Line Combos: Who's our backup goalie and bottom 6 forwards for the 2019-2020 season?

[pantherbot]

I just agreed a trade with Calgary fans!

Trocheck + a 4th round pick for T.J. Brodie and Mark Jankowski.

Brodie solidifies our top 4D and is an ideal partner for Matheson. Janowski helps with the centre depth and slots into out 3rd line. Helping with the PK. Brodies caphit means we can still go for a goaltender plus Panarin.

We lose Trocheck which would be a big loss even if he is having a bad season for his standards. However, we sign Panarin in the offseason, and he plays with Borgstrom on the 2nd line.

Thoughts?

I'm not souring on borg, but he can't be trusted to anchor the second line. He has the occasionally flash and then goes quiet for a long time. I think it'll take him a while longer to adjust.

Trocheck... I still have some hope he can rebound. He had a bad start to the season (could be off ice stuff with his new kid) and then the injury. He was a beast and sparkplug when he came back, but clearly isn't back to form. I think he deserves to show us what he brings next season.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Depends how much he wants. And how much Matheson has improved by then!

Only allows one more year to decide though. Just feel theres too much uncertainty at C after this deal. Guess you can argue the defense and goaltending will be better with upgrades but want to give Trocheck one more year to bounce back.

Still on the side of the fence with keeping Tro and adding a top 4 RD with futures instead of taking away depth at C just as it should be coming together in theory. If Borgstrom had 2 full years in the league then it's an easier decision.

 

[EXTRAS]

Huberdeau - Barkov - Dadonov
Hoffman - Trocheck - Vatrano
Hawryluk - Borgstrom - Tippett
Greco - Sheahan - Sceviour

 

[GrumpyKelly]

I just agreed a trade with Calgary fans!

Trocheck + a 4th round pick for T.J. Brodie and Mark Jankowski.

Brodie solidifies our top 4D and is an ideal partner for Matheson. Janowski helps with the centre depth and slots into out 3rd line. Helping with the PK. Brodies caphit means we can still go for a goaltender plus Panarin.

We lose Trocheck which would be a big loss even if he is having a bad season for his standards. However, we sign Panarin in the offseason, and he plays with Borgstrom on the 2nd line.

Thoughts?

Brodie and Matheson would get lid up on a nightly basid. He's another offense first defenseman that we don't really need and has only a year left on the deal. Plus he has looked terrible the last two years when he wasn't paired with Giordano.

Very poor fit imo.

And yeah, Jankowski does nothing for me. Third line C at best.

 

[I am not exposed]

Brodie and Matheson would get lid up on a nightly basid. He's another offense first defenseman that we don't really need and has only a year left on the deal. Plus he has looked terrible the last two years when he wasn't paired with Giordano.

Very poor fit imo.

And yeah, Jankowski does nothing for me. Third line C at best.

I think you're underrating Brodie, but fair enough.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

I think you're underrating Brodie, but fair enough.

He needs a norris caliber defenseman next to him to look good. Id stay away.

Plus the contract status and offensive D, just not a fit. Rather go after trouba

 

[GrumpyKelly]

He needs a norris caliber defenseman next to him to look good. Id stay away.

Plus the contract status and offensive D, just not a fit. Rather go after trouba

And i was a fan of TJ until he got moved on the left side and played without Gio. He looked like junk. Matheson level decions defensively.

 

[Little Bobby Boo]

Trocheck's value lies a lot in his contract and his locker room presence. They love him.

He's not a 75 point player but he's also not a 30 point player.

 

[Ghoste]

Trocheck's value lies a lot in his contract and his locker room presence. They love him.

He's not a 75 point player but he's also not a 30 point player.

He also helps getting the best out of Sasha. Sasha was working way too much when Tro was out. His production rose when Tro came back and alleviated those heavy minutes. (Obviously Huby helps a ton as well)

-ghoste

 

[BeezKnees]

There’s a new Athletic article regarding our goaltending. Just wanted to share some takeaways:

• Tallon thought about calling up Monty much earlier in the year but didn’t want to put him in a bad situation and hurt his development
• Monty’s performance has “opened our eyes” but they still want to develop him for the longterm and Tallon noted most goalies don’t breakout as starters til 26 years old.
• Monty will NOT start in FL next year no matter how well he plays down the stretch. Plan is still to start in Springfield but they’re leaving it open that if he has a great offseason, he can earn the backup role. Monty knows and understands that plan. Says it would be really hard to go back to the AHL knowing he’s capable of playing in the NHL, but knows it’s better for his long term dev. and will continue to work hard to get back to the Panthers.
• Luongo said he is going to decide about retirement in the offseason. Said this bad year was due to both injuries and mentally losing confidence in himself for a long stretch. But feels back to normal now. Said he will listen to team feedback as well and let them have a say in the decision.

 

[RainingRats]

There’s a new Athletic article regarding our goaltending. Just wanted to share some takeaways:

• Tallon thought about calling up Monty much earlier in the year but didn’t want to put him in a bad situation and hurt his development
• Monty’s performance has “opened our eyes” but they still want to develop him for the longterm and Tallon noted most goalies don’t breakout as starters til 26 years old.
• Monty will NOT start in FL next year no matter how well he plays down the stretch. Plan is still to start in Springfield but they’re leaving it open that if he has a great offseason, he can earn the backup role. Monty knows and understands that plan. Says it would be really hard to go back to the AHL knowing he’s capable of playing in the NHL, but knows it’s better for his long term dev. and will continue to work hard to get back to the Panthers.
• Luongo said he is going to decide about retirement in the offseason. Said this bad year was due to both injuries and mentally losing confidence in himself for a long stretch. But feels back to normal now. Said he will listen to team feedback as well and let them have a say in the decision.

You really have to question Tallon’s thought process here. Calling up Monty for a game or two to see how he would do would not have a negative effect on his development. That’s crazy. There will never be a perfect time to call him up. If he performs poorly you send him back down. If he can’t handle a little adversity, he’s not cut out to be an NHL goalie. And It’s certainly not worth the risk of letting the season slip away. No chance Monty’s (short term)development is more important than trying to save the season. Many talk about wanting Boughner gone. Tallon single handidly ruined this season with his poor goaltending decisions and he’s responsible for Boughner.

Monty shouldn’t be crowned starter but he is developing for the long term by playing in the NHL. He should be far and away the favorite for the backup next season if his play continues for the rest of this season and in pre-season

Luongo needs to retire. He’ll have injuries again next year. We need to upgrade Reimer

 

[CHGoalie27]

There’s a new Athletic article regarding our goaltending. Just wanted to share some takeaways:

• Tallon thought about calling up Monty much earlier in the year but didn’t want to put him in a bad situation and hurt his development
• Monty’s performance has “opened our eyes” but they still want to develop him for the longterm and Tallon noted most goalies don’t breakout as starters til 26 years old.
• Monty will NOT start in FL next year no matter how well he plays down the stretch. Plan is still to start in Springfield but they’re leaving it open that if he has a great offseason, he can earn the backup role. Monty knows and understands that plan. Says it would be really hard to go back to the AHL knowing he’s capable of playing in the NHL, but knows it’s better for his long term dev. and will continue to work hard to get back to the Panthers.
• Luongo said he is going to decide about retirement in the offseason. Said this bad year was due to both injuries and mentally losing confidence in himself for a long stretch. But feels back to normal now. Said he will listen to team feedback as well and let them have a say in the decision.

What the f*** man.

They want me to renew?

Let me know when they make a right f***ing decision....won't start in FL no matter what? ..f*** right off.

 

[KW]

You really have to question Tallon’s thought process here. Calling up Monty for a game or two to see how he would do would not have a negative effect on his development. That’s crazy. There will never be a perfect time to call him up. If he performs poorly you send him back down. If he can’t handle a little adversity, he’s not cut out to be an NHL goalie. And It’s certainly not worth the risk of letting the season slip away. No chance Monty’s (short term)development is more important than trying to save the season. Many talk about wanting Boughner gone. Tallon single handidly ruined this season with his poor goaltending decisions and he’s responsible for Boughner.

Monty shouldn’t be crowned starter but he is developing for the long term by playing in the NHL. He should be far and away the favorite for the backup next season if his play continues for the rest of this season and in pre-season

Luongo needs to retire. He’ll have injuries again next year. We need to upgrade Reimer

It’s never been an either-or recommendation regarding Tallon and Boog. My first choice all along has been to give them both the Uber. Tallon seems to be unmovable lately, thus more focus on Boog and the other coaches.

The real problem is that incompetence begins at the very top and spreads from there. That’s really the root of it all.

 

[BeezKnees]

Don’t understand the Tallon hatred. The way we were playing at the end of last year, everyone thought our roster was good enough coming into this year, including goaltending.How exactly do you fix Reimer and Lu playing terribly midseason? Which one is easy to trade? Or do we call up Monty prematurely and throw him into our dumpster fire and hope rather than trusting the vets to turn it around?

True he did choose Boughner but it wasn’t his decision to get rid of Gallant in the first place. And at the time, our options were super limited. If I recall, people were hoping for Housley, including me. But he’s not exactly tearing it up in Buffalo. And if you think he should’ve fired Boughner by now, ok fine. After 1.5 years. And hire someone to be our, what, 6th coach in 6 seasons? Promote Capuano or Mcfarland? Kidnap Quenneville who’s made it clear he’s taking it until the offseason?

What other criticisms are there for Tallon? f***ing up the expansion draft (true, he did). But more than made up for it. I’m ok with Dadonov and Hoffman over Marchessault and Smith. He also made a great secondary scoring addition with vatrano.

He’s not happy with this year. Cleared the cap space. Vows to spend to fix the goaltending and upgrade D. Push hard for Panarin. What else do you want from him? He’s doing fine.

 

[RainingRats]

Don’t understand the Tallon hatred. The way we were playing at the end of last year, everyone thought our roster was good enough coming into this year, including goaltending.How exactly do you fix Reimer and Lu playing terribly midseason? Which one is easy to trade? Or do we call up Monty prematurely and throw him into our dumpster fire and hope rather than trusting the vets to turn it around?

True he did choose Boughner but it wasn’t his decision to get rid of Gallant in the first place. And at the time, our options were super limited. If I recall, people were hoping for Housley, including me. But he’s not exactly tearing it up in Buffalo. And if you think he should’ve fired Boughner by now, ok fine. After 1.5 years. And hire someone to be our, what, 6th coach in 6 seasons? Promote Capuano or Mcfarland? Kidnap Quenneville who’s made it clear he’s taking it until the offseason?

What other criticisms are there for Tallon? ****ing up the expansion draft (true, he did). But more than made up for it. I’m ok with Dadonov and Hoffman over Marchessault and Smith. He also made a great secondary scoring addition with vatrano.

Goaltending was a concern two seasons ago. Almost everyone knew Luo’s game would start to decline. Reimer wasn’t ever going to be good enough to be a starter.

Goaltending didn’t get bad mid season. It was bad from the almost the beginning of the season

I can’t find the thread but I listed a ton of reasons why Tallon should be fired. If I can find it I’ll share

 

[BeezKnees]

Goaltending was a concern two seasons ago. Almost everyone knew Luo’s game would start to decline. Reimer wasn’t ever going to be good enough to be a starter.

Goaltending didn’t get bad mid season. It was bad from the almost the beginning of the season

I can’t find the thread but I listed a ton of reasons why Tallon should be fired. If I can find it I’ll share

Ok but what do you do? He didn’t sign Reimer, Rowe did. And reimer was tearing it up at the end of last year. But anyway, what does he do? Buy out Reimer? Trade him? No one wants his contract either. Aquire a 3rd goalie? Throw Monty into the fire?

 

[FrolikFan67]

Luongo just thinks this bad season was due to injuries and a dip in confidence? Yea, I’m sure next year will totally be better...

I think he can do decent as a backup not seeing too many starts (if we sign bob), but cap wise it’d be much better to just retire and let Monty be the backup. Performance would be better with Monty and cheaper. Plus there’s no reason to play for 1.6mil at 40yrs old and breaking down

 

[RainingRats]

Ok but what do you do? He didn’t sign Reimer, Rowe did. And reimer was tearing it up at the end of last year. But anyway, what does he do? Buy out Reimer? Trade him? No one wants his contract either. Aquire a 3rd goalie? Throw Monty into the fire?

Try Monty, yes. Philly and St Louis did this and it improved their goalie situation substantially

You’ve got to do something or you waste the season

 

[BeezKnees]

Try Monty, yes. Philly and St Louis did this and it improved their goalie situation substantially

You’ve got to do something or you waste the season

It’s the right answer in hindsight but Monty wasn’t putting up much better numbers than Lu or Reimer and he was in the AHL. There was no reason to believe he’d save our season. I’m super happy he’s been successful with the big club and I was one of the first posters to say we should call him up to see what we have (after it was pretty clear we weren’t making the playoffs). But to throw him in midseason when we weren’t playing well and were desperate? Rather than relying on the vets to step up and play like average NHL goalies? Idk man. I wish we had tried Monty too but only in hindsight. I dont think it was reasonable at that time.

 

[RainingRats]

It’s the right answer in hindsight but Monty wasn’t putting up much better numbers than Lu or Reimer and he was in the AHL. There was no reason to believe he’d save our season. I’m super happy he’s been successful with the big club and I was one of the first posters to say we should call him up to see what we have (after it was pretty clear we weren’t making the playoffs). But to throw him in midseason when we weren’t playing well and were desperate? Rather than relying on the vets to step up and play like average NHL goalies? Idk man. I wish we had tried Monty too but only in hindsight. I dont think it was reasonable at that time.

It’s not the right answer in hindsight. It was obvious back in December (check the thread I tagged you in) to start Monty for a couple games. Doesn’t matter what you think he could do, you play him and see.

 

[BeezKnees]

It’s not the right answer in hindsight. It was obvious back in December (check the thread I tagged you in) to start Monty for a couple games. Doesn’t matter what you think he could do, you play him and see.

Just read it. You were right— you brought up a lot of valid points and had great forsight about our issues. I do think Tallon has done a lot of good things too though and he’s good enough. He admits those issues you mentioned back then (upgrades needed on D and goalie, league transitioning from heavy to speed) and said he’s going to fix them. I agree tbis is his last shot. If we don’t turn it around by next year with those changes he should be fired.

 

[FrolikFan67]

So Luongo just got a new mask? Makes sense......

 

[BeezKnees]

So Luongo just got a new mask? Makes sense......

It looks just like the old mask too. Just red stripe instead of blue

 

[KW]

Ultimately, the owners are to blame. They hire the GM and they determine the general expectations. If they don’t establish the right kind of culture of success, the right goals, the winning attitudes, then they fail. And we have failed.

It’s especially a shame and a waste because no team has an infinite window. Wasting one year is like throwing away a third or a quarter of your capital to a dead end investment.

A team that keeps missing playoffs like we do has serious problems. They are not fixed with a piece here or there. I know the signs are clear, DT and Boog will have one more chance next season. But if the owners care even a bit about becoming a good franchise, the preparation for next season must be thorough, diligent, extensive, with the highest expectations for all players. Ekblad must learn to skate. Matheson must stop having panic attacks. Several forwards must get faster. Borg must get stronger. Tallon must get a goalie. Tallon must not trade Hoff. Tippett must show up to camp in the best shape of his life. Boog must learn how to prepare the team for every game. Jackass should leave but if he doesn’t, that old dog has got to learn new defensive tricks.

And the owners really really need to start giving a shit about the customers they use to get their winnings.

 

[RogerRoger]

It’s the right answer in hindsight but Monty wasn’t putting up much better numbers than Lu or Reimer and he was in the AHL. There was no reason to believe he’d save our season. I’m super happy he’s been successful with the big club and I was one of the first posters to say we should call him up to see what we have (after it was pretty clear we weren’t making the playoffs). But to throw him in midseason when we weren’t playing well and were desperate? Rather than relying on the vets to step up and play like average NHL goalies? Idk man. I wish we had tried Monty too but only in hindsight. I dont think it was reasonable at that time.

Yes, he was putting better numbers. He was above .911SV% until about January. That's why he went to the All-Star, after that his numbers took a nose dive.
Tallon had 2 choices if he was unable to trade for an upgrade. Either stay put and hope that the vets turn it around or call Monty up and hope that the young guy shows up good. Either way, it's hoping for a favorable outcome but one of those is being active and potentially send a message that you are trying what you can to improve the team. The other one is passive and can send the message that you have thrown the towel on the season.