Who's the 5th best ever?

[895]

Crosby might have a claim for 5th best player but certainly not 5th greatest.

Greatest means accomplishments, personal or team, without considering other factors. That he was injured and missed out on some personal awards affects his greatness.

Hull, Beliveau, Richard, Harvey, Roy and Hasek are all good choices for 5th best.

 

[CHGoalie27]

NHL....the only sport where we already saw the Best Players to ever play.

Makes alot of sense.

Growing up it was Joe Montana was the Best QB and wasn't close. I don't even hear his name mentioned anymore. Why? Numbers. People only look at stats...period. NFl is a passing league....Montana not only not the best anymore...if a poll was done hed prob be ranked in the 100s.

Lol....how people still dont get that the NHL back in 80s...90s when it was much easier to score(hell even days of Orr, Howe....the goalies were smaller than the actual players...just standing in the net lol) yet nothing else matters but "Points". And even with that...Crosby has put up alot of points while also missing a ton of games. Yes its mentioned just like Lemieux missing time is....Barry Sanders retiring after 9 seasons (would have destroyed Emmitt Smith's total yards), Jim Brown the same, and so on.

The ones who discount missed time are those who havent watched at all...or just simply hate.

As for last 6 seasons? 2 cup wins 2 Conn Smythes.

And his playoff numbers are crazy....

Real things.

I have grown to hate the stats, for other than fantasy sports, but peopler quick to ignore the human side. I'd bet a million bucks and both rocks that the mid 70s Flyers would've beaten pretty much anyone in the last few years. Does Auston Matthews or Sidney Crosby do what they did with 3 toothless 50 year old looking 29 year olds trying to kill them and who on the rest of the team is gonna stop them?

It's kinda like Eric Cairns on the Rangers vs Eric Cairns after the Rangers. Eric Cairns on the Rangers was a young imposing physical character, but any NHLer with some gusto could kick his ass. When he went to the island, he grew into his nastiness. We're watching a lot of the first version.

As for the goalies, there's over 30 goalies today that may have been hall of famers back in the day. If they didn't mind having to feel every puck that hits em and straight up brawl on any given night.

Keith Yandle is a staple on my winning fantasy hockey teams. He causes every 3rd or 4th loss for whatever team he's on in real life (yes, while helping get points and win the others, before anyone starts LOL). Gordie Howe would've chewed Shattenkirk like gum.

And while I'm hating things, I hate goalies being ranked with skaters.

 

[Just doink]

Hasek, Lindström then Jagr 5-7.

From this list where 5 is the best free spot, which it isn't.

 

[bobholly39]

Crosby might have a claim for 5th best player but certainly not 5th greatest.

Greatest means accomplishments, personal or team, without considering other factors. That he was injured and missed out on some personal awards affects his greatness.

Hull, Beliveau, Richard, Harvey, Roy and Hasek are all good choices for 5th best.

The thing Crosby has going for him is that he has no weaknesses in his resume.

Peak? Great peak. No it's not as good as it could have been - but against most of the usual top 10-15 candidates it holds up nicely still (esp when you have Beliveau, Harvey or Roy in there)

Playoffs? Great playoff resume. He has the smythes, the cup runs, the overall consistency - again he does very well here against the usual top 10-15 players

Prime/Consistency? He's actually one of the best ever here - probably top 3 with Bourque/Howe, maybe Gretzky.

International resume? Yep, he's up there among the best ever.

Leadership/intangibles? Harder to quantify, but was youngest captain, led teams to victory at every level as captain, great overall reputation too.

Awards? He has plenty. Not the most it's true - but compare him to Beliveau for example and he does super well, and Beliveau is a very popular #5 guy

Finally - "greatest vs best". It's tricky to compare the 2. But i'd argue Crosby has a better case for 5th greatest, than 5th best. His peak (especially if you consider what could have been) is fantastic - but to be the 5th "best" would mean he has the 5th greatest peak. He doesn't. Guys like Hasek, Lafleur even, maybe even Ovechkin or Jagr, Hull - many players in history may have been "better" than Crosby at his best, or for longer. He's great because of his consistency mostly.

To be clear i'm not saying Crosby at #5 is indisputable - I just think it helps his case how well rounded his resume is, with no glaring weaknesses. Beliveau is very much this way too.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Beliveau
Hasek
Hull
Ovie
Crosby

 

[Iceman]

These results are disgusting.

 

[Captain Bowie]

I don't think it makes much sense to have goalies and skaters on the same poll. The positions are just too different for any meaningful comparison.

Drink!

 

[DannyGallivan]

I don't think it makes much sense to have goalies and skaters on the same poll. The positions are just too different for any meaningful comparison.

I have always stated this as well. I could not agree more.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Bobby Hull
Hasek
Beliveau
Ovy
Crosby

 

[Nosferatu]

Gordie Howe. Jagr is 4 th period!!!

 

[Kamiccolo]

Mats Sundin

 

[MLSE]

Rocket Richard

 

[wetcoast]

So at 32 years old people already have Crosby as the 5th best player of all time? This board is insane.

His first 14 years level of play has been insane, who else on that list can match that?

 

[wetcoast]

How is Crosby nearly winning this?? For me, Crosby's career is somewhat overrated. He hasn't shown the same dominance since his first 6 season's in the league. Can you honestly say he's been the been the best player in the league in the last 5 years? I don't think you can. McDavid, Kucherov, Kane have had better seasons.

The achievements will always be there but looking at it individually, there are players on that last who were more dominant.

Well he is the leading scorer both in the regular season and layoffs over the last 5 years so yes to the part in bold.

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[wetcoast]

I have always stated this as well. I could not agree more.

Agree as it's too hard to separate team from goalies so I'll always prefer ranking position players and goalies separately.

That being said I still took Hasek as he simply did stand out.

But there are arguments for 3 other guys as well IMO.

 

[Whaleafs]

I’m leaning towards Lafleur but it’s a tough call after the big 4.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Gordie Howe. Jagr is 4 th period!!!

Incoming compelling argument I hope...

 

[daver]

Hull and Beliveau are the usual #5 candidates. Some other notables:

5th best peak - Hasek (only player to have a peak comparable to the Big 4) but his prime and playoffs is lacking

5th best offensive player - Jagr has a good argument but his all around game and playoffs are lacking

5th best career after 14 seasons/by age 31 - Crosby has the best argument; perhaps only needs one or two more elite seasons to take the #5 spot

 

[wetcoast]

I’m leaning towards Lafleur but it’s a tough call after the big 4.

Lafleur doesn't even crack the top 10 if you stop and think about it.

 

[wetcoast]

Hull and Beliveau are the usual #5 candidates. Some other notables:

5th best peak - Hasek (only player to have a peak comparable to the Big 4) but his prime and playoffs is lacking

5th best offensive player - Jagr has a good argument but his all around game and playoffs are lacking

5th best career after 14 seasons/by age 31 - Crosby has the best argument; perhaps only needs one or two more elite seasons to take the #5 spot

I think you can add Bourque and Lidstrom to the above players.

Also Hasek was godlike in the playoffs for a weak sabers teams but overall his resume is "lacking" I guess.

Jagr was very good in the playoffs individually when he was "the man" but by then his teams were really weak.

 

[daver]

Crosby would be toe to toe with Howe offensively if not for unlucky and untimely injuries after his first 14 seasons. Moreso than Hull and Beliveau.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lemieux
Gretzky
Orr
Howe
Crosby

 

[ricky0034]

I don't think there's really a super clear choice here but I lean towards Hasek both because of his peak and because he has a what if factor that isn't even injury related in that whole iron curtain thing

I give a lot more credit to a what if like that than that than for injuries that often are influenced by playstyle and on some level the players own fault

 

[Whaleafs]

Lafleur doesn't even crack the top 10 if you stop and think about it.

That’s just your opinion if you stop and think about it

 

[Thenameless]

On the upper end of expectations he looks good with Howe, on the lower end, still behind, but closer.

He only looks good with Howe from an offensive perspective. I still maintain that Howe was better at checking, and better at the physical side/intimidation part of the game by leaps and bounds. Just a more complete player.