Who is best Peter Forsberg at his peak Vs Connor McDavid now?

[DatSnipeMatthews]

Forsberg at his peak had 183 points in 115 straight games while being a dominant physical beast and getting 4th in Selke voting in 2002-03 when his streak began. He had 27 points in 20 games in the 2002 playoffs, led the playoffs in points without his team making it to the finals while second place Yzerman had 23 in 24. I think most will vote McDavid but there is some projection there if you consider him better at his peak already because McDavid hasn't even shown what he can do in the playoffs yet and the only thing Forsberg lacked at his peak compared to McDavid now was full health.

I understand your point and I agree that Forsberg was a beast. However, he had other great linemates like HHOF Sakic, and then Tanguay and Hedjuk. McDavid has nobody really. Drai can't hold Sakic' jockstrap and RNH can't hold Hedjuk's.

 

[slimbob8]

Was Forsberg ever indisputably the best player in the world for a period of time? I remember him being one player among a series of 2-4 players who were very elite. But McDavid is clearly the very best and has been since last year.
And I hate the Oilers BTW.

Completely agree. He had a Hart trophy caliber season and an amazing career, but was never considered the best in the game by the vast majority of people like McDavid is now.

 

[authentic]

I understand your point and I agree that Forsberg was a beast. However, he had other great linemates like HHOF Sakic, and then Tanguay and Hedjuk. McDavid has nobody really. Drai can't hold Sakic' jockstrap and RNH can't hold Hedjuk's.

You're right about that which is why I think McDavid is the slightly better offensive player (than peak Forsberg), I can tell that much from watching them anyway. I don't think he is entirely a better overall player than Forsberg at his peak already though, but he could prove to be by the end of the season and maybe top it off with a good playoff run.

 

[bobbyking]

I bet ppl don't realize he's best the takeaway artist since peak dastyuk

 

[daver]

I understand your point and I agree that Forsberg was a beast. However, he had other great linemates like HHOF Sakic, and then Tanguay and Hedjuk. McDavid has nobody really. Drai can't hold Sakic' jockstrap and RNH can't hold Hedjuk's.

When did Sakic play on a line with Sakic? Get your facts straight.

Draisatl on McDavid's line > Sakic not on Forsberg's line.

 

[daver]

There's some yes, but I watched Forsberg and guys like that play throughout their entire primes. Sure there were times where I thought Forsberg was among the best players in the league and even arguably the best player for a short period. But it was always a group of guys at that level. There was never, ever a time with guys like Forsberg or Sakic, even during their Hart winning seasons, where I thought they were a full tier better than every single other player in the league. That's how I feel when I watch McDavid every night now. He's that good and nobody holds a torch to him IMO. The only guy I've ever thought that way about since Mario was Crosby 6-7 years ago.

Crosby was lapping the field at his peak. Malkin was too. McDavid has not. If you think he is as good as you say he is, he should be dominating the league in production or PPG.

 

[daver]

I understand your point and I agree that Forsberg was a beast. However, he had other great linemates like HHOF Sakic, and then Tanguay and Hedjuk. McDavid has nobody really. Drai can't hold Sakic' jockstrap and RNH can't hold Hedjuk's.

Draisatl finished 8th in scoring two years ago and dominated the playoffs. Should we devalue McDavid's 16/17 season because of this?

Both players have shown what they can do in a variety of conditions, so far Forsberg's best is ahead of McDavid's offensively. That could change soon though.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

So surprised about the vote, 179-116 for McJesus.
I guess too many 15-25 year old's here voting for McDavid who never seen Foppa play in his prime.

 

[nucks88]

Lol McDavid has no chance of surpassing Gretzky/Lemieux/Orr. Even Crosby doesn't sniff those 3 and I think Crosby>McDavid.

I said he has all the tools talent wise. I didn't say he will do it. Different time different game.

 

[TheMule93]

So surprised about the vote, 179-116 for McJesus.
I guess too many 15-25 year old's here voting for McDavid who never seen Foppa play in his prime.

It should be even more dominant of a win for McDavid. Guess theres too many old people here who romanticize players from the 90s/early 2000s.

 

[Seras]

Voted Forsberg but I saw him play from the start of his career, many have not.

 

[daver]

It should be even more dominant of a win for McDavid. Guess theres too many old people here who romanticize players from the 90s/early 2000s.

Great argument. Any other unrelated factor you want to throw in there.

 

[Willy Stylez]

McDavid now vs Forsberg in his peak? Then the answer is Forsberg.

 

[Ben White]

Completely agree. He had a Hart trophy caliber season and an amazing career, but was never considered the best in the game by the vast majority of people like McDavid is now.

You both ”remember” stuff, based on what? Forsberg was considered (in players’ n coaches’ polls and such), with stats to back it up, the hands down best player in the world between his playoff comeback in 2002 until his mid season injury in the 2005-06 season. Check your facts before ”remembering” things and ”agreeing” on thing’s you don’t have a clue about.

 

[DatSnipeMatthews]

When did Sakic play on a line with Sakic? Get your facts straight.

Draisatl on McDavid's line > Sakic not on Forsberg's line.

Only during PP. Moreover, Sakic was a world-class player on the same tier (or even better) which required the other team to focus just as much energy and resources trying to stop if. On Edmonton, you just need to stop McDavid (apart from that playoffs two years ago).

 

[authentic]

I bet ppl don't realize he's best the takeaway artist since peak dastyuk

Forsberg was quite good at that himself and better defensively though.

 

[authentic]

It should be even more dominant of a win for McDavid. Guess theres too many old people here who romanticize players from the 90s/early 2000s.

Why though? How is McDavid already easily better than peak Forsberg? 183 points in 115 straight regular season games from 2002-05 (131 point pace), 4th in Selke voting in 2002-03, physical play was near the top of the league for the time which was extremely physical as you know, and had 27 points in 20 playoff games when the next closest Stevie Y had 23 in 24. I just don't get where McDavid has shown to be better than that yet without projection of comparing them at the same age which this poll is not about.

 

[McFlash97]

McDavid is already better then peak Foppa and this gap will widen as 97 approaches mythical status the next few years.

 

[authentic]

McDavid is already better then peak Foppa and this gap will widen as 97 approaches mythical status the next few years.

Any real reason to believe that given the stats above?

 

[McFlash97]

Any real reason to believe that given the stats above?

There are so many dynamics to list.

Forsberg played with better players and team that was loaded.

McDavid destroys Forsbergs 5 on 5 numbers

Already scored more goals in a season then Peak Forsberg

2 Art Ross trophies by 21

Single handedly ended the worst run in sports ...the Oilers 10 season playoff drought on his own. Forsberg doesnt do this.



Plays in one of the biggest fishbowls in the league and manages to somehow not let the pressure get to him.


Forsberg in my opinion should make the top 50 greatest players list...but Connor McDavid is a different beast to tackle.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

So surprised about the vote, 179-116 for McJesus.
I guess too many 15-25 year old's here voting for McDavid who never seen Foppa play in his prime.

Oh look, it’s the old ageist ignorant argument.

Foppa is getting dangerously close to being overrated by a lot on HFBoards.

Signed, a guy who watched Forsberg play quite a bit.

 

[slimbob8]

You both ”remember” stuff, based on what? Forsberg was considered (in players’ n coaches’ polls and such), with stats to back it up, the hands down best player in the world between his playoff comeback in 2002 until his mid season injury in the 2005-06 season. Check your facts before ”remembering” things and ”agreeing” on thing’s you don’t have a clue about.

My facts? You pretty much just quoted a timeframe that only included Forsberg's Hart trophy winning season and tried to pawn it off as a 4 year span. He didn't play a single game in the 2001-2002 regular season. 03-04 he played 39 games. 05-06 he was nowhere near the Hart trophy force of a player he once was. The guy has exactly one top 5 Hart voting season in his entire career.

Yes he was considered the best player (or one of the best) in the league for that very short period of time, but my point is he was never once in his entire career considered a tier above everyone else like McDavid is now. The other guys winning the hardware during the timeframe you speak of were also thought of just as highly as Forsberg during that time. It was a small group of players that people argued about who was the best until Crosby finally came in and put that argument to rest for years.

 

[McRpro]

Oh look, it’s the old ageist ignorant argument.

Foppa is getting dangerously close to being overrated by a lot on HFBoards.

Signed, a guy who watched Forsberg play quite a bit.

What do you mean, "getting dangerously close"? He's already been overrated by tons of people here for years.

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

I think the obvious answer is peak Forsberg but how far away is McDavid from his peak?

 

[authentic]

There are so many dynamics to list.

Forsberg played with better players and team that was loaded.

McDavid destroys Forsbergs 5 on 5 numbers

Already scored more goals in a season then Peak Forsberg

2 Art Ross trophies by 21

Single handedly ended the worst run in sports ...the Oilers 10 season playoff drought on his own. Forsberg doesnt do this.



Plays in one of the biggest fishbowls in the league and manages to somehow not let the pressure get to him.


Forsberg in my opinion should make the top 50 greatest players list...but Connor McDavid is a different beast to tackle.

Forsberg played with better players and team that was loaded.

Which is why I agree he has the edge offensively.

McDavid destroys Forsbergs 5 on 5 numbers

McDavid has 97 ES points in his last 95 games averaging 22 minutes. Forsberg had 103 in 114 averaging 19. McDavid is the best ES player offensively we've seen since Jagr and perhaps even better, but he hardly destroys peak Forsberg there and Forsberg dominated all 3 zones even more. They're very close at overall ES play even considering linemates.

Already scored more goals in a season then Peak Forsberg

So has David Clarkson. It doesn't really mean much considering Forsberg was on pace for 35+ several times and scored more goals in the playoffs than players like Crosby, Malkin, Selanne, Fedorov and Brett Hull.

2 Art Ross trophies by 21

We already know he's better than Forsberg at the same age. We are talking about peak Forsberg who had the following lead in points per game in his 2 season peak.

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

vs.

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

Forsberg's 2003-04 was like Crosby's 2010-11, he would've had to score at well below a point per game the rest of the way to not win the scoring title and given that he was scoring at the exact same 1.41 points per game pace as the season before that's far from likely.

Continuing from that since we're speaking about current McDavid he's off to a great start this season with 21 in 13, but Forsberg in 2005-06 had 28 in his first 13.

Single handedly ended the worst run in sports ...the Oilers 10 season playoff drought on his own. Forsberg doesnt do this.

The Nordiques made the playoffs in Forsberg's rookie season without making it the year before and only once in the previous 8 seasons which included 2 seasons of Sakic and Stastny together. He went on to record a point per game in his first playoffs too vs. 9 in 13 for McDavid if you want to go there.

And good for him for not letting the pressure get to him, that's what great players do and like I said before McDavid will end up the better all-time player, but forgive me for debunking the notion that current McDavid is clearly better than peak Forsberg which is what this poll is about.

 

[daver]

My facts? You pretty much just quoted a timeframe that only included Forsberg's Hart trophy winning season and tried to pawn it off as a 4 year span. He didn't play a single game in the 2001-2002 regular season. 03-04 he played 39 games. 05-06 he was nowhere near the Hart trophy force of a player he once was. The guy has exactly one top 5 Hart voting season in his entire career.

Yes he was considered the best player (or one of the best) in the league for that very short period of time, but my point is he was never once in his entire career considered a tier above everyone else like McDavid is now. The other guys winning the hardware during the timeframe you speak of were also thought of just as highly as Forsberg during that time. It was a small group of players that people argued about who was the best until Crosby finally came in and put that argument to rest for years.

Most have McDavid with Crosby (and Malkin) on the same tier. Forsberg has the more dominant regular season between the two and a Top 20 playoff resume for good measure.

The players Forsberg was battling for #1 spot were Jagr and Sakic, both of whom also peaked higher than McDavid has.