Who's the 5th best ever?

[Fugazy]

Jagr.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Pretty ridiculous not to have the greatest player of the current generation on here.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Pretty ridiculous not to have the greatest player of the current generation on here.

Crosby's on the list of option's, but he shouldn't be considered for 5th all-time yet though.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Pretty ridiculous not to have the greatest player of the current generation on here.

???
He's there.

 

[Hustlr]

I don’t think Hasek influenced the game enough to be at #5 on the list. Jagr, Lidstrom, or Crosby for me.

 

[Hustlr]

Pretty ridiculous not to have the greatest player of the current generation on here.

It’s too early for McD

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Jagr

 

[djdub]

How is Mark Messier not an option? He's probably the most deserving of the spot.

 

[vancityluongo]

Lots of questionable opinions expressed with the utmost certainty in this thread lol.

Please go read the History of Hockey section.

The shit most of you are saying is akin to saying anyone posting here is "smarter" than Einstein because we'd be better at navigating an iPhone lol.

Crosby is not dominant enough compared to his peers to be the 5th best player ever in the way people generally talk about these rankings. That doesn't mean that Tyler Myers sent back in a time machine to the f***ing 1930's wouldn't be better than Eddie Shore; it just means that their accomplishments are not comparable in a relative sense.

I voted Harvey. 7 Norris' is incredible. Lidstrom would be a solid choice for that reason too. Could be swayed towards Beliveau too. Sid is approaching top-10 status and will be there by the time he retires IMO, but not just yet.

 

[Captain Bowie]

How is Mark Messier not an option? He's probably the most deserving of the spot.

How much time do you have?

 

[Dominance]

BS not to include Ovy here as an option BTW.

No, even though he’s better than some of the players up there.

The only options should be Crosby, Richard, Jagr, Hull, Harvey, and Beliveau, the guys that round out the top-10. Hasek and Roy, maybe, but I don’t feel comfortable rating goalies alongside skaters.

 

[High five Tom]

Lindros

 

[Machinehead]

I used to watch Sabres games to watch Hasek play goal.

I mean, you know I'm a numbers guy, but everyone here has gaudy numbers.

When the stats are close, I think there's something to be said for the "get you out of your seat" factor.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Crosby

Injuries took away from him the chance to pass Howe.

Healthy Crosby wins the 11,12,13, and 15 art Ross trophies along with hart+lindsay combos in 3 of the 4. 07/08 he would have also been closer to the Ross though I think he ends up losing out. His 3 best years were unfortunately riddled with injuries from 11-13

Lol

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Hasek imo.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

No love for Messier?

 

[Machinehead]

Hasek's dominance was during the regular season, so I personally wouldn't put him over a few other goaltenders who had lesser peaks but stellar playoff resumes (Roy, Plante, Sawchuk).

I wish the NHL had a boxing like pound-for-pound rating system, because I believe there are players from older eras that largely get forgotten when it comes to these lists.

I picked Roy, but I don't think it would be odd to hear an argument for Eddie Shore or Joe Malone.

Joe Malone with his 44 goals in 20 games lol.

Although historians of that era have told me he wasn't the best player then despite his ridiculous numbers.

 

[Machinehead]

No love for Messier?

Nobody ever seems to have any love for Messier and I think that's caused him to become underrated on all-time lists.

He should absolutely be an option.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

I think Jagr or Hasek could either be number 5 right NOW, I think either Crosby OR Ovi could pass them by the time it all plays out depending on the next few seasons.... I voted for Crosby because I think he has the better chance and OVI is not on the ballet lol

 

[7even]

Lots of questionable opinions expressed with the utmost certainty in this thread lol.

Please go read the History of Hockey section.

The **** most of you are saying is akin to saying anyone posting here is "smarter" than Einstein because we'd be better at navigating an iPhone lol.

Crosby is not dominant enough compared to his peers to be the 5th best player ever in the way people generally talk about these rankings. That doesn't mean that Tyler Myers sent back in a time machine to the ****ing 1930's wouldn't be better than Eddie Shore; it just means that their accomplishments are not comparable in a relative sense.

I voted Harvey. 7 Norris' is incredible. Lidstrom would be a solid choice for that reason too. Could be swayed towards Beliveau too. Sid is approaching top-10 status and will be there by the time he retires IMO, but not just yet.

I don't f*** with this argument because there's no way to control for the distribution of talent. How many people play hockey now compared to 1930; how talented is the average peer? What does that do to the usefulness of your sample? As you approach the limit of how talented a group of 700 individuals can be, the percent better the best player can be above the worst player shrinks.

 

[bukwas]

Other - Sawchuk

 

[ResilientBeast]

Hasek's dominance was during the regular season, so I personally wouldn't put him over a few other goaltenders who had lesser peaks but stellar playoff resumes (Roy, Plante, Sawchuk).

I wish the NHL had a boxing like pound-for-pound rating system, because I believe there are players from older eras that largely get forgotten when it comes to these lists.

I picked Roy, but I don't think it would be odd to hear an argument for Eddie Shore or Joe Malone.

Joe Malone with his 44 goals in 20 games lol.

Although historians of that era have told me he wasn't the best player then despite his ridiculous numbers.

Yeah Malone is very clearly not a top 5, 20, 50 guy. He finished 72 on the HOH list.

Of contemporaries at just center Cyclone Taylor, Newsy Lalonde and Frank Nighbor were almost unquestionably better players and more highly thought of at the time. From a post of mine from the project

The Mega Comparison
Taylor v Nighbor v Morenz v Malone v Lalonde v Stewart
Starting with using this old thread by Dreakmur which attempted to standardize scoring between the PCHA/WCHL/NHA and consolidate the scoring into one simple leaderboard. There are a few caveats but it is the best we have at harmonizing the two (three) leagues scoring.
(/1912-1926 Consolidation) Finishes in the NHL from 1926-27 forward will be taken from hockey reference. I have included how many seasons the player played that are accounted for by the consolidated leader boards.
(Disclaimer done by hand, any mistakes are accidents)

Cyclone Taylor (All after the age of 28 from his time in the PCHA) - 9 Seasons
Goals - 1, 1, 2, 6 (4)
Assists - 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 (6)
Points - 1, 1, 1, 2, 4, 9 (6)

Frank Nighbor - 18 Seasons
Goals - 1 (Tie with Malone), 5, 6, 7, 10 (5)
Assists - 2, 2, 3, 5, 8, 9 (6)
Points - 1, 5, 5, 6, 10 (5)

Howie Morenz - 15 Seasons
Goals - 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6 (11)
Assists - 1, 3, 3, 5, 5, 6, 8 (7)
Points - 1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 7, 9, 10 (9)

Joe Malone - 13 Seasons
Goals - 1, 1(tie with Nighbor), 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10 (9)
Assists - 5 (1)
Points - 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 8, 9, 10 (8)

Newsy Lalonde - 17 Seasons (Also won a scoring title in the 1910 NHA added below)
Goals - 1, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 7, 7 (8)
Assists - 2, 9, 10, 10, 10 (5)
Points - 1, 1, 3, 4, 5, 5, 8, 8, 10 (8)

Nels Stewart - 16 Seasons
Goals - 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4 , 5, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9 (12)
Assists - 6, 8 (2)
Points - 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10 (10)

What we can learn just by looking at these top 10s
- Taylor was the best playmaker of the 6 players above.
- Morenz was probably the best goalscorer of the 6 players above
- Nighbor is maybe the worst offensive player of the 6 above.
- Lalonde was better offensively than Malone and definitely more well rounded
- Stewart and Morenz had remarkable longevity as a top 10 goal scorers
- All six would have won an Art Ross (Probably)

 

[Captain Bowie]

Nobody ever seems to have any love for Messier and I think that's caused him to become underrated on all-time lists.

He should absolutely be an option.

What is the case for him to be included?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

What is the case for him to be included?

3rd all time in scoring
2 Harts
2 Pearsons
1 Conn Smythe
Only player to captain two different teams to the Stanley Cup

That doesn't warrant being included?

 

[Machinehead]

3rd all time in scoring
2 Harts
2 Pearsons
1 Conn Smythe
Only player to captain two different teams to the Stanley Cup

That doesn't warrant being included?

Not to mention he won all that hardware at the height of Wayne/Mario f***ery.

It was never harder to win trophies.