Who's the 5th best ever?

[Voight]

How is Crosby nearly winning this?? For me, Crosby's career is somewhat overrated. He hasn't shown the same dominance since his first 6 season's in the league. Can you honestly say he's been the been the best player in the league in the last 5 years? I don't think you can. McDavid, Kucherov, Kane have had better seasons.

The achievements will always be there but looking at it individually, there are players on that last who were more dominant.

This and 2 Art Ross' + Harts is a a little underwhelming for a supposed 5th best of all time.

Ya ya injuries blah blah blah I could care less if he was on pace to win an award in a season where he didn't. What matters is actual awards won. Not fantasy scenarios.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

I’m sad Maurice Richard isn’t gettin more votes

 

[tsujimoto74]

Hasek. GOAT goalie.

 

[Ben White]

Include Forsberg for god’s sake

 

[Benedict Kovalchuk]

How is Crosby nearly winning this?? For me, Crosby's career is somewhat overrated. He hasn't shown the same dominance since his first 6 season's in the league. Can you honestly say he's been the been the best player in the league in the last 5 years? I don't think you can. McDavid, Kucherov, Kane have had better seasons.

The achievements will always be there but looking at it individually, there are players on that last who were more dominant.

You are dead-on correct regarding his drop-off in dominance after his first six seasons, and even then you have to ignore or at least greatly downplay Ovi's accomplishments at that exact same time.

Anyways, he's doing as well as he is because posters on HF regularly try to credit him for things he could have done, but didn't actually do. Its ridiculous imo, and nobody else seems to get that credit either.

 

[Former Referee 68]

Messier

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

Lemieux has Hasek beat quite easily in peak, prime, and career, and both individual and team accomplishments. Hasek is more on the same level as Jagr.

wow, you're right. I was skeptical that a poster named Luigi Lemieux would be objective about it, but your indepth analysis is impeachable.

 

[dortt]

Hasek's dominance was during the regular season, so I personally wouldn't put him over a few other goaltenders who had lesser peaks but stellar playoff resumes (Roy, Plante, Sawchuk).

I wish the NHL had a boxing like pound-for-pound rating system, because I believe there are players from older eras that largely get forgotten when it comes to these lists.

I picked Roy, but I don't think it would be odd to hear an argument for Eddie Shore or Joe Malone.

Hasek has a higher postseason save percentage than the other goalies you named. He didn't win because those Buffalo teams were BAD. Michael Peca and Curtis Brown were the number 1 center during his time there.

 

[Cotton]

historians of that era have told me.

No they didn't.

 

[dortt]

Jagr. Head and shoulders above the rest of the league for a while there after Lemieux retired. Also if you're gonna have Crosby up there you need to have Ovechkin.

Hasek was the best player in the NHL, even before Lemieux's first retirement. Jagr was the best skater after the retirement, but not the best player

 

[Cotton]

Hasek has a higher postseason save percentage than the other goalies you named. He didn't win because those Buffalo teams were BAD. Michael Peca and Curtis Brown were the number 1 center during his time there.

No he doesn't. They didnt have SV% in Plante and Sawchuks time, though some guy with the HHOF later went back and calculated Plante had several season of a SV% in the late .930's.

Hasek also faced an average of 20 shots per game in the post season with Detroit. He's a regular season warrior who's playoff resume doesn't touch the other three.

 

[bobbyking]

Crosby

Injuries took away from him the chance to pass Howe.

Healthy Crosby wins the 11,12,13, and 15 art Ross trophies along with hart+lindsay combos in 3 of the 4. 07/08 he would have also been closer to the Ross though I think he ends up losing out. His 3 best years were unfortunately riddled with injuries from 11-13

yes most of this is true he also lost a rocket due to injuries but hasek actually accomplished a peak that is superior to Roy and brodeur. So it's hasek. You could even say jagr although Crosby kills him in the po

 

[dortt]

No he doesn't. They didnt have SV% in Plante and Sawchuks time, though some guy with the HHOF later went back and calculated Plante had several season of a SV% in the late .930's.

Hasek also faced an average of 20 shots per game in the post season with Detroit. He's a regular season warrior who's playoff resume doesn't touch the other three.

Look at his stats with Buffalo in the playoffs. He had series where he was well over .930 and still lost. Take the 94 series vs NJ as exhibit A. That may have been one of the best series a goalie has ever played

 

[Machinehead]

No they didn't.

I mean, one of them did in this thread in response to my post...

 

[bobbyking]

Then the discussion of "greatness" can't really happen, because no one is great if everyone is. Greatness isn't an absolute measurement.

Your argument might hold for comparing between Crosby vs whoever the best player is in 20 years if we're talking about a 30 team league vs a 32 team league then, but there definitely weren't 700 professional hockey players in the 1930's. And even then, the comparison is not between the best player and the worst player in the league; it is between the best and the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best at the time. To win 7 Hart Trophies or Norris Trophies should essentially be as difficult now as it was back then.

Again, just because the average person is smarter now than the average person 500 years ago when most of the planet was literally illiterate, doesn't mean that those who achieved incredible academic breakthroughs back then should have their accomplishments diminished.

False. The league had no euros or Americans. Pure trash era. Think wed have an all Canadian nhl today ?

 

[SillyRabbit]

If Crosby didn’t miss out on those two Art Ross, two Hart, two Lindsay and one Rocket Richard trophies due to injuries, people would be way less “outraged” that he’s got votes.

The fact remains that he was the best player in the league in each of those seasons, along with many other seasons.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Crosby

Great player but c’mon.

This is just a result of the age level on this site.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Crosby

Great player but c’mon.

This is just a result of the age level on this site.

NHL....the only sport where we already saw the Best Players to ever play.

Makes alot of sense.

Growing up it was Joe Montana was the Best QB and wasn't close. I don't even hear his name mentioned anymore. Why? Numbers. People only look at stats...period. NFl is a passing league....Montana not only not the best anymore...if a poll was done hed prob be ranked in the 100s.

Lol....how people still dont get that the NHL back in 80s...90s when it was much easier to score(hell even days of Orr, Howe....the goalies were smaller than the actual players...just standing in the net lol) yet nothing else matters but "Points". And even with that...Crosby has put up alot of points while also missing a ton of games. Yes its mentioned just like Lemieux missing time is....Barry Sanders retiring after 9 seasons (would have destroyed Emmitt Smith's total yards), Jim Brown the same, and so on.

The ones who discount missed time are those who havent watched at all...or just simply hate.

As for last 6 seasons? 2 cup wins 2 Conn Smythes.

And his playoff numbers are crazy....

Real things.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

NHL....the only sport where we already saw the Best Players to ever play.

Makes alot of sense.

Growing up it was Joe Montana was the Best QB and wasn't close. I don't even hear his name mentioned anymore. Why? Numbers. People only look at stats...period. NFl is a passing league....Montana not only not the best anymore...if a poll was done hed prob be ranked in the 100s.

Lol....how people still dont get that the NHL back in 80s...90s when it was much easier to score(hell even days of Orr, Howe....the goalies were smaller than the actual players...just standing in the net lol) yet nothing else matters but "Points". And even with that...Crosby has put up alot of points while also missing a ton of games. Yes its mentioned just like Lemieux missing time is....Barry Sanders retiring after 9 seasons (would have destroyed Emmitt Smith's total yards), Jim Brown the same, and so on.

The ones who discount missed time are those who havent watched at all...or just simply hate.

As for last 6 seasons? 2 cup wins 2 Conn Smythes.

And his playoff numbers are crazy....

Real things.

Penguins fan.

NHL should stop with these awards. Complete stupidity. I always fail to understand why people bring this up as some kind of argument.

That is real.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

You are dead-on correct regarding his drop-off in dominance after his first six seasons, and even then you have to ignore or at least greatly downplay Ovi's accomplishments at that exact same time.

Anyways, he's doing as well as he is because posters on HF regularly try to credit him for things he could have done, but didn't actually do. Its ridiculous imo, and nobody else seems to get that credit either.

Using common sense...tells those people he would have.

And he actually won the 2 conn Smythes recently but still not given credit so dont whine about hockey fans actually watching the game and knowing he was by far the best at that time he took that head shot. So he would have been the only player to never have a peak? Lol again...use common sense. It wasnt just the fact he was on his way to ridiculous totals but those were his peak seasons. He even came back and still put up over 100 points...how many others could?

 

[Ratatoskr]

I don't think it makes much sense to have goalies and skaters on the same poll. The positions are just too different for any meaningful comparison.

 

[wintersej]

Lol

I rarely agree with your posts. But I do this one!

 

[bobholly39]

Include Forsberg for god’s sake

lol

 

[wetcoast]

Hasek.

I went with Hasek but Bourque, Lidstrom and Crosby are all in the mix as well.

 

[King1s]

McDavid.