. this thread). The biggest difference in the trade IMO is that Larsson was the final piece to the Oilers puzzle while Hall was a major foundational piece to the Devils puzzle. I could have told you when the trade when down the Oilers would see the more immediate return because they were much closer to competing already given the other talent they have. They probably gave up more in trade value but it was the last piece they needed to compete for the playoffs. For the Devils, Hall is a major foundational piece but wasn't that last piece they needed (nor was Larsson) so it's going to take a little while to see if the trade was truly worthwhile for them.

I don't think either team regrets or requests a do-over for that trade. It fit both team's timelines. Finished the Oilers rebuild and jumpstarted the Devils rebuild. The only people who are surprised at this point are likely fans that don't watch either team.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

TFW a guy 4th on the team in PK minutes playing 20 minutes a night providing little offense without suppressing shots and goals effectively as Kris Russell is considered as good as a 1st line winger.

Same reaction when you try to imply Russell is as good as Larsson.

 

[Del Preston]

TFW a guy 4th on the team in PK minutes playing 20 minutes a night providing little offense without suppressing shots and goals effectively as Kris Russell is considered as good as a 1st line winger.

You should try watching a game or two instead of looking up stats.

 

[major major]

The only two trades of a marquee forward for a young D are Hall - Larsson and Johansen - Jones. That's it. Don't go around talking about them as if they were some bizarre deviation from the market. They are the market. There are no other trades.

And yes, both the Jackets and Oilers had an exceptional need for D, but that's what helps shape the demand for the D side of the market. The Leafs will likely be in a similar position. It wouldn't shock me if they trade a top young forward for a young developing 3rd pair D, the trade is trashed by HF pundits, then the young D develops rapidly and helps turn the Leafs into a serious team.

 

[Mr Positive]

The Devils are (and were) much closer to replacing a Larsson internally than they would have been creating a Hall internally. No, we have no-one IMO who projects to be as good as Larsson but we have some very good RHD prospects at the NHL level already. We have no-one who projects to be even close to what Hall provides.

Like all trades, it's not something you can evaluate at the moment of the trade (i.e. Oilers drastically overpaid) or even half a season later (i.e. this thread). The biggest difference in the trade IMO is that Larsson was the final piece to the Oilers puzzle while Hall was a major foundational piece to the Devils puzzle. I could have told you when the trade when down the Oilers would see the more immediate return because they were much closer to competing already given the other talent they have. They probably gave up more in trade value but it was the last piece they needed to compete for the playoffs. For the Devils, Hall is a major foundational piece but wasn't that last piece they needed (nor was Larsson) so it's going to take a little while to see if the trade was truly worthwhile for them.

I don't think either team regrets or requests a do-over for that trade. It fit both team's timelines. Finished the Oilers rebuild and jumpstarted the Devils rebuild. The only people who are surprised at this point are likely fans that don't watch either team.

my main point is that the deal is more equal than it appears, even without the context of what the teams need. The fact is that fans and the media do not appreciate players like Larsson as much as GMs do. They are both players that are very hard to find in free agency.

If the Devils have a great young defensmen ready to take the next step then that's great, but without being established yet you must admit your rebuild/re-tool has introduced some serious risk. Of course, if you can fill that hole left by trading Larsson, then it will have been a brilliant trade because the ceiling of success will be higher with a player like Hall on board, and that risk will have been worth it.

 

[McPuritania]

You should try watching a game or two instead of looking up stats.

But look at that spicy picture. Game, set, match.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

You should try watching a game or two instead of looking up stats.

The entire argument being used to support Larsson is a team stat, wins. Individual statistics give you a better idea of the impact a player makes on a game. Your narrative is much more simple tho, so let's just go with that. Lucic > Hall as well bc Ws.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

my main point is that the deal is more equal than it appears, even without the context of what the teams need. The fact is that fans and the media do not appreciate players like Larsson as much as GMs do. They are both players that are very hard to find in free agency.

If the Devils have a great young defensmen ready to take the next step then that's great, but without being established yet you must admit your rebuild/re-tool has introduced some serious risk. Of course, if you can fill that hole left by trading Larsson, then it will have been a brilliant trade because the ceiling of success will be higher with a player like Hall on board, and that risk will have been worth it.

Santini is a safe bet to replace Larsson. Similar type player with much more nastiness than Larsson had at his age (though Larsson has added that last season and even more this year). He does what Larsson does well + he's a way better skater. It's safe to assume he can be a 20 minute guy with mediocre offense. Solid defensive d men don't grow on trees, but they're more common than Hall type players.

 

[Del Preston]

The entire argument being used to support Larsson is a team stat, wins. Individual statistics give you a better idea of the impact a player makes on a game. Your narrative is much more simple tho, so let's just go with that. Lucic > Hall as well bc Ws.

My argument is that Larsson has been a big part of the Oilers defense being improved this season, which is why the team is in a playoff spot right now.

Yours is calling people clowns who don't agree with you, pulling up stats with no context, and posting memes.

Great job.

 

[La Bamba]

The only two trades of a marquee forward for a young D are Hall - Larsson and Johansen - Jones. That's it. Don't go around talking about them as if they were some bizarre deviation from the market. They are the market. There are no other trades.

And yes, both the Jackets and Oilers had an exceptional need for D, but that's what helps shape the demand for the D side of the market. The Leafs will likely be in a similar position. It wouldn't shock me if they trade a top young forward for a young developing 3rd pair D, the trade is trashed by HF pundits, then the young D develops rapidly and helps turn the Leafs into a serious team.

And both the Oilers and Jackets are much better off after those deals.

I find it hilarious how people still waste their time and energy saying that the Oilers lost the deal. The Oilers went from a basement-dweller to a legit playoff contender and one of the better defensive teams in the league largely due to Larsson.

This isn't EA Sports where a player has a concrete "trade value" league-wide. Every team views players differently in terms of value so when people say Hall is worth more, it isn't necessarily true.

 

[Eric Sachs]

my main point is that the deal is more equal than it appears, even without the context of what the teams need. The fact is that fans and the media do not appreciate players like Larsson as much as GMs do. They are both players that are very hard to find in free agency.

If the Devils have a great young defensmen ready to take the next step then that's great, but without being established yet you must admit your rebuild/re-tool has introduced some serious risk. Of course, if you can fill that hole left by trading Larsson, then it will have been a brilliant trade because the ceiling of success will be higher with a player like Hall on board, and that risk will have been worth it.

The deal was more equal than it appeared to anyone who didn't watch Larsson play, this season shouldn't have had to tell anyone that. You can go back and read the threads.. not many Devils fans thought it was an absolute steal, rightfully so.

I don't agree that we introduced some serious risk though. If we had gone on the same path we were already following, we had some serious risk in that we were banking on one of our current prospects surprising and developing into a top line player. We have Zacha but otherwise, no-one who projects to be a top line player and you need more than one guy. All the trade did was move the risk from developing a top line forward to developing a top pairing defender.. and as I said, we are closer to doing the latter than the former. I have more faith in Santini/Severson replacing Larsson than Speers, Quenneville, etc. becoming a Hall.

 

[North]

Before the trade: Oilers have to trade one of their 6 million dollar guys for d if they want to get better.

They do it and get better.

After the trade: Stupid Oilers trading Hall for Larsson.

Was it full value? No. Would a second round pick make it look better? Sure. Are they hurting without Hall? No.

 

[North]

The deal was more equal than it appeared to anyone who didn't watch Larsson play, this season shouldn't have had to tell anyone that. You can go back and read the threads.. not many Devils fans thought it was an absolute steal, rightfully so.

I don't agree that we introduced some serious risk though. If we had gone on the same path we were already following, we had some serious risk in that we were banking on one of our current prospects surprising and developing into a top line player. We have Zacha but otherwise, no-one who projects to be a top line player and you need more than one guy. All the trade did was move the risk from developing a top line forward to developing a top pairing defender.. and as I said, we are closer to doing the latter than the former. I have more faith in Santini/Severson replacing Larsson than Speers, Quenneville, etc. becoming a Hall.

In other words it was a risk worth taking for New Jersey and a risk worth taking for the Oilers.

They each got a player they needed.

This season may not be showing results right now, but the experience Santini and Severson are getting can only help for next season.

Larsson helps the Oilers play their other d in proper slots and he is really smart at playing within his skill set.

 

[Eric Sachs]

In other words it was a risk worth taking for New Jersey and a risk worth taking for the Oilers.

They each got a player they needed.

This season may not be showing results right now, but the experience Santini and Severson are getting can only help for next season.

Larsson helps the Oilers play their other d in proper slots and he is really smart at playing within his skill set.

Absolutely. Which is why it's annoying when Devils or Oilers fans act like they got the home-run here when really, they are the only two fan bases that know the true value in this deal. Let everyone else who doesn't watch either of these teams argue until they're blue in the face instead.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Leave it to Chia to do something stupid and screw things up for everyone else

Yeah, Oilers GA improved from 26th to 8th
What an idiot

 

[gwh]

The Oilers have McDavid. They were going to be competitive this year regardless as long as he was healthy.

WHAT?

You are talking about a team that blew half dozen 1st OVs while being the bottom in the league. One good season after a decade of stink...

How short memories people have here?

 

[gwh]

Same reaction when you try to imply Russell is as good as Larsson.

Yea Russell has been pretty underwhelming for the 10 games or so i ve watched. Puck moving D that doesn't move the puck and gets killed in the own zone.

Where is Davidson btw? I was quite convinced that there is top4 potential there...

 

[FerrisRox]

​

The Oilers have McDavid. They were going to be competitive this year regardless as long as he was healthy.

So the dramatic defensive improvement on the team is because of McDavid?

I'm not sure you thought this one through...

 

[Gavy]

Toronto has too many forwards, and are weak on D. Nylander for Montour would be an extremely smart move, Leaf fans will never accept that though so no point arguing.

What terrible logic.

It would never be an " extremely smart" move to overpay for a player

 

[Gavy]

Dude I never said that. I said it's a big part of the reason why we're better. Holy crap.

Holy crap, you've looked pretty bad in this thread lmao.

I'll give you an example. Frederik Andersen has single handedly stolen games for the LEAFS this year. He's helped us win a lot of games. But if we traded our next 3 first round picks for him plus KK, it'd be a bad trade even though it helped us become a better team.


Do you get it now?

 

[Aceboogie]

That's ridiculous. I guarantee the Leafs would never do that.

Nice LeafFever, good to know. You have input into the teams decision making process

 

[Ninety7]

Holy crap, you've looked pretty bad in this thread lmao.

I'll give you an example. Frederik Andersen has single handedly stolen games for the LEAFS this year. He's helped us win a lot of games. But if we traded our next 3 first round picks for him plus KK, it'd be a bad trade even though it helped us become a better team.


Do you get it now?

Again with the slippery slope from you guys. What a drastic over exaggeration and analogy that you're trying to make.

Larsson is a great young player. Stop acting like he's a piece of garbage. His value was close to Hall.

I find it funny how you guys think that the value was so bad, yet you can't even name another defenseman that could have been had for Taylor hall.

Stop trying to compare the trade with ridiculous things like "Fredrick Anderson for the 1st round picks and KK lulzzzzzzz"

Do you get it now?

 

[LeafFever]

Nice LeafFever, good to know. You have input into the teams decision making process

I'm open to any bets you may want to make with me on this.

Lou would never trade Nylander for Montour. I guarantee it.