Prospect Info: Who is the Canucks #2 prospect?

[Pseudonymous*]

huh?

You dont get a shot at cracking the nhl roster until you finish junior and even if they have finished junior, the team usually likes to see what they can do at the AHL next. Because they already have their rosters set and want to be 100 percent sure before they make room for a rookie, then there are things like salary cap

So you cannot say horvat isnt' as good as Corrado because one is older and has more time has passed for him to go through the hoops.

Imagine two dogs, one is an old slow dog, another is a dog who is speedy and is running around in circles at lightspeed, the old dog does a 20 meter lap in a time of an hour and 50 minutes, then the speedy dog is next to be timed, but wait a second, lets judge these dogs now, well the older dog has completed a time of an hour and 50 min!!!! hes the most valuable because the other dog doesnt' even have a time! LOLOL theres things such as common sense and attributes/toolset that should be taken into consideration, hey you can take your crap prospects and rate them higher because theyve made the nhl but youre nuts i want you in my hockey pool

 

[Taelin]

I vote for the highest potential.

 

[Tiranis]

Don't really understand the votes for Corrado. Being NHL ready should never trump raw potential when the divide is so big. Especially humorous given where Corrado finished last season (behind Connauton).

 

[thefeebster]

Shinkaruk for the potential and I think the impact he will have on the game will be greater than Corrado's if they reach their respective potential.

And people will note the lack of strength Shinkaruk has right now, but go back through the photo archives and you will see Corrado with the same build and physique at the prospects camp after he was drafted as well. Shinkaruk has a lot of developing to do, that's both a scary and delightful thought.

Don't really understand the votes for Corrado. Being NHL ready should never trump raw potential when the divide is so big. Especially humorous given where Corrado finished last season (behind Connauton).

I agree.

I fought tooth and nail in that Connauton/Corrado poll. Baffling result, to this day. Connauton should not have even been a top 10 prospect last off season.

 

[ShouldveDraftedFiala]

You dont get a shot at cracking the nhl roster until you finish junior and even if they have finished junior, the team usually likes to see what they can do at the AHL next. Because they already have their rosters set, then there are things like salary cap

So you cannot say horvat isnt' as good as Corrado because one is older and has more time has passed for him to go through the hoops.

Imagine two dogs, one is an old slow dog, another is a dog who is speedy and is running around in circles at lightspeed, the old dog does a 20 meter lap in a time of an hour and 50 minutes, then the speedy dog is next to be timed, but wait a second, lets judge these dogs now, well the older dog has completed a time of an hour and 50 min!!!! hes the most valuable because the other dog doesnt' even have a time! LOLOL theres things such as common sense and toolsets that should be taken into consideration, hey you can take your crap prospects and rate them higher because theyve made the nhl but youre nuts i want you in my hockey pool

What the **** are you talking about? You're actually trying to defend your opinion that player's do not play in the NHL right after they're drafted?

You live in a fantasy world, I'm done arguing with you.

 

[pitseleh]

Don't really understand the votes for Corrado. Being NHL ready should never trump raw potential when the divide is so big. Especially humorous given where Corrado finished last season (behind Connauton).

I'd say there's also a big divide between the likelihood that Corrado becomes a regular, contributing NHL player and the likelihood that Shinkaruk does. It's not the readiness so much as the probability of contributing at the NHL level that makes the difference for me.

I can definitely see how others could perceive the difference in likelihood vs. upside differently though.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I think Corrado has Hamhuis upside. I value a top pairing defenseman more than a scoring winger. Shinkaruk is great,, but Corrado is my #2.

 

[Pseudonymous*]

What the **** are you talking about? You're actually trying to defend your opinion that player's do not play in the NHL right after they're drafted?

You live in a fantasy world, I'm done arguing with you.

I live in a fantasy world? Yep the guy who rates his prospects by nhl readiness is saying I live in a fantasy world. hah I am just glad that you are not the GM, holding more value to somebody like Archibald, Sweatt, etc over guys like Horvat, Jensen and Gaunce.

And yes I am defending my opinion with the fact that players taht were drafted in this years draft haven't even been given a shot on the canucks yet, so to say somebody who has been given the shot is better only because more time has passed by, is silly.

How can you say somebody is better when the other is obviously better and has simply not been given his shot!?!

 

[Pseudonymous*]

I can definitely see how others could perceive the difference in likelihood vs. upside differently though.

I agree about the difference in how you judge those things and which should carry more weight but it starts to get a little ridiculous when all the weight is on readiness. as it would if it was the other way around and all the weight was only on skill but it was obvious this player had no drive or determination or a desire to play in the NHL. Its supposed to be a balance, with more weight on skill. Which is how all prospect sites and scouts and GMs rate their prospects

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think Corrado has Hamhuis upside. I value a top pairing defenseman more than a scoring winger. Shinkaruk is great,, but Corrado is my #2.

Pretty much the way I see it too. If Corrado was a first round pick I think that people would view him differently. I thought he should have made the Canadian junior team and every time I've seen him play I just come away more impressed.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Shinkaruk.

Also eliminate Schroeder as he's not really a "prospect" anymore.

 

[Wisp]

Aren't your best prospects the ones that are most NHL ready?

Your best prospects are the ones with the best toolset.

NHL-ready is a reflection of physical development. It is not an overall reflection of prospect quality.

 

[thefeebster]

Pretty much the way I see it too. If Corrado was a first round pick I think that people would view him differently. I thought he should have made the Canadian junior team and every time I've seen him play I just come away more impressed.

Where players are drafted should not play any factor here and hasn't with me choosing Shinkaruk over Corrado. Its irrelevant. You won't find a more ardent Corrado fan on here since he was drafted besides myself or Tiranis. We both seemed to choose Shinkaruk over Corrado for reasons completely unrelated to draft spot.

 

[Wisp]

I think Corrado has Hamhuis upside. I value a top pairing defenseman more than a scoring winger. Shinkaruk is great,, but Corrado is my #2.

See, canuklehead, this is a fair argument for Corrado's favour. "So and so can play in the NHL NOW so he's better" is not.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I agree about the difference in how you judge those things and which should carry more weight but it starts to get a little ridiculous when all the weight is on readiness. as it would if it was the other way around and all the weight was only on skill but it was obvious this player had no drive or determination or a desire to play in the NHL. Its supposed to be a balance, with more weight on skill. Which is how all prospect sites and scouts and GMs rate their prospects

This, a million times this.

Add Andersson. And Schroeder is definitely still a prospect.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Where players are drafted should not play any factor here and hasn't with me choosing Shinkaruk over Corrado. Its irrelevant. You won't find a more ardent Corrado fan on here since he was drafted besides myself or Tiranis. We both seemed to choose Shinkaruk over Corrado for reasons completely unrelated to draft spot.

I wasn't really saying that about anyone choosing Shinkaruk to be honest. My comment was more directed at why I felt that he was passsed over for the junior team. I have a hard time choosing between the two of them myself. You have watched both players play more than I have so I'm just going by what i've seen so far.
I'm really looking forward to watching them all in September and getting a better read on them.
It's exciting to finally have a group of prospects with all of this potential.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I'm going with the premise mentioned in the first thread... "most upside". HS has the "most upside" in my books.

If we were looking at "most ready", it would be Corrado or maybe Schroeder. Gaunce for guys who haven't played a game in the bigs yet.

 

[VeteranNetPresence]

chances of jensen busting?
i could see it happening

 

[pitseleh]

I agree about the difference in how you judge those things and which should carry more weight but it starts to get a little ridiculous when all the weight is on readiness. as it would if it was the other way around and all the weight was only on skill but it was obvious this player had no drive or determination or a desire to play in the NHL. Its supposed to be a balance, with more weight on skill. Which is how all prospect sites and scouts and GMs rate their prospects

I agree that it's ridiculous to put all weight on readiness.

There's no one way to weight the relative criteria of likelihood and upside. Ideally, if there was an objective way to measure these things, we could. But since we don't, you can't assert that you should put more weight on skill as everyone will have different perceptions on things.

Part of the reason I put more weight on likelihood of success because I think we have a narrower range of outcomes with a player like Corrado, who has passed a number of hurdles through which a significant number of prospects fail. Just as those who place too much emphasis on readiness probably undervalue the value of having a player turn into a top end contributor, the other side tends to ignore the fact that younger prospects will always look brighter because they have a broader range of potential outcomes because they haven't yet had the chance to fail.

For me, I see Corrado as a near lock to be an NHL player with a strong likelihood of becoming a top-4 defenceman. I see Shinkaruk as having a decent chances of becoming a first line calibre player, a good chance of becoming a second line player, but also having a decent chance of becoming an outright bust. Shinkaruk has more variance in his potential outcomes, which gives him greater upside, but I don't think it overcomes Corrado's likelihood of success.

At the end of the day, prospect lists are more about how to rate prospects than the prospects themselves, as the views of the qualities of the prospects tend to differ less than the views of how to weight each quality.

 

[Wisp]

chances of jensen busting?
i could see it happening

Consistency concerns are there, but he just had a productive season in Sweden and he hasn't even worn a single year off his ELC yet. A fully loaded ELC entering a stronger development environment in Utica? I wouldn't bet against him.

Even Schneider had a bad 1st season in the AHL.

 

[thefeebster]

I wasn't really saying that about anyone choosing Shinkaruk to be honest. My comment was more directed at why I felt that he was passsed over for the junior team. I have a hard time choosing between the two of them myself.
I'm really looking forward to watching them all in September and getting a better read on them.

Well then I think your first statement is a bit misleading then. You said if Corrado was a 1st round pick, people would view him differently. People being us here.

If you mean Hockey Canada, then I also disagree. IMO, it didn't have anything to do with his draft status. Hudon played with Team Canada several times, Lipon wasn't even drafted and played for Team Canada. Cutting Corrado was a baffling decision, I agree, but draft status was not the reason IMO.

 

[Wisp]

Well then I think your first statement is a bit misleading then. You said if Corrado was a 1st round pick, people would view him differently. People being us here.

If you mean Hockey Canada, then I also disagree. IMO, it didn't have anything to do with his draft status. Hudon played with Team Canada several times, Lipon wasn't even drafted and played for Team Canada. Cutting Corrado was a baffling decision, I agree, but draft status was not the reason IMO.

It didn't baffle me. Coach playing favourites with Murphy, plus other politics at play.

 

[Pseudonymous*]

chances of jensen busting?
i could see it happening

Depends what you consider a bust. Completely not making the nhl?

I am worried about him though, for a guy who apparently hates to lose and was getting on his teammates a little at one point (so i heard), he doesn't seem to really give his all out there.

But then again, i think his skill will take him into the NHL and coaches and GMs will give him a good shot because he has the size and skill , unlike a player like schroeder who , if he doesn't impress or give his all, will be stuck in the AHL for eternity.

I could really see him shining with players as highly skilled as he is. And he'll get that opportunity

I have him as our number 2 prospect and i am very excited to see him get another shot at a regular job in the nhl this year. I still think he has 40 goals a year upside, i see him very much like Jeff Carter as many people have mentioned

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Well then I think your first statement is a bit misleading then. You said if Corrado was a 1st round pick, people would view him differently. People being us here.

If you mean Hockey Canada, then I also disagree. IMO, it didn't have anything to do with his draft status. Hudon played with Team Canada several times, Lipon wasn't even drafted and played for Team Canada. Cutting Corrado was a baffling decision, I agree, but draft status was not the reason IMO.

Yes. That's what I meant. I could have worded it better.
We'll have to agree to disagree as to whether he would have made the team if he was a first round pick.

 

[TBIF]

Gaunce Corrado Shinkaruk Jensen in that order for me.