Who is the most overrated player in the league?

[LeafsNation75]

Oh come on there’s people in this thread that have called him a product of McDavid etc. And no of course no one comments on how much Marner and Matthews help each other. Cause most hockey fans see that as great players helping each other, unfortunately certain leaf posters like to use that against other players arbitrarily.
Do a quick search for “Draisaitl Carried” or
Leaches or product. It’s not hard to use the search feature on this site. Here’s one gem of an example.

Matthews and Marner don't have long a history of playing together compared to McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

At one point that was a legit question to ask because in the 2015-16 season when McDavid missed 48 games due to injury, Draisaitl only had 51 points.

However in the 2016-17 when Draisaitl got to play with McDavid he went up to 77 points, so how else do you explain a 26 point increase like that in 1 season?

Progression of a player from rookie/youngster to one who has finally found his game at the NHL level? It's no different than any player who put up modest rookie/sophomore totals, then exploded into a star in Year 3 and beyond.

Not every player comes into the league and scores 100 points right out of the gate.

 

[NeverBeNormal]

Price easy.

 

[Dache]

Matthews and Marner don't have long a history of playing together compared to McDavid and Draisaitl.

What does that have to do with anything that I said?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Progression of a player from rookie/youngster to one who has finally found his game at the NHL level? It's no different than any player who put up modest rookie/sophomore totals, then exploded into a star in Year 3 and beyond.

Not every player comes into the league and scores 100 points right out of the gate.

Ovechkin and Crosby would be the exceptions since they had 102 points (Crosby) and 106 points (Ovechkin) in their rookie years during the 2005-06 season.

 

[LeafsNation75]

What does that have to do with anything that I said?

You said how Matthews and Marner help each other out. The same can't be said about McDavid and Draisaitl when they played with each other, since they did that a lot earlier in their careers. It wasn't until Matthews and Marner's 3rd year that Mike Babcock only put them together on the #1 power play line.

 

[CatchyTune]

At one point that was a legit question to ask because in the 2015-16 season when McDavid missed 48 games due to injury, Draisaitl only had 51 points.

However in the 2016-17 when Draisaitl got to play with McDavid he went up to 77 points, so how else do you explain a 26 point increase like that in 1 season?

I mean true but that was his D+2 and D+3. He probably developed as well as the Mcdavid factor.

Look at Marners 2nd and 3rd NHL year. He went up 25 points because he was a mainstay on Tavares' line rather than jumping up and down the lineup playing with a collection of solid players (JVR Bozak Kadri Marleau etc).

Would you say Tavares carries Marner? Or Marner carries Tavares? Neither really. They just both produce more due to both being elite players. Its no coincidence Tavares had a career high in both goals and points at 28 years old. Marner is the best player he ever played with. It goes both ways.

I just wanted to point that out, before someone on the other side of the argument makes a snarky reply.

 

[Dache]

At one point that was a legit question to ask because in the 2015-16 season when McDavid missed 48 games due to injury, Draisaitl only had 51 points.

However in the 2016-17 when Draisaitl got to play with McDavid he went up to 77 points, so how else do you explain a 26 point increase like that in 1 season?

So how did Kucherov get a 28 pt increase from 2017-18 to 2018-19 without McDavid? Or Marner the year he played with Tavares

 

[LeafsNation75]

I mean true but that was his D+2 and D+3. He probably developed as well as the Mcdavid factor.

Look at Marners 2nd and 3rd NHL year. He went up 25 points because he was a mainstay on Tavares' line rather than jumping up and down the lineup playing with a collection of solid players (JVR Bozak Kadri Marleau etc).

Would you say Tavares carries Marner? Or Marner carries Tavares? Neither really. They just both produce more due to both being elite players. Its no coincidence Tavares had a career high in both goals and points at 28 years old. Marner is the best player he ever played with. It goes both ways.

I just wanted to point that out, before someone on the other side of the argument makes a snarky reply.

I would say both Marner and Tavares were benefit to each other.

However let's not forget that same year was the first time Babcock put Matthews and Marner together on the #1 power play line, so that also helped with Marner's point increase going from 69 points to 94 points.

 

[Dache]

You said how Matthews and Marner help each other out. The same can't be said about McDavid and Draisaitl when they played with each other, since they did that a lot earlier in their careers. It wasn't until Matthews and Marner's 3rd year that Mike Babcock only put them together on the #1 power play line.

Yes. I said that Matthews and Marner help each other the same that Drai and McDavid do and that’s why it should be counted against Drai and not Mathews or Marner. So again, what are you debating?

 

[Captain Controversy]

Matthews and Marner don't have long a history of playing together compared to McDavid and Draisaitl.

Yeah? Draisaitl is better than both Mathews and Marner.
Don't try to compare stars to super stars.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yes. I said that Matthews and Marner help each other the same that Drai and McDavid do and that’s why it should be counted against Drai and not Mathews or Marner. So again, what are you debating?

I'm saying McDavid and Draisaitl had a head start when it comes to playing together at various times in a game, either at 5v5 or on the power play.

So how did Kucherov get a 28 pt increase from 2017-18 to 2018-19 without McDavid?

Playing with Brayden Point obviously helped Kucherov.

 

[Dache]

I would say both Marner and Tavares were benefit to each other.

However let's not forget that same year was the first time Babcock put Matthews and Marner together on the #1 power play line, so that also helped with Marner's point increase going from 69 points to 94 points.

So Marner is a 60 something pt player without Tavares or Matthews?

 

[Dache]

I'm saying McDavid and Draisaitl had a head start when it comes to playing together at various times in a game, either at 5v5 or on the power play.

Playing with Brayden Point obviously helped Kucherov.

So now Drai is being penalized for having chemistry with McDavid, and Point is on McDavids level because of the 28pt difference Kucherov got that year?

 

[LeafsNation75]

So now Drai is being penalized for having chemistry with McDavid, and Point is on McDavids level because of the 28pt difference Kucherov got that year?

I never said he should be penalized for having chemistry with McDavid. It's a fact they played together longer before Matthews and Marner played together.

You asked me why Kucherov went from 100 points to 128 points and I said Brayden Point was a factor since had 92 points himself. Not once did I say he was on McDavid's level.

 

[Dache]

I never said he should be penalized for having chemistry with McDavid. It's a fact they played together longer before Matthews and Marner played together.

You asked me why Kucherov went from 100 points to 128 points and I said Brayden Point was a factor since had 92 points himself. Not once did I say he was on McDavid's level.

You said McDavid was the reason Drai got 26 more points one year. And are saying that Drai and McDavid playing together is more of an advantage than Matthews has. And that Matthews is better than Drai Please say again what advantage that is and why Matthews is better so that I don’t misunderstand

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I never said he should be penalized for having chemistry with McDavid. It's a fact they played together longer before Matthews and Marner played together.

You asked me why Kucherov went from 100 points to 128 points and I said Brayden Point was a factor since had 92 points himself. Not once did I say he was on McDavid's level.

So was Marner the reason Tavares scored 47 goals when he'd never scored more than 38 goals before?

 

[LeafsNation75]

You said McDavid was the reason Drai got 26 more points one year. And are saying that Drai and McDavid playing together is more of an advantage than Matthews has. And that Matthews is better than Drai Please say again what advantage that is and why Matthews is better so that I don’t misunderstand

Was it wrong saying McDavid helped Draisaitl's points increase from 51 to 77? Besides I just said he helped that one year which was the 2016-17 season. I never said anything about the following seasons after that.

I also said it's a fact that McDavid and Draisaitl played together longer compared to Matthews and Marner, despite them being rookies on Toronto since the 2016-17 season and it only took Mike Babcock to put them on the #1 power play line until the 2018-19 season. It wasn't until Sheldon Keefe put them on the same 5v5 line during the 2019-20 season.

So was Marner the reason Tavares scored 47 goals when he'd never scored more than 38 goals before?

It was a combination of Marner along with Tavares playing with Marner and Matthews on the #1 power play line.

 

[Dache]

Was it wrong saying McDavid helped Draisaitl's points increase from 51 to 77? Besides I just said he helped that one year which was the 2016-17 season. I never said anything about the following seasons after that.

I also said it's a fact that McDavid and Draisaitl played together longer compared to Matthews and Marner, despite them being rookies on Toronto since the 2016-17 season and it only took Mike Babcock to put them on the #1 power play line until the 2018-19 season. It wasn't until Sheldon Keefe put them on the same 5v5 line during the 2019-20 season.

It was a combination of Marner along with Tavares playing with Marner and Matthews on the #1 power play line.

Oh ok. So you agree Drai is better. Thank you.

 

[Machinehead]

Thats great, but if you actually cared to watch him play you'd understand why people think that.

"You don't watch him play" should just be considered trolling at this point.

Lmfao McAvoy better than Jones

I don't even think it's close.

The only reason McAvoy doesn't get that respect is because people still think Chara carries the team at age 74.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

"You don't watch him play" should just be considered trolling at this point.


I don't even think it's close.

The only reason McAvoy doesn't get that respect is because people still think Chara carries the team at age 74.

It's also kind of weird how people think Jones carries Columbus. Their xGF%, scoring chance%, and high danger% are all higher when Jones isn't playing. Conversely, Boston does much better when McAvoy is on the ice

 

[Dache]

It's also kind of weird how people think Jones carries Columbus. Their xGF%, scoring chance%, and high danger% are all higher when Jones isn't playing. Conversely, Boston does much better when McAvoy is on the ice

That wouldn’t have anything to do with Jones being on the ice when the other team has their best players out would it? Not taking anything away from McAvoy though. Love him actually

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

That wouldn’t have anything to do with Jones being on the ice when the other team has their best players out would it? Not taking anything away from McAvoy though. Love him actually

I don't think so. McAvoy plays more against top competition (98th percentile) than Jones does (62nd percentile)

 

[Dache]

I don't think so. McAvoy plays more against top competition (98th percentile) than Jones does (62nd percentile)

Fair point. McAvoy does have a better all around team supporting him defensively imo though.

 

[Machinehead]

It's also kind of weird how people think Jones carries Columbus. Their xGF%, scoring chance%, and high danger% are all higher when Jones isn't playing. Conversely, Boston does much better when McAvoy is on the ice

I also wanna know where Jones "carries" Columbus to. The 7th best record in the East?

Seems like McAvoy just gets penalized for being on a good team.