Who's (more) responsible for this mess? (Poll included)

[Byrral]

Jarmo has had an up and down term(s) as the CBJ GM. Some of his moves have been poor and some have been great. Some have been self induced and some have been forced upon him. Lately he's made moves, some on the fly, to try to improve the team.

Torts, purely from just his systems standpoint, has simply not changed whatsoever since the day he walked in the door.

Jarmo doesn't get high marks from me especially with the whole "Panarin...all in" fiasco. I didn't like it then and I hate it worse now.

But you all know I think it's time for Torts to go.

 

[EspenK]

And another thing, I can't stand this best player available and you don't draft for need bs. This past draft we took a guy who no other team had ranked as high. If I remember correctly there was one other team who supposedly had Chinkakov as a pick. By taking him we passed on 3 guys who have the potential to be a top 6 C. What we may wind up with is another right winger.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

His trades for Duchene and Dzingle will cost the team for years. A first rounder and 2 second rounders for players who were not essential in beating Tampa.

I think Jarmo has a deep desire to build the best NHL team with the least amount of North American players. 10 of his last 12 draft picks (top 3 picked in the past 4 drafts) have been from overseas. His euro-centric focus is not paying dividends. In any case, his mediocrity in drafting should be enough to show him the door independent of my stated view on his player preferences. Take a look at the link-it's not pretty.

Usually I really like your posts, and in general I agreed with most of your post. Especially calling out Jarmo on his RFA handling.

But boy do these two points miss the mark. One is just my opinion and one pisses me off.

Firstly, I'm not going to argue that the Dzingel deal was a disaster. It was. Trading two seconds for him was incredibly dumb and I said it at the time (I wanted Zuccarrello, who we ended up targeting in UFA that summer anyway. also I left out Duclair on purpose). However, Duchene was not only essential to beating Tampa he was a game changer. Other than Panarin, he was our best forward in that series. You know who our first line center was in that series (and the Boston one)? It was Duchene. He had 10 points in 10 postseason games. He had 7 of those points against Tampa. Not essential? Duchene was a beast in that series.

Secondly, the bolded is just disgusting. You have to be kidding me. The guy got blasted by his native media for picking PLD over Puljujarvi. He drafted Werenski over Rantanen. He drafted Sonny Milano and Andrew Peeke in the same draft. He drafted the legend of Ryan Collins. I like how your "stat" is only covering three drafts and conveniently fit your claims. When the middle of his tenure was almost all NA.

He extended/signed Cam Atkinson, Calvert, Seth Jones, Nick Foligno, Dubinsky, Nathan Horton, Boone Jenner, and kept Jack Johnson (and attempted to sign him). There are literally so many examples that say otherwise.

He's not Euro centric at all. How many times has he said he doesn't look at the passport? Criticize him all you want (and its valid) for messing up, making the wrong pick, or being too hard ass hard line with players, but this is a bad portion of an otherwise very good post. Come on now.

 

[puckthat]

Team has no chemistry since lines are switched game by game. Period by period. Heck shift by shift. And how can a powerplay be so bad year after year. Coaches have to create the system to get the most out of the talent. Can’t grind if the players aren’t grinders.

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

I don’t blame Torts or Jarmo.

jarmo pushed his chips into the middle and went for it. It cost assets, and multiple players walked away after failed runs at a championship. The PLD thing was plain bad luck. JARMO selected PLD when a bunch of pundits and fans said it was idiotic. The kid panned out, and Jarmo gets left holding the bag and has to trade him for pennies on the dollar instead of having his two way 1C because PLD turns out to be a bitch. Who the hell can predict that? Bad luck.

Now we can argue if “going for it” was the right move. And I’ll forever contend that it was. CBJ became relevant and are no longer seen as perennial bottom feeders. Thanks Jarmo for making it possible, and Torts for getting the guys to play the right way.

jarmo hasn’t gotten lottery luck yet and been given a generational talent. Nor has Torts in Columbus. Give both of these guys the assets gifted to Edmonton and I PROMISE you they’d be making deep playoff runs.

CBJ are in a rough spot. They had a couple arduous playoff runs where they beat top contenders then sputtered out. The top line talent left (both as UFAs and while under contract) and suddenly the talent coffers are a shell of what they were. Torts can’t turn chicken shit into chicken salad, and the lockerroom is struggling to play hard TortsBall knowing they lack the top end talent to make noise in the playoffs. Jarmo isn’t the type to go full rebuild (and probably wouldn’t be permitted to do so by ownership) so the team is stuck in treadmill mode until they get lottery luck

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

and if you have to choose, the answer is always Jarmo in these scenarios. He hired Torts and evaluates Torts’s performance continuously. Shit travels uphill

 

[Finner]

Jarmo has made huge moves but there are couple misses. Domi/Andy, well who knew that 72point guy is awful here? Murray for 5th rounder looks terrible now. Wennys deal in past. Koivus deal, well couldnt know he is going to retire. Showing endless trust for Torts was great but this season no. New coaching staff needs time and rest of the season its good way to start.

Getting Laine and Roslo thats +. Having two great goalies with that price, huge +.
Bjorks 5y deal is great.

Torts. That old faker, endless love to him but time to go. Team is messed up and that is the job what Torts should do, its not Jarmos fault that these players are lost on the ice and they have zero puck control or offensive ability. Defence is full of holes.

Sum sum cant blame neither. I blame both and shit goes down so Torts is out and Jarmo dont have so much space anymore.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Usually I really like your posts, and in general I agreed with most of your post. Especially calling out Jarmo on his RFA handling.

But boy do these two points miss the mark. One is just my opinion and one pisses me off.

Firstly, I'm not going to argue that the Dzingel deal was a disaster. It was. Trading two seconds for him was incredibly dumb and I said it at the time (I wanted Zuccarrello, who we ended up targeting in UFA that summer anyway. also I left out Duclair on purpose). However, Duchene was not only essential to beating Tampa he was a game changer. Other than Panarin, he was our best forward in that series. You know who our first line center was in that series (and the Boston one)? It was Duchene. He had 10 points in 10 postseason games. He had 7 of those points against Tampa. Not essential? Duchene was a beast in that series.

Secondly, the bolded is just disgusting. You have to be kidding me. The guy got blasted by his native media for picking PLD over Puljujarvi. He drafted Werenski over Rantanen. He drafted Sonny Milano and Andrew Peeke in the same draft. He drafted the legend of Ryan Collins. I like how your "stat" is only covering three drafts and conveniently fit your claims. When the middle of his tenure was almost all NA.

He extended/signed Cam Atkinson, Calvert, Seth Jones, Nick Foligno, Dubinsky, Nathan Horton, Boone Jenner, and kept Jack Johnson (and attempted to sign him). There are literally so many examples that say otherwise.

He's not Euro centric at all. How many times has he said he doesn't look at the passport? Criticize him all you want (and its valid) for messing up, making the wrong pick, or being too hard ass hard line with players, but this is a bad portion of an otherwise very good post. Come on now.

I also agree with a good portion of your posts and I appreciate your passion for the team.

The Jackets swept the Lightning. I don't think that the team would have lost without Duchene. But that could be wrong. Even if he was the deciding factor, the team won one series and the long term price (with a home run draft pick) could be considerably more than the benefit of a solitary series win.

As for the bolded part, it's not disgusting if true. I don't have an issue with people with ethnic pride. I just don't think that it's a good way to run a hockey team. BTW, it's 4 drafts not 3. His knowledge of Europe and Sweden in particular served him very well in the PLD/Pool Party choice. While what you said about Werenski is true, the picks of the past 4 drafts could tell a different story. Only Jarmo knows. I am merely speculating based on what I consider fairly solid evidence-and I could present more, but I'm not going to right now.

 

[EDM]

Jarmo. I have written my views about this issue in other threads so I will not take up space in this thread to explain my reasoning. But to me it is definitely Jarmo.

 

[Dumais]

See it as a "Right place at the right time" but the complete opposite of that. The playoff run a couple years ago. Panarin and Bob. Old core no longer the core. The system doesn't work with the team identity? whatever that is...

Things changing whether we like it or not. Nobody's fault.

 

[VT]

Our problems are centers. Before season Dubois, Domi, Koivu, Nash + Texier, Jenner. But something happened and PLD wanted to be traded. Koivu retired although I'm sure Jarmo wanted so that Mikko would help Tex. Max plays on the wing, probably because his defense play. So tell me how Jarmo can find a center so quickly especially if 1C is enough expensive?
And how Torts can built play if only Nash and maybe Jenner have center's skill? Tex and Jack learn it include FO, Max needs to improve defense. Again the important words - center's skill.

 

[Halberdier]

Torts has been great so far until this season. I don't think he deserves all the blame, but somehow even the old Jackets are no more committed to his play and so we can see how it's often falling apart. They aren't playing Torts hockey anymore. Probably they are fed up with that very taxing type of play?

I think Jarmo has done awesome job given all the circuimstances, but when everything works against you (Panarin, PLD, etc.) what are you going to do?

 

[majormajor]

Our problems are centers. Before season Dubois, Domi, Koivu, Nash + Texier, Jenner. But something happened and PLD wanted to be traded. Koivu retired although I'm sure Jarmo wanted so that Mikko would help Tex. Max plays on the wing, probably because his defense play. So tell me how Jarmo can find a center so quickly especially if 1C is enough expensive?
And how Torts can built play if only Nash and maybe Jenner have center's skill? Tex and Jack learn it include FO, Max needs to improve defense. Again the important words - center's skill.

This is pretty much it. Center ice is a disaster zone. It's the only disaster zone, the rest of the team is fine.

PLD forced his way out and Jarmo whiffed on Domi. Here we are.

 

[BluejacketNut]

It’s both, but leans heavily to JK. This is just not a very good lineup. When the NHL Network rated the prospect pools I think we were like 25th or worse, and I can’t argue it. We have no top line pedigree in the pipeline and the current roster isn’t very impressive either. We’ve lost 2 top players in Anderson and PLD under his watch,

Torts creates the most boring hockey to watch and JK had chosen to keep him. Watching the Jackets is like watching a beer league team

efit: after reading some comments on the all in I’ll edit this for mine. It was a terrible decision. First off, even with the moves we weren’t cup favorites that year. This in not a team that attracts free agents, the only way to build this team is through the draft, so to trade those high picks which equated to only a 1 round win was like doubling down on 14 with the dealer showing a face card. The only way that would have been a good idea would have been making it to at least the conference finals.

 

[LazyCircuits]

I vote Torts 80/20 over Jarmo because the talent we do have is underperforming.

Your offense struggles massively and your GM picks up the second best shot in the game. You juggle his linemates like they are hot potatoes and his goals dry up.

You have multiple players needing to learn how to centre so you keep moving them to the wing ad back.

Sure..Jarmo could acquire more centres but he did add Domi when we wanted one so at least he tried to make a move (albeit the wrong one).

edit - and Koivu (main weakness is C and offense = adds veteran C and playmaker C)

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

This voting is fascinating. Not surprising, though.

(Maybe a simpler question would have been to ask if the team is playing bad, or if it IS bad. But no...)

 

[puckie]

Team has no chemistry since lines are switched game by game. Period by period. Heck shift by shift. And how can a powerplay be so bad year after year. Coaches have to create the system to get the most out of the talent. Can’t grind if the players aren’t grinders.

I totally agree. Montreal had the same bad look, vibe, and chemistry when Claude Julien was still there this season. "My system work into it!" I also felt he played favorites. New coach is getting so much more out of the players and they seem to be actually be having fun playing. He switched the lines to what he thought would work best and kept them that way. The chemistry is so much better.

Torts is so old school and a grind coach. My system or the highway. Today's players do not want to play for that type of coach (example PLD). You need to take the talent you have and create a system around it that maximizes the players potential. I know someone who played for him in NYC and his numbers plummeted under Torts. Offensive threat and Torts is having them dive in front of shots. So many injuries. If I was a star player, I would sign with Columbus for a coach I wanted to play for. I would not come to Columbus for Torts or a coach who was not a players coach.

Jarmo is responsible because he has kept Torts as a coach and brought in players not suited to his system. He also signed Domi which is a round peg in a square hole with Torts.

 

[60ntheville]

Personally for me it’s majority on Jarmo. I get coach isn’t the easiest to play for and his message could have run stale but he’s not responsible for the center depth in this organization. Some of these trades or transactions have been rough imo. I’m sure that’s not a popular opinion on here. I’m just not sure what Coach is gonna win a bunch with Riley Nash as your most consistent centerman.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Personally for me it’s majority on Jarmo. I get coach isn’t the easiest to play for and his message could have run stale but he’s not responsible for the center depth in this organization. Some of these trades or transactions have been rough imo. I’m sure that’s not a popular opinion on here. I’m just not sure what Coach is gonna win a bunch with Riley Nash as your most consistent centerman.

You must not have checked the voting.

 

[Forepar]

I voted neither. As other posters have pointed out, CBJ problems are lack of centers. Dubois forcing his way out made a dumpster fire out of what was already at best a "tough but doable" C situation.
I put the blame on PLD. And on Domi.

I was on board with not giving Josh term; love the player but not going to be effective for 7-8 years. Domi has been utter failure, and Koivu retired. Neither of those are on Jarmo directly, and apparently not on Torts. We have NO C to bring along Tex, (or any other young C, including Domi and now Roslovic after the PLD trade), and everyone of the C's is playing at least 1 if not 2 lines above where they should be slotted as a result of PLD. PLD would not only have been stud 1C, he would have been great help to Tex as closer in age, and would have slotted everyone down at least a line.

Jarmo's return for PLD was as good as he could have gotten...but CBJ has no C to get the puck to the big piece (Laine) we got in exchange for PLD. Perhaps Laine is the key to getting the next C (trade or otherwise)....if we turn PLD into Laine/Roslovic, and thereafter turn Laine/Roslovic (+) into the next PLD, then we end up ok on the trade and better off at C. I don't think you grade the PLD/Laine/Roslovic trade until another season goes by and we see whether Laine improves 5x5 and what C Jarmo can acquire (whether using Laine or someone else as the main course).

 

[Forepar]

I voted neither. As other posters have pointed out, CBJ problems are lack of centers. Dubois forcing his way out made a dumpster fire out of what was already at best a "tough but doable" C situation.
I put the blame on PLD. And on Domi.

I was on board with not giving Josh term; love the player but not going to be effective for 7-8 years. Domi has been utter failure, and Koivu retired. Neither of those are on Jarmo directly, and apparently not on Torts. We have NO C to bring along Tex, (or any other young C, including Domi and now Roslovic after the PLD trade), and everyone of the C's is playing at least 1 if not 2 lines above where they should be slotted as a result of PLD. PLD would not only have been stud 1C, he would have been great help to Tex as closer in age, and would have slotted everyone down at least a line.

Jarmo's return for PLD was as good as he could have gotten...but CBJ has no C to get the puck to the big piece (Laine) we got in exchange for PLD. Perhaps Laine is the key to getting the next C (trade or otherwise)....if we turn PLD into Laine/Roslovic, and thereafter turn Laine/Roslovic (+) into the next PLD, then we end up ok on the trade and better off at C. I don't think you grade the PLD/Laine/Roslovic trade until another season goes by and we see whether Laine improves 5x5 and what C Jarmo can acquire (whether using Laine or someone else as the main course).

And yes, I'm on record as being one of those that would run through brick walls for Torts - if only I could skate (or still run)! Lol.

 

[majormajor]

Personally for me it’s majority on Jarmo. I get coach isn’t the easiest to play for and his message could have run stale but he’s not responsible for the center depth in this organization. Some of these trades or transactions have been rough imo. I’m sure that’s not a popular opinion on here. I’m just not sure what Coach is gonna win a bunch with Riley Nash as your most consistent centerman.

This is actually the most popular opinion on here.

 

[BullLund]

The puck ultimately stops at the GM. He has the keys to resolve issues with coaching or center depth. I'm a Finnish guy, but Jarmo hasn't been doing his job. Either he gives Tortorella a package he can succeed with, or changes the direction.

He hasn't been able to do either, this season.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Some of you all better be changing how you voted after tonight

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

The puck ultimately stops at the GM. He has the keys to resolve issues with coaching or center depth. I'm a Finnish guy, but Jarmo hasn't been doing his job. Either he gives Tortorella a package he can succeed with, or changes the direction.

He hasn't been able to do either, this season.

Or he can give John Tortorella a severance package.

Kansas University fired their football coach and AD in the same day. We should be able to can Torts and Jarmo and fly under the radar