Who's (more) responsible for this mess? (Poll included)

[The Jones Zone]

whether Torts is gone tomorrow or after the season, Larson needs to have his bags packed too

Shaw's future depends on who they hire to replace Torts

 

[majormajor]

whether Torts is gone tomorrow or after the season, Larson needs to have his bags packed too

Shaw's future depends on who they hire to replace Torts

This stuff cracks me up.

We don't know enough about the job performance of the assistant coaches to make comments like that.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Some of you all better be changing how you voted after tonight

Yeah, Jarmo's team he assembled was given a 3 goal lead with 10 minutes left and couldn't win.

 

[majormajor]

Torts suddenly pulling ahead in the poll, interesting.

That's about the only entertainment I'll be getting tonight.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Here's a poll. In a game between this team right now, and the 2012-13 team at the beginning of the season, who wins?

The franchise has gotten more consistently respectable among the hockey media in the eight full seasons since the GM switch. But has it actually progressed to any significant extent, other than having some bigger names on the roster? It's still only made it to the second round a single time. Every RFA in who's been re-signed has wanted traded in the aftermath of negotiations, which certainly bodes well for Laine and Texier after this season. The Vezina-winning goalie nursed a grudge and left after the GM publicly questioned his mental toughness. That's not even going further back into the pattern of giving up assets and leverage to escape self-inflicted wounds over the years.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Here's a poll. In a game between this team right now, and the 2012-13 team at the beginning of the season, who wins?

The franchise has gotten more consistently respectable among the hockey media in the eight full seasons since the GM switch. But has it actually progressed to any significant extent, other than having some bigger names on the roster? It's still only made it to the second round a single time. Every RFA in who's been re-signed has wanted traded in the aftermath of negotiations, which certainly bodes well for Laine and Texier after this season. The Vezina-winning goalie nursed a grudge and left after the GM publicly questioned his mental toughness. That's not even going further back into the pattern of giving up assets and leverage to escape self-inflicted wounds over the years.

Snore.

 

[Forepar]

Here's a poll. In a game between this team right now, and the 2012-13 team at the beginning of the season, who wins?

The franchise has gotten more consistently respectable among the hockey media in the eight full seasons since the GM switch. But has it actually progressed to any significant extent, other than having some bigger names on the roster? It's still only made it to the second round a single time. Every RFA in who's been re-signed has wanted traded in the aftermath of negotiations, which certainly bodes well for Laine and Texier after this season. The Vezina-winning goalie nursed a grudge and left after the GM publicly questioned his mental toughness. That's not even going further back into the pattern of giving up assets and leverage to escape self-inflicted wounds over the years.

This season is a train wreck, but 4 straight PO appearances and accountability on the ice show me significant improvement since 2012-13.
I was a huge fan of Bob - not at $10M x 8 . Florida can have him for that (and they do). Not because I don't think Bob is a good goalie but because no goalie is worth $10M - not when you have competent (or at least solidly developing) goalies at combined salary of $4-6M.
Not every RFA has wanted traded. Cam was at one time an RFA; many other current players have stayed - some have not, as is the case with most teams. We get focused on the PLD situation, add Anderson (or Johansen) to the mix, and voila, JK doesn't know how to handle RFA's, or only knows how to piss them off to the point they don't want to be here. I don't buy that. JK has made mistakes, all GMs do. This gnashing of teeth this year is a result of a) PLD train wreck (PLD gets the blame); b) paying the price now for going for it 2 seasons ago (if they'd have won the SC, many would still be complaining!); and c) mismatch of young talent with Torts style. Torts could get them there, but it will take a few years - and that is just too long to wait for most (including me).

 

[EspenK]

I miss the verb to be. I need hugged.

 

[Jyrki]

The roster isn't that good but Jarmo has tried plenty. To what extent can he be blamed for the likes of Duchene and Panarin walking, or PLD wanting to live out his superstar fantasies up North? He clearly aims for the top but there's nothing he can do if star players decide Columbus isn't a worthy town.

And Tortorella has been good with making the roster work, but this season the wheels have fallen off. And he's not a coach that can stay in good graces when the team is not performing. Same reason why Darryl Sutter gets the boot quickly after he stops being a playoffs contender.

I'd imagine Torts needs to be the sacrificial lamb, but Jarmo needs to assess whether Domi and Laine actually have any intention to stay. No point in shuffling chairs before the lineup goes through substantial changes yet again.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Would Torts have benched Wayne Gretzky for not playing his way? If you have to even think about that then I think you have your answer.

 

[Monk]

Would Torts have benched Wayne Gretzky for not playing his way? If you have to even think about that then I think you have your answer.

Like if he gave such a poor effort that he cost the team games? Yeah, he probably would.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Like if he gave such a poor effort that he cost the team games? Yeah, he probably would.

He did this stuff with so many Rangers. Gaborik, Nash, Kreider, Zuccarello, etc. I remember when Kreider and Zooks would score on you guys Torts would have steam coming out of his ears on your bench. Torts does not want star players to be the story. He wants to be the story. That is why he prefers a guy like Cally to a guy like Brett Hull in my opinion. With the Rangers the organization said he would be back after a playoff loss. 5 days later he was gone. The Rangers players revolted in the exit interviews. That was after the 2013 season. In 2014 with basically the same Rangers team they made the cup finals.

 

[Monk]

He did this stuff with so many Rangers. Gaborik, Nash, Kreider, Zuccarello, etc. I remember when Kreider and Zooks would score on you guys Torts would have steam coming out of his ears on your bench. Torts does not want star players to be the story. He wants to be the story. That is why he prefers a guy like Cally to a guy like Brett Hull in my opinion. With the Rangers the organization said he would be back after a playoff loss. 5 days later he was gone. The Rangers players revolted in the exit interviews. That was after the 2013 season. In 2014 with basically the same Rangers team they made the cup finals.

2021 Torts isn't the same as 2013 Torts, as much as everyone wants him to be.

 

[NickyFotiu]

2021 Torts isn't the same as 2013 Torts, as much as everyone wants him to be.

That may be true overall but some things look very similar.

 

[Monk]

That may be true overall but some things look very similar.

Then I look forward to next year's cup finals

 

[NickyFotiu]

Then I look forward to next year's cup finals

LOL haha. You may need a new coach then and to keep star players like Laine. The key for gifted offensive guys like Laine is to maximize their offense while minimizing their defensive vulnerability. Its not to turn them in to Jesper Fast. As a hockey fan when i see a guy Laine's size with his hands and his shots I'm amazed. I know he is not the easiest guy to deal with but natural goal scorers are rare. That guy can fall out of bed and score 30-40 goals plus in a full season.

 

[EDM]

Porty's article in today's Athletic is dispositive of this issue. He reports that the CBJ are the ONLY team in the NHL that does not have one of their own first round draft picks playing in their Top Six. Do you hear that ? WE ARE THE ONLY TEAM IN THE NHL THAT DOES NOT HAVE ONE OF OUR OWN FIRST ROUND PICKS PLAYING IN THE TOP SIX.

This is a testament to the putrid job that Jarmo has done constructing this team. Other than PLDouche, here are Jarmo's other first round forward picks: Wennberg, Dano, Rychel, Milano. Foudy and Chinakov. This says it all. It also explains why Jarmo keeps Torts because Torts is the only coach who can make a playoff team out of the shit sandwich that is Jarmo's draft record. He also points out that while Texiera is considered to be someone who has established the foundation for an NHL career and Bemstrum is perceived as struggling to prove he belongs in the NHL, they actually have virtually identical career stats.

This explains why Jarmo sticks with Torts, because Torts is the only coach who can make this trash heap competitive. It also suggests the difficulty we could have in our search for a new HC: any well qualified coach would recognize that this is a loser of a roster and look elsewhere for his next opportunity. The tragedy, of course, is that since Davison left we do not have any qualified personnel in the front office who can recognize had bad Jarmo's tenure has been.

The only team in the NHL without a single original first rounder in its Top Six. In a nutshell this shows that the problem is JARMO.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Porty's article in today's Athletic is dispositive of this issue. He reports that the CBJ are the ONLY team in the NHL that does not have one of their own first round draft picks playing in their Top Six. Do you hear that ? WE ARE THE ONLY TEAM IN THE NHL THAT DOES NOT HAVE ONE OF OUR OWN FIRST ROUND PICKS PLAYING IN THE TOP SIX.

This is a testament to the putrid job that Jarmo has done constructing this team. Other than PLDouche, here are Jarmo's other first round forward picks: Wennberg, Dano, Rychel, Milano. Foudy and Chinakov. This says it all. It also explains why Jarmo keeps Torts because Torts is the only coach who can make a playoff team out of the shit sandwich that is Jarmo's draft record. He also points out that while Texiera is considered to be someone who has established the foundation for an NHL career and Bemstrum is perceived as struggling to prove he belongs in the NHL, they actually have virtually identical career stats.

This explains why Jarmo sticks with Torts, because Torts is the only coach who can make this trash heap competitive. It also suggests the difficulty we could have in our search for a new HC: any well qualified coach would recognize that this is a loser of a roster and look elsewhere for his next opportunity. The tragedy, of course, is that since Davison left we do not have any qualified personnel in the front office who can recognize had bad Jarmo's tenure has been.

The only team in the NHL without a single original first rounder in its Top Six. In a nutshell this shows that the problem is JARMO.

That's a damning piece of information. The team does have draft picks among its top 6 (2 or 3 depending), though, and a first rounder on its top pair. And both NHL goalies are draft picks.

I realize not all of those picks I used to provide contact are Jarmo's - but that distinction was not made for other franchises.

Also context regarding PLD forcing Jarmo's hand is required for the assertion.

I'm not disputing it - it's bad. Real bad. But it's a statement offered without context where there is context.

 

[EDM]

DSL, it speaks for itself. It makes Jarmo's failure to keep PLDouche on the team even more damning. The problem is laid bare with that information.

 

[EDM]

What I think is important, for context purposes, is that it explains why Torts has coached the way he has coached. Very little offensive talent to work with.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

DSL, it speaks for itself. It makes Jarmo's failure to keep PLDouche on the team even more damning. The problem is laid bare with that information.

It speaks for itself, yes. I allowed that - agreed with it, even. But it only says so much. The context says more things. You also seem to be suggesting that it's Jarmo's fault PLD asked out. Your position might also be extrapolated to suggest you believe the team would be better right now had Jarmo not traded PLD.

 

[Monk]

Your position might also be extrapolated to suggest you believe the team would be better right now had Jarmo not traded PLD.

Or Johansen.

 

[Monk]

DSL, it speaks for itself. It makes Jarmo's failure to keep PLDouche on the team even more damning. The problem is laid bare with that information.

Unless of course Torts is the reason Jarmo was unable to keep PLD, the reason Milano couldn't cut it, the reason Wennberg never lived up, etc etc. As many have suggested.

The reality is we have so little information I don't think one can actually answer the question in this poll without a ton of guesswork/hearsay/etc

 

[EDM]

We are the ONLY team in the NHL without a home grown first round pick in its top six. Period. All your other speculation does not change the fact that other teams use the draft to build up their offense. Jarmo has not done that. Period.

 

[Monk]

We are the ONLY team in the NHL without a home grown first round pick in its top six. Period. All your other speculation does not change the fact that other teams use the draft to build up their offense. Jarmo has not done that. Period.

Assuming that's true, then there are also a bunch of teams worse than the Jackets who do have home-grown first round draft picks playing in their top 6. Doesn't seem to prove anything.