Speculation: Who will the Leafs draft at #4 ? Part IV

[Woll Smoth]

Doug could take a hit and get up.

From what we have seen from Marner, he missed multiple games on 2 occasions Gilmour got up from routinely.

Not all apples are the same. If you are going to us this logic.

I doubt you've seen any of Marner actually.

Your flawed arguments and terrible comparison make it obvious

 

[WTFMAN99]

i'm not going to lie. I really like him and it doesn't hurt that he's v. smart on the ice, as well. though i know a lot of people are diminishing the NCAA for development. so i dunno.

A lot of great players have went the NCAA route. I actually made a reply to someone putting down the NCAA route and listed off a lot of players who went that route.

Toews, Heatley and McDonagh are guys who played in the NCAA for example.

Hanifin had success as a 17 year old there after doing all the academic work to be eligible a year early for the NCAA. Definitely think that is a plus.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

My question would be: how much of that was the state of concussion awareness when Dougie played compared to now? A lot of players likely played through these things because no one had any real awareness of the dangers associated with these types of head injuries.

In the modern game if you take any impact to the head they'll pull you out of the game for at least a certain amount of time to examine you.

This is a major reason why I feel it's not entirely fair to judge players from yesteryear to players from the modern game when it comes to head injuries or general hits to the head.

That's not specifically directed towards you Interactif. You just happened to bring up a point that I think people should remember. It's a different world now in contact sports when it comes to blows to the head.

Are you saying Doug was concussed? There is no evidence of this. I do know he got up after every hit and played at a very high level for many years. I know I watched him during that time. Not all apples are created equal. He was a special player, a HOF player. Tough as nails, a freak of nature if you want to use that analogy. Very durable. One in a million.

 

[Daisy Jane]

are Marner's two hits on youtube? i'd like to see them

 

[Stand Witness]

are Marner's two hits on youtube? i'd like to see them

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/video/index/id/671cf421150fcd829189d8dc24bf4691

Take note that this is the whiplash injury. The other one I can't find even in the game highlights but I have seen it before.

Marchment had 3 checking to the head penalties in the regular season and another one for hitting Marner in the head.

EDIT: Found the 2nd one on vine

https://vine.co/v/OTeZOgHY0hH

The 2nd one isn't even debatable that it was a hockey play.

 

[Daisy Jane]

A lot of great players have went the NCAA route. I actually made a reply to someone putting down the NCAA route and listed off a lot of players who went that route.

Toews, Heatley and McDonagh are guys who played in the NCAA for example.

Hanifin had success as a 17 year old there after doing all the academic work to be eligible a year early for the NCAA. Definitely think that is a plus.

I know -that's why it's so weird when people keep dismissing it or put it down compared to the CHL. (this is why i blissfully like to be ignorant in this regard, and I can just appreciate the player that we drafted regardless if it's CHL/Europe/NCAA).

Hanifin is impressive for sure.

 

[MJ65]

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/video/index/id/671cf421150fcd829189d8dc24bf4691

Take note that this is the whiplash injury. The other one I can't find even in the game highlights but I have seen it before.

Marchment had 3 checking to the head penalties in the regular season and another one for hitting Marner in the head.

EDIT: Found the 2nd one on vine

https://vine.co/v/OTeZOgHY0hH

The 2nd one isn't even debatable that it was a hockey play.

That was cheap and no one could have avoided that hit and not getting injured

 

[Daisy Jane]

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/video/index/id/671cf421150fcd829189d8dc24bf4691

Take note that this is the whiplash injury. The other one I can't find even in the game highlights but I have seen it before.

Marchment had 3 checking to the head penalties in the regular season and another one for hitting Marner in the head.

EDIT: Found the 2nd one on vine

https://vine.co/v/OTeZOgHY0hH

The 2nd one isn't even debatable that it was a hockey play.

so wait? for three pages we're debating if Marner is capable of playing NHL hockey because of those two hits? I want the last 1/2 hour of my life back. seriously.

because that 2nd hit is basically this hit




and that Marchment hit was made when Marner was scoring and he was clocked in the head.

seriously. man. I was expecting something that you can at least have a debate about.

 

[Reddaye]

Are you saying Doug was concussed? There is no evidence of this. I do know he got up after every hit and played at a very high level for many years. I know I watched him during that time. Not all apples are created equal. He was a special player, a HOF player. Tough as nails, a freak of nature if you want to use that analogy. Very durable. One in a million.

I'm saying it's entirely possible he may have suffered injuries that went undiagnosed as many players in hockey, and other sports have since found out that they did. Concussions can range from mild to extreme. Who's to say he didn't suffer some dizziness for a little while following a particularly rough hit but didn't bother to mention it because that's not how things were done back then. I had a neighbour who was 58, extremely active and fit who died of a heart attack out of no where. Except most people believe it really wasn't out of no where, he was just too old school to mention any problems he may have had leading up to it.

This has nothing to do with how special a player Doug Gilmour was. Toughness isn't always a measure how impervious to damage you are. Often times it's how you can work through the damage you sustain without slowing down, or stopping without complaint.

That doesn't mean he ever was concussed. It just means that there's a real possibility that Dougie, or any number of players may have just brushed off minor concussions due to lack of awareness, and general desire to play through pain and other issues.

Are you trying to tell me it's not possible? I surely hope you're not.

 

[Stand Witness]

That was cheap and no one could have avoided that hit and not getting injured

Yup. Nothing he can do there.

so wait? for three pages we're debating if Marner is capable of playing NHL hockey because of those two hits? I want the last 1/2 hour of my life back. seriously.

because that 2nd hit is basically this hit




and that Marchment hit was made when Marner was scoring and he was clocked in the head.

seriously. man. I was expecting something that you can at least have a debate about.

Unfortunately I can't give you that 30 mins back

 

[Daisy Jane]

Yup. Nothing he can do there.

Unfortunately I can't give you that 30 mins back

but no, seriously. i don't know what i was expecting - but I was expecting to see.... something that You can really take the time and say "you know what... yeah, I can totally see/understand, why someone would have that thought." or. " those hits would be questionable based on his someone plays." You know. something you can debate.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Watched the clips.

I see no durability issues. No way to avoid either or an issue of him being a smaller player.

 

[Menzinger]

I watcj

i'm not going to lie. I really like him and it doesn't hurt that he's v. smart on the ice, as well. though i know a lot of people are diminishing the NCAA for development. so i dunno.

I watch a ton of NCAA hockey throughout the year, and I can tell you the NCAA's biggest critics hardly pay attention to it.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I watcj

I watch a ton of NCAA hockey throughout the year, and I can tell you the NCAA's biggest critics hardly pay attention to it.

that's what I am gathering.

I really hope that TSN shows more of it now they have nothing else to do hockey wise.

 

[MJ65]

Any comments on Canada Vs Russia, I think we completely dominated this final

This tournament is going to affect a lot of careers - especially Smith

 

[WTFMAN99]

Any comments on Canada Vs Russia, I think we completely dominated this final

This tournament is going to affect a lot of careers - especially Smith

Wrong thread for this.

No prospects in this tournament near the Leafs #4 pick. Eichel will be long gone lol.

 

[XxJammingxX]

THIS. THIS. THIS.

I want to give everyone a scenario this scenario:
1. Freshman A (2011-2012): 37 games, 9 goals, 8 assists = 17 points
2. Freshman B (2010-2011: 31 games, 4 goals, 10 assists = 14 points.

Freshman A is Tyler Biggs
Freshman B is Kevin Hayes

Difference -- Hayes played in college for 4 seasons. Biggs left.

Hanafin is obviously a league above Biggs. BUT. Lets keep Hanafin there as long as he wants. Definitely next year. Then we evaluate.

Id rather bring hanafin right from college to the big club when he is ready. Keep him there.

For Bigg's personally, the NCAA would have been the better route as at least he'd get an education if nothing works out. For the Leaf's though its a gamble. What's to say he doesn't want to sign here afterwards? Freshman B after all left the team he got drafted by (Chicago) and went to the Rangers.

I can see a lot of clubs trying to protect their assets by advising the prospects to go the CHL/AHL route.

 

[Menzinger]

Eric Lindros is a pretty good case study in how just having a big body won't protect you from injury.

that's what I am gathering.

I really hope that TSN shows more of it now they have nothing else to do hockey wise.

I hope so too. I think they will as well, particularly stuff like the Frozen Four, ect.

 

[Im Old Gregggg]

Awareness is more important than body size when it comes to durability and not being clocked with open ice hits, skate with ya head up! A lot of these guys with concussion problems and the ones who were prone to being on the receiving end of huge open ice hits have that problem in common, regardless of size....

 

[Knightnight]

That was cheap and no one could have avoided that hit and not getting injured

4

The one vs Oshawa, you can't hear only see. He did not have the puck all the way up the ice, the puck went out of play and whistle went. He got xchecked above the pants at full speed when the whistle had gone from behind. Now if not for Marners great balance and skating it could have been a broken neck. No player could have been aware that cheap shot was going to happen. It resulted in compression fracture in the elbow and facial lacerations. No concussion, which for the impact is showing his durability.

The second a blindside xcheck. It resulted in whiplash. Marner does get hit but not a lot. For a player who has the puck as much as he does and plays an aggressive game he again missed .05% of games played do to an injury. Mentalist you keep attacking Marner and I really don't see anyone backing you up. Even neutral posters are confused. Now I am sure Mess will jump on your bandwagon soon enough. I don't see anyone on here going after Strome the way you claim.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Are you saying Doug was concussed? There is no evidence of this. I do know he got up after every hit and played at a very high level for many years. I know I watched him during that time. Not all apples are created equal. He was a special player, a HOF player. Tough as nails, a freak of nature if you want to use that analogy. Very durable. One in a million.

"Doug Gilmour skates across the centre ice neutral zone looking back after passing the puck. A freight train heading east(alias Luke Richardson) hits Gilmour and he crumples to the ice. As Joe Bowen so aptly put it ""Doug Gilmour was seeing stars and he wasn""t even at the Academy Awards."" He had a concussion; the most common head injury in sports."


http://www.sportmedspecialists.com/sms-in-the-news/head-and-neck-articles

So yea, he has had concussions, and was hospitalized.

I swear, you just make up anything to grasp at straws while trying to support an absurd point of view.

Most people here are willing to discuss the positives of the 3 players, and how they will impact the team, you have a straight agenda. It's getting old, fast.

 

[Purity*]

This post resembles mud flung at the wall in hoping something sticks.

When you want to address Marner's ability to take a hit, I will respond. If you can make a case he will avoid hits like Kessel does, or he has the ability to absorb a hit and get up. Then make this point if you can. I simply say based on his missing multiple games due to hits he sustained this year, and due to the fact he plays without fear, there is a high risk he may be not durable enough to play in the NHL. We saw how Skinner has declined, Grabovski too. Little guys that play with heart that do not fear contact. How do we know Marner cannot help himself if put in a similar position? Fair questions for a scouting staff before making an important pick.

What it did was expose your painfully inconsistent logic with the standards that you set yourself for an "injury prone" player.

 

[MJ65]

I feel guilty of starting this and responding to Metalist post, but honestly we should not make this a war zone between Strome and Marner or a Strome vs Marner camp

I hope the management make the best decision that is best for the club and the organization, and wish all these upcoming stars a long and successful career

Lets only discuss the talent and the skill set and request every one to stay away from any negative and baseless comments

 

[Babcocks Marner]

so wait? for three pages we're debating if Marner is capable of playing NHL hockey because of those two hits? I want the last 1/2 hour of my life back. seriously.

because that 2nd hit is basically this hit




and that Marchment hit was made when Marner was scoring and he was clocked in the head.

seriously. man. I was expecting something that you can at least have a debate about.

I would say it's worse because of the speed Marner was going at. He is pretty lucky not to break his neck/back on that one.

When I played for the Marlies (AAA Marlboros, not AHL), I think 11yo, a kid was paralyzed in almost an exact play. He was lucky, as we heard after about 1-2 years, he got function back into his legs.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I feel guilty of starting this and responding to Metalist post, but honestly we should not make this a war zone between Strome and Marner or a Strome vs Marner camp

I hope the management make the best decision that is best for the club and the organization, and wish all these upcoming stars a long and successful career

Lets only discuss the talent and the skill set and request every one to stay away from any negative and baseless comments

Well that is the thing, basically besides a small few, who is making war?

Most of us can find things we love about all 3, sure we have a preference, but most people here can find the positives of whoever we choose, while others, are making up facts as they go along just to support a one-sided argument with ZERO percent chance of even looking at the other side in a positive light.

I am not a Strome fan at #4, but when somebody says he is crap in the playoffs, or he can't skate, or it's only "because of McDavid". I will jump to defend him, because it's simply not true.

So when a poster continuously posts false things, except a backlash. Doesn't matter who its about, expect it... I think some here CRAVE that attention. You know if you didn't post it, someone else was going to