Who's (more) responsible for this mess? (Poll included)

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Jarmo always seems too optimistic in his view of how things will work and tends to act like he's playing with house money.

While Jarmo has never shied away from trading players, he has also had confidence that a player will commit/sign/whatever or, lacking that, in some instances, confidence that keeping the player and chasing results is of more value than trading.

That’s expressing confidence is the organization. If that’s the same as ‘too optimistic’ then I agree with this.

 

[koteka]

What about a Catfish?

I can picture Johansen2Foligno being mad at himself for missing this joke.

 

[jacketsnation]

I like that our ahl team has Multiple guys around ppg. Lots we drafted! Do not tell me its because we play the same teams. So do the jackets and lot of our guys are having career lows!

Also have few khl guys looking good as well. This is just after affect of going all in for playoffs! We have all bad contracts off the books!

 

[DarkandStormy]

The team is 2-13-3 in their last 18 games. Both wins came against Tampa Bay.

 

[Forepar]

Good post......Just for the record, my vote was Torts. However, both are culpable. Each share a similar trait - stubbornness- and it’s to the detriment of the team. (Is this where we miss John Davidson maybe?) I’m not sure the players Jarmo obtained were a good fit for Torts, but I think he got the best deals possible under the circumstances. So my choice of Torts is because I don’t believe he’s flexible enough to adopt to the roster given to him and maximize what he had.

How was Torts, or any coach, to adapt any system to Domi being an absolute dumpster fire at all ends of the ice for the first half of the season, to Roslovic being a no-D centerman (he may get there eventually) compared to PLD's 2-way game, and to Laine's lack of ability to handle the puck other than to one-time a pass that must be placed in his bread basket? Those are 3 of our top 6 "pieces?" No wonder the suckitude has reached new lows.

You didn't say the following words, but they seem to be a summary of many posters - "I like our pieces..." Someone point me to what pieces on offense we should like.... Bjorkstrand, all day, hell yes. Atkinson, does not get a pass on a terrible year, but he had no C to get him the puck, and other than scoring short-handed goals, Cam needs a C. Laine - at best, the jury is out, but for me, I've seen enough. Ship him out.

Not saying Torts has done a great job - he hasn't and he admits it. But this roster of forwards is putrid; I don't see Laine as adding but instead subtracting from the quality of the forwards - and that thought just doesn't seem possible. But that's where I am at. So this is on JK, imo.

 

[Forepar]

I think the Outs far outweigh the Ins. The Ins have actually been subtractions by addition.
Basically the chemistry of the team was significantly altered.

Imo Anderson would still be here if Jarmo hadn't played "I've got the hammer" and signed him to a reasonable extension the first time around. Acquiring Domi for him seemed reasonable but he was on a downward track and again Jarmo should have been aware of his deficiencies from the defensive side.

PLD, who knows why he left, but his departure created a major gap at C, not only now but for the foreseeable future. Laine seemed like a good return at the time of the trade but in retrospect you have to wonder if Jarmo should have know (or at least suspected) from scouting reports (if he had any) that Laine just might not be a Torts player.

Majority of "blame" to Jarmo for the above.

Torts' line-o-matic didn't help anything in trying to achieve some sort of chemistry between linemates.

Lack of organizational depth definitely didn't help in trying to salvage the season. Blame solely on Jarmo for this.

The future? I'm in the years of suckitude camp. Maybe a new coach and hopefully some help from trading Domi and possibly Laine will buy some time until the Russian contingent arrives. And then lets hope those guys aren't rushed into service before they are ready a la Tex & Bemstrom.

I'm not a big fan of Torts' brand of hockey but to me the majority of the blame for the state of the Jackets is solely on Jarmo. And just imagine how badly he would be viewed if the Blackhawks hadn't gifted the jackets with two years of Panarin.

But your first point (bolded) carries the day.

 

[majormajor]

How was Torts, or any coach, to adapt any system to Domi being an absolute dumpster fire at all ends of the ice for the first half of the season, to Roslovic being a no-D centerman (he may get there eventually) compared to PLD's 2-way game, and to Laine's lack of ability to handle the puck other than to one-time a pass that must be placed in his bread basket? Those are 3 of our top 6 "pieces?" No wonder the suckitude has reached new lows.

You didn't say the following words, but they seem to be a summary of many posters - "I like our pieces..." Someone point me to what pieces on offense we should like.... Bjorkstrand, all day, hell yes. Atkinson, does not get a pass on a terrible year, but he had no C to get him the puck, and other than scoring short-handed goals, Cam needs a C. Laine - at best, the jury is out, but for me, I've seen enough. Ship him out.

Not saying Torts has done a great job - he hasn't and he admits it. But this roster of forwards is putrid; I don't see Laine as adding but instead subtracting from the quality of the forwards - and that thought just doesn't seem possible. But that's where I am at. So this is on JK, imo.

- I agree that Domi and Laine have been net negatives. It's largely on Jarmo. I can understand the gamble on Domi. He is capable of being a good top six C, and if you can get him for a soon-to-be UFA that you don't want to re-sign, then it can't hurt can it? Well it hurt, we had no choice but to go back to Domi game after game while we waited for him to start skating. He took the better part of the season and we were buried with him on the ice.

- Laine, as I was saying back when we were discussing PLD trade options, is a limited player. You can't just throw him on a line without a ton of support. To his credit, Jarmo passed on the Laine trade until he felt he really had to make a move. And to his credit he said no deal without Roslovic, who has been a joy to watch. I said at the time and I think it's easier to see with hindsight, it would be better to wait with PLD until you can get a top center. The fifth game of the season is a terrible time to make a trade because no team is shaking it up yet. Imagine how much easier it would be to make a bid on Eichel if we still had PLD to package.

-I'll discuss points about Torts and about our "pieces" in further comments. Can't write as much on mobile.

 

[majormajor]

@Forepar

Domi's play is his own fault, I can't blame Torts there. With Laine, I think it is a big mistake to push him towards a power forward role, he really should not be handling the puck often.

Our troubles go beyond those two though. Seth Jones' steep drop-off I think is partly a coaching issue. This is a player that can be elite all over the ice, and we're mostly using him as a glorified shot blocker. The general passivity of the team's approach has sort of become who the players are now. Our forecheckers aren't really forecheckers anymore, our elite D don't really step up anymore, and our new skilled players are just confused morons. Taken altogether it points to some combination of bad coaching and some absence of coaching.

 

[puckie]

I keep wondering if Domi and Laine would have done better under a different coach. Different motivation style and different system. Sometimes these types of players need positive vs. negative. I can speak from experience, no one performs their best always worrying about getting benched. Domi also mentioned it was a very different system than he was us to. After Max was under Julien, they should have known Torts would have been a bad fit.

A coach needs to flex his system around the players he has. Good coaches can motivate their players to be better. You can say they are pros, but in reality they are still human beings. Are you going to be your best if you are always worried about being reprimanded or fired?

The coaching style/system and player selection between coach and GM is not a match.

 

[MoeBartoli]

How was Torts, or any coach, to adapt any system to Domi being an absolute dumpster fire at all ends of the ice for the first half of the season, to Roslovic being a no-D centerman (he may get there eventually) compared to PLD's 2-way game, and to Laine's lack of ability to handle the puck other than to one-time a pass that must be placed in his bread basket? Those are 3 of our top 6 "pieces?" No wonder the suckitude has reached new lows.

You didn't say the following words, but they seem to be a summary of many posters - "I like our pieces..." Someone point me to what pieces on offense we should like.... Bjorkstrand, all day, hell yes. Atkinson, does not get a pass on a terrible year, but he had no C to get him the puck, and other than scoring short-handed goals, Cam needs a C. Laine - at best, the jury is out, but for me, I've seen enough. Ship him out.

Not saying Torts has done a great job - he hasn't and he admits it. But this roster of forwards is putrid; I don't see Laine as adding but instead subtracting from the quality of the forwards - and that thought just doesn't seem possible. But that's where I am at. So this is on JK, imo.

No disagreement that it wasn't an ideal lineup. And if Jarmo is the one culpable for the PLD and Anderson departures it’s easier to point to Jarmo. (However, I would have been reluctant to sign Andy to a long term deal). Still, under the circumstances I thought Jarmo made the best deals possible and he was more adaptable in getting some players than Torts was at coaching them. I feel even more convinced about this after Torts allegedly inferring he lost the room after PLD’s departure, a situation he inflamed with his comments.

 

[BluejacketNut]

Jarmo, this is his roster and I’m not very Impressed with it (even with the players that were traded).

 

[jonlin]

I cant help that I think Torts is most responsible for this. I`d imagine he had something to do with the departure of Panarin&Bob, also not resigning the other UFA:s. PLD mess, Koivu departing, Laine, Domi etc.
JK is also responsible, not letting Torts go earlier. I feel like without Torts, there wouldnt be so difficult to get players here? It cant be worse in Columbus than nothern Canada, can it?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I cant help that I think Torts is most responsible for this. I`d imagine he had something to do with the departure of Panarin&Bob, also not resigning the other UFA:s. PLD mess, Koivu departing, Laine, Domi etc.
JK is also responsible, not letting Torts go earlier. I feel like without Torts, there wouldnt be so difficult to get players here? It cant be worse in Columbus than nothern Canada, can it?

There are no NHL clubs in northern Canada.

 

[LJ7]

The one most responsible for this mess is time. Torts is a great coach who's time is up with this group, and the roster as constructed was at the natural end of its life span. All of the injuries last season were no coincidence. Also of note the 3 Jackets that were moved all are north of 30.

 

[db2011]

This team was positioned to not be able to adjust to the early season shakeup that PLD induced, I think. There was a fair amount of turnover and a lot of young guys but with COVID protocols, the necessary team bonding activities weren't possible. I think the combination of youth, new faces and no bonding hit the team hard, and it would be difficult for any coach/GM to overcome that, in my opinion.

But I love Torts and Jarmo both (though Jarmo sometimes plays ball too hard), so there's that. Read as: I'm compelled to think the team this year was a victim of circumstance.

I do miss Murray, though.

 

[EspenK]

From today's Athletic:

In keeping with the way the Jackets handled the pending unrestricted free agency of Artemi Panarin two years ago, Kekalainen told The Athletic on Thursday that he’s willing to keep Jones well into next season without an extension in place.
“We still have one year left on (Jones’) contract,” Kekalainen said. “We’re not going to let a player of that caliber go without doing everything in our toolbox to convince him to stay.
“I would do everything we can to get him to stay, which means fighting to the bitter end and hopefully getting the right result.”

Jarmo being Jarmo. He's winning the next poll. I know Jarmo lovers will say he is just posturing but I really believe him.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

From today's Athletic:

In keeping with the way the Jackets handled the pending unrestricted free agency of Artemi Panarin two years ago, Kekalainen told The Athletic on Thursday that he’s willing to keep Jones well into next season without an extension in place.
“We still have one year left on (Jones’) contract,” Kekalainen said. “We’re not going to let a player of that caliber go without doing everything in our toolbox to convince him to stay.
“I would do everything we can to get him to stay, which means fighting to the bitter end and hopefully getting the right result.”

Jarmo being Jarmo. He's winning the next poll. I know Jarmo lovers will say he is just posturing but I really believe him.

It would be just our luck if Seth incurred a season-ending injury before the trade deadline so that we'd get nothing for him if he decided to move on.

I'm not a fan of this strategy at all. If Seth leaves with no assets to show for it, Jarmo should be shown the door.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Jarmo being Jarmo. He's winning the next poll. I know Jarmo lovers will say he is just posturing but I really believe him.

Not really that compelling an argument. Someone could just say “Jarmo haters will say they believe him but he’s just posturing.”

 

[Jaxs]

Jarmo has to say he will keep him as long as it takes to convince Jones to sign here, even though he is posturing.

 

[LJ7]

What the hell else is he supposed to say? Using that quote as an indictment of Jarmo is just nonsense

 

[Viqsi]

As one of the options in this poll is no longer with the organization, and as the thread is now being hijacked for something that we already have a thread for, this one has run its course.