Speculation: Who Should Detroit Pick at 4th? (poll closes 9/30)

[lilidk]

I'll trust Stevie Y on whoever he chooses until proven otherwise... Seems like like he is going to hit on Seider who was considered an outside of the box pick at 6

Trust #19 and #33... They will get the right player, I believe

18 or 23

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I don't want Rossi for the sole fact this board will be unbearable for the next 5 years

I’m starting to think it‘d be hilarious.

Every turnover or mistake would be amplified times 10. Bad pass? That’s because his vision didn’t have any room for growth compared to other prospects. His eyes were already 20/20.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Hes one of, if not the oldest player that will be drafted this year its obviously going to come up. But part of that is also that hes already physically mature so its unlikely to see as much growth there than other prospects. Perfetti is a little more than 3 months younger (not sure where youre getting 2 from) than Rossi but on top of that hes extremely immature physically so its not as big of a point of focus on people thinking his physical development may be closer to done

3 months you say, not 2? I’m sold.

Why is Perfetti extremely immature physically? He plays in the best junior league in the world and has had NHL aspirations I’d imagine. Is he not committed enough? Because I can tell you right now that this isn’t the 90s or even a decade ago - these kids have already been taught about nutrition and getting the most out of their bodies. So what’s the deal here?

 

[Ulysses31]

Draft Day is my my fav. day of the year. stoked like a kid waiting for xmas.

 

[Killerjas]

Draft Day is my my fav. day of the year. stoked like a kid waiting for xmas.

Yeah I know. I love the 2nd day of the draft, sitting at home here in Europe and the only way to know who drafts who is by mindlessly refreshing the Eliteprospects draft page.

Good times. The draft starts at 1 in the morning for us Europeans, let's hope there is a youtube stream or some sort of stream available.

 

[TCNorthstars]

for me (assuming top 3 are as predicted)
1. Raymond - this kid is a dynamic game breaking talent, we need the right shot too
2. Perfetti - Filthy mitts, High IQ, probably wont stay at C tho
3. Drysdale - having too many stud RHD is never a bad thing
4. Rossi - kids got heart and the motor to win every game
5. Askarov - Vasilevsky type goalie we need badly

also i need a new username...f*** the lottery

Yeah, try not to jinx us next year mmmmkay

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Yeah I know. I love the 2nd day of the draft, sitting at home here in Europe and the only way to know who drafts who is by mindlessly refreshing the Eliteprospects draft page.

Good times. The draft starts at 1 in the morning for us Europeans, let's hope there is a youtube stream or some sort of stream available.

Maybe we all should consider a discord room for draft day, would yield results quicker than an endless refresh.
If there is any interest I have no problem setting it up.

 

[DInTheB]

Maybe we all should consider a discord room for draft day, would yield results quicker than an endless refresh.
If there is any interest I have no problem setting it up.

Plus this site will crash

 

[ZDH]

Yeah I know. I love the 2nd day of the draft, sitting at home here in Europe and the only way to know who drafts who is by mindlessly refreshing the Eliteprospects draft page.

Good times. The draft starts at 1 in the morning for us Europeans, let's hope there is a youtube stream or some sort of stream available.

There definitely will be, find it online

 

[Frk It]

3 months you say, not 2? I’m sold.

Why is Perfetti extremely immature physically? He plays in the best junior league in the world and has had NHL aspirations I’d imagine. Is he not committed enough? Because I can tell you right now that this isn’t the 90s or even a decade ago - these kids have already been taught about nutrition and getting the most out of their bodies. So what’s the deal here?

Because at 17-18 you have a huge range with kids who are still developing or are already near the end of their development?

You have kids at 18 who look like they are 12 and kids who look like they are 30 (not saying either of them look 12 or 30). And their work ethic may have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Rossi weighs 185. I think that is the weight he will probably play around once he is developed. He can get faster/stronger from where he is, but I don’t know that his end result will be dramatically different from where he is.

Perfetti, at least to the eye, looks more raw physically. You would think he has more room to make gains in strength and skating compared to Rossi. But I am not sure what Perfetti weighs given we have no combine. I have seen anything from 5’11 and 175-185 lbs. So he may have at least 10-15 lbs more muscle to bring on which has more opportunity to make him look different as a hockey player.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I don't want Rossi for the sole fact this board will be unbearable for the next 5 years

That's precisely why I want him. I still think he's the most talented and best all around player at 4, but with how this board talks about him I'd pick him just for the lulz.

Seriously, some of the wings fans here talk about Rossi like he lied about his age and is really a 33 year old austrian midget bodybuilder ripping apart juniors. He's 5'9" and ranked a #4 to #7 pick in most mock drafts, and that's saying something when most guys his size go in the 2nd round or later.

EDIT: Also this; he's been working on nothing but his speed and explosiveness since March according to this article.

 

[deca guard]

im thinking yzerman believes in a big defense so not high on drysdale . mean while im thinking other teams are very high on him at 4 . adds up to a feasible trade scenario

 

[Hen Kolland]

That's precisely why I want him. I still think he's the most talented and best all around player at 4, but with how this board talks about him I'd pick him just for the lulz.

Seriously, some of the wings fans here talk about Rossi like he lied about his age and is really a 33 year old austrian midget bodybuilder ripping apart juniors. He's 5'9" and ranked a #4 to #7 pick in most mock drafts, and that's saying something when most guys his size go in the 2nd round or later.

EDIT: Also this; he's been working on nothing but his speed and explosiveness since March according to this article.

He is hardly the most talented player at 4. I don't know how many times this has to be said, if he was more talented in vacuum than players like Raymond and Perfetti, while being a lock center, and the best all around (defensive) player, he would not be available at 4th overall.

Okay, so he's more talented, his skating apparently is barely a minor concern, he's the strongest pound for pound player in the top ten, he's the most dedicated, the most complete, the most competitive. Apparently he's the just the best thing since sliced bread. The people who refuse to acknowledge any form of shortcoming in Rossi as a prospect are the ones with a warped perception, not the ones who are critical of him. You joke about how about people perceive him as this midget bodybuilder, but you basically talk about him as the surest thing at #4, with no hangups, like Lafreniere is the surest thing at #1.

Look, most people have the ability to compartmentalize their disagreement with a draft pick. Assuming the Wings go with Rossi in the draft, come December/January when Rossi is filling a middle 6 forward role in the NHL, there will not be this overwhelming shade thrown in his direction. The biggest detractors will be focusing on how Rossi improves the team, and shows signs of growth as a player. He will have dozens of fans on this site alone in all the people who didn't want him in the draft, and the ones who still hold a grudge against him can kick rocks.

 

[TheMule93]

recency bias but i go raymond at this point

 

[Killerjas]

Maybe we all should consider a discord room for draft day, would yield results quicker than an endless refresh.
If there is any interest I have no problem setting it up.

Love this idea, could be a great place to share links to streams and discuss the draft real time. Sign me up

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

That's precisely why I want him. I still think he's the most talented and best all around player at 4, but with how this board talks about him I'd pick him just for the lulz.

Seriously, some of the wings fans here talk about Rossi like he lied about his age and is really a 33 year old austrian midget bodybuilder ripping apart juniors. He's 5'9" and ranked a #4 to #7 pick in most mock drafts, and that's saying something when most guys his size go in the 2nd round or later.

EDIT: Also this; he's been working on nothing but his speed and explosiveness since March according to this article.

I think he will be a solid middle-six winger at the NHL level and will have a similar impact to a player like Mikael Granlund. He does a lot of things well and doesn't have any super massive weaknesses, but I still find just about everything about him overstated. I have watched 20+ full games of him and I still have not truly seen him beat a defender with his hand. I think he has good poise with the puck (and is an efficient distributor of it), but that people are misinterpreting this as high-end skill. There is zero question in my mind that Raymond and Perfetti have more pure skill with the puck than Rossi does. Similarly, his skating isn't god awful and he does a good job of consistently moving his feet. This causes people to really overstate his skating ability. Cognitively they look at his size, look as his production, don't see anything insanely wrong with his skating and conclude that he must be a good skater to be that good at his size. He will be a slightly above average NHL skater when all is said and done but will still have a 5'9" frame. Personally, I am not taking a truly undersized forward at 4 who is not an elite skater. That is what I value and that is where I draw the line.

As others have said, what I really can't understand is how Rossi became this infallible idol to his fans. I am a big Perfetti fan but even I will admit that there is a ton of risk associated with the kid. The Rossi true believers on the other hand think there is zero question that he will be able to do everything tomorrow in the NHL that he did last year in Ottawa. That just isn't very realistic in my book.

 

[newfy]

3 months you say, not 2? I’m sold.

Why is Perfetti extremely immature physically? He plays in the best junior league in the world and has had NHL aspirations I’d imagine. Is he not committed enough? Because I can tell you right now that this isn’t the 90s or even a decade ago - these kids have already been taught about nutrition and getting the most out of their bodies. So what’s the deal here?

Well for starters if we're going to have the discussion lets not make shit up. Its not a 2 month difference so whats the point of saying it in the first place?

Secondly, I guess we need to have this discussion again for the 100th time but lets do it. Theres this thing called puberty that people go through. At 18, people can be further developed physically than others largely based on that. Theres all kinds of reports that Perfetti is committed and hard working but that doesnt change the fact that he could be 3 years developmentally slower than Rossi based on when he hit puberty. Its not like you can just start working out at 12 years old and everyone gains the same amount of muscle or anything, its largely based on hormone production.

Do you think Ekblad and Marner were at the same point in their physical development on draft day? Definitely not, but that doesnt mean one doesnt work just as hard

 

[FMichael]

for me (assuming top 3 are as predicted)
1. Raymond - this kid is a dynamic game breaking talent, we need the right shot too
2. Perfetti - Filthy mitts, High IQ, probably wont stay at C tho
3. Drysdale - having too many stud RHD is never a bad thing
4. Rossi - kids got heart and the motor to win every game
5. Askarov - Vasilevsky type goalie we need badly

also i need a new username...f*** the lottery

If not at C - would he become a 'Mitch Marner' clone as an offensive minded point producing winger?

I can live with that.

 

[Tetsuo]

I think he will be a solid middle-six winger at the NHL level and will have a similar impact to a player like Mikael Granlund. He does a lot of things well and doesn't have any super massive weaknesses, but I still find just about everything about him overstated. I have watched 20+ full games of him and I still have not truly seen him beat a defender with his hand. I think he has good poise with the puck (and is an efficient distributor of it), but that people are misinterpreting this as high-end skill. There is zero question in my mind that Raymond and Perfetti have more pure skill with the puck than Rossi does. Similarly, his skating isn't god awful and he does a good job of consistently moving his feet. This causes people to really overstate his skating ability. Cognitively they look at his size, look as his production, don't see anything insanely wrong with his skating and conclude that he must be a good skater to be that good at his size. He will be a slightly above average NHL skater when all is said and done but will still have a 5'9" frame. Personally, I am not taking a truly undersized forward at 4 who is not an elite skater. That is what I value and that is where I draw the line.

As others have said, what I really can't understand is how Rossi became this infallible idol to his fans. I am a big Perfetti fan but even I will admit that there is a ton of risk associated with the kid. The Rossi true believers on the other hand think there is zero question that he will be able to do everything tomorrow in the NHL that he did last year in Ottawa. That just isn't very realistic in my book.

Bravo. You articulated exactly why I am not on the Rossi train. It's the combination of the lack of elite skating, lack of size and lack of elite skill that make me think he is going to top out as a useful middle-six utility Winger. He makes a lot of correct decisions with the puck but at this stage of his career he hasn't shown me anything on the ice that screams "Future NHL Star". I want a high-end player who will be in the conversation for top 10 at his position in the NHL with a 4th Overall pick. That is the minimum expectation for that caliber of pick, and anything less is a failure. If Rossi had Perfetti's hockey IQ or Raymond's hands this is a different conversation. He has good IQ and good hands for a player, I think he absolutely is a 1st round pick, but neither of them are as game-titlting as Perfetti or Raymond.

To take Raymond as an example, my pick at 4 if the draft shakes out like we expect, I think Raymond is going to end up the better two-way player than Rossi will when it's all said and done. He has to develop that aspect of his game more than Rossi does at this stage, which is why I think Rossi is more NHL ready, but his agility and back checking is excellent already, he just has to get more responsible with when he applies pressure on and off the puck. I think he will, based on his continued growth in strength and speed from last season to this season, and his on-ice effort. He's not the fastest nor largest player, but his speed and edgework are already dynamic enough to play against men in SHL, and his terrific puck skills will make him a true dual threat. Having both Zadina and Raymond pan out for us will absolutely make our top 6 and PP more deadly, even if we don't land another 1C by the time we are competitive again. Both are players that have high hockey IQ and are very good at scoring and passing alike, while also being active and useful defenders.

In short, Raymond is no slouch and I will be thrilled if we draft him, and preferring Raymond to Rossi screams to me of people being enamored with an overager putting up points in a league he's too for. He seems like a great dude that will terrific in the locker room but I question his fit at C or the top line at the NHL level.

 

[ZDH]

@MBH

Just you on the Sanderson wagon bud

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Bravo. You articulated exactly why I am not on the Rossi train. It's the combination of the lack of elite skating, lack of size and lack of elite skill that make me think he is going to top out as a useful middle-six utility Winger. He makes a lot of correct decisions with the puck but at this stage of his career he hasn't shown me anything on the ice that screams "Future NHL Star". I want a high-end player who will be in the conversation for top 10 at his position in the NHL with a 4th Overall pick. That is the minimum expectation for that caliber of pick, and anything less is a failure. If Rossi had Perfetti's hockey IQ or Raymond's hands this is a different conversation. He has good IQ and good hands for a player, I think he absolutely is a 1st round pick, but neither of them are as game-titlting as Perfetti or Raymond.

To take Raymond as an example, my pick at 4 if the draft shakes out like we expect, I think Raymond is going to end up the better two-way player than Rossi will when it's all said and done. He has to develop that aspect of his game more than Rossi does at this stage, which is why I think Rossi is more NHL ready, but his agility and back checking is excellent already, he just has to get more responsible with when he applies pressure on and off the puck. I think he will, based on his continued growth in strength and speed from last season to this season, and his on-ice effort. He's not the fastest nor largest player, but his speed and edgework are already dynamic enough to play against men in SHL, and his terrific puck skills will make him a true dual threat. Having both Zadina and Raymond pan out for us will absolutely make our top 6 and PP more deadly, even if we don't land another 1C by the time we are competitive again. Both are players that have high hockey IQ and are very good at scoring and passing alike, while also being active and useful defenders.

In short, Raymond is no slouch and I will be thrilled if we draft him, and preferring Raymond to Rossi screams to me of people being enamored with an overager putting up points in a league he's too for. He seems like a great dude that will terrific in the locker room but I question his fit at C or the top line at the NHL level.

Rossi does have incredible Hockey IQ he was voted best in his conference in that regard.

 

[Killerjas]

@MBH

Just you on the Sanderson wagon bud

Over 150 votes and 1 for Sanderson. Has to be MBH for sure!

 

[Tetsuo]

Rossi does have incredible Hockey IQ he was voted best in his conference in that regard.

I would happen to disagree based off what I've seen. I would not say he's bad or even average but his decision making never wowed me personally. And this is when I was reviewing stuff in my boredom during quarantine, I had Rossi pretty high before I went through all the top guys again.

 

[DInTheB]

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Rossi does have incredible Hockey IQ he was voted best in his conference in that regard.

I think he has good hockey IQ and has a really mature understanding of the game, but I wouldn't call it incredible. I understand though that you are a big supporter of the guy.