Who is best Peter Forsberg at his peak Vs Connor McDavid now?

Who is best Peter Forsberg at his peak Vs Connor McDavid now?

  • Peter Forsberg

    Votes: 157 38.6%
  • Connor McDavid

    Votes: 250 61.4%

  • Total voters
    407

daver

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Because the clutch-and-grab era in hockey is over

But the much better skating d-men, better goalies, and better defensive system era started since Forsberg's time so there is zero reason to think that Forsberg gets extra points for playing when he did.

Both player would excel in any era they played but not more than they actually did.
 

GMofOilers

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I love Forsberg, prob my fav player outside Messier and Gretzky.

2 Art's before the age of 21, well the only player to ever do that in the history of the game is Gretzky.

Not a small feat, hes not dominating the scoring like Gretz, but holy dam thats impressive. That is playing against a prime Ovie, prime Crosby, prime Malkin.

Before you say not prime, do some homework, alot of greats/legends have great, almost career years around 30 years old ex Sakic, Yzerman, Jagr, Forsberg, etc.
 

authentic

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Jan 28, 2015
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But the much better skating d-men, better goalies, and better defensive system era started since Forsberg's time so there is zero reason to think that Forsberg gets extra points for playing when he did.

Both player would excel in any era they played but not more than they actually did.

While the first part is true, although goaltending has hardly improved much since 2002-2005, it's not a given that all players would perform the same in every era. There are a lot of variables to consider and some players skillsets could be suited better for one era than another. I don't agree that Forsberg would be better today than he was though, just saying you never really know. I feel like Bure could've been a bit better in this era.
 

authentic

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I love Forsberg, prob my fav player outside Messier and Gretzky.

2 Art's before the age of 21, well the only player to ever do that in the history of the game is Gretzky.

Not a small feat, hes not dominating the scoring like Gretz, but holy dam thats impressive. That is playing against a prime Ovie, prime Crosby, prime Malkin.

Before you say not prime, do some homework, alot of greats/legends have great, almost career years around 30 years old ex Sakic, Yzerman, Jagr, Forsberg, etc.

Well yeah, except in this case it's obvious to anyone who watched 22-25 year old Ovechkin and a younger Crosby that they are not as good as they once were, especially Ovechkin. Malkin looks the closest to his younger self and his points per game last season and this season combined is basically the same as McDavid's. Forsberg also had his peak later than most players. McDavid is better than Forsberg at the same age though.
 
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daver

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While the first part is true, although goaltending has hardly improved much since 2002-2005, it's not a given that all players would perform the same in every era. There are a lot of variables to consider and some players skillsets could be suited better for one era than another. I don't agree that Forsberg would be better today than he was though, just saying you never really know. I feel like Bure could've been a bit better in this era.

The OP isn't asking to speculate on how each player would do in each other's era so pointing out that Forsberg played in the "clutch and grab" era is irrelevant. It makes it sound like he wasn't able to separate himself from his peers anymore than he did.
 

daver

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I love Forsberg, prob my fav player outside Messier and Gretzky.

2 Art's before the age of 21, well the only player to ever do that in the history of the game is Gretzky.

Not a small feat, hes not dominating the scoring like Gretz, but holy dam thats impressive. That is playing against a prime Ovie, prime Crosby, prime Malkin.

Before you say not prime, do some homework, alot of greats/legends have great, almost career years around 30 years old ex Sakic, Yzerman, Jagr, Forsberg, etc.

AS should you. It is clear that the Big Three aren't close to their peak performances. McDavid doesn't win the Ross against them or even Kane the year before.
 

nucks88

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I have been watching hockey for decades and I have never seen anyone with the skill MacDavid has at full speed. He has all the tools to be top 3 all time but he needs some supporting players soon...
 

daver

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Of course this went right over your head.

What did? The idea that McDavid was beating those at close to their best? OV was eight years from his peak, Crosby and Malkin were five years from theirs.

He has two middle of the pack Art Ross wins since the lockout. That Forsberg missed some games at his peak level is the only argument that there is for McDavid as Forsberg had a dominant PPG from 2o02/03 to 2003/04.
 
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GMofOilers

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What did? The idea that McDavid was beating those at close to their best? OV was eight years from his peak, Crosby and Malkin were five years from theirs.

He has two middle of the pack Art Ross wins since the lockout. That Forsberg missed some games at his peak level is the only argument that there is for McDavid as Forsberg had a dominant PPG from 2o02/03 to 2003/04.

Crosby just won a conn smythe 2 years in a row with 2 cups. That’s not in his prime?

Also when did I say the word peak? Maybe re read my post again. I used the word Prime!

But there you go trying to move goal posts again.
 
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daver

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I love Forsberg, prob my fav player outside Messier and Gretzky.

2 Art's before the age of 21, well the only player to ever do that in the history of the game is Gretzky.

Not a small feat, hes not dominating the scoring like Gretz, but holy dam thats impressive. That is playing against a prime Ovie, prime Crosby, prime Malkin.

Before you say not prime, do some homework, alot of greats/legends have great, almost career years around 30 years old ex Sakic, Yzerman, Jagr, Forsberg, etc.

Crosby just won a conn smythe 2 years in a row with 2 cups. That’s not in his prime?

Also when did I say the word peak? Maybe re read my post again. I used the word Prime!

But there you go trying to move goal posts again.

You inferred that Crosby, OV and Malkin were putting up "great, almost career years" while McDavid was winning his Art Rosses.

- Crosby's career year saw him dominate in PPG or dominate in points depending on your viewpoint.

- Malkin won the Art Ross by 12 points in only 75 games with a dominant PPG

- OV had a generational goalscoring year when he won the Art Ross and had a clearly more dominant PPG in 09/10 when he missed games.


They were not "almost close to their career year" forms. McDavid likely has zero Art Rosses if they were. I really don't see the reason why McDavid fans have to exaggerate.
 
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GMofOilers

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@daver

I love Forsberg, prob my fav player outside Messier and Gretzky.

2 Art's before the age of 21, well the only player to ever do that in the history of the game is Gretzky.

Not a small feat, hes not dominating the scoring like Gretz, but holy dam thats impressive. That is playing against a prime Ovie, prime Crosby, prime Malkin.

Before you say not prime, do some homework, alot of greats/legends have great, almost career years around 30 years old ex Sakic, Yzerman, Jagr, Forsberg, etc.

Prime not peak. So hard to understand for you I guess?
 

GMofOilers

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You inferred that Crosby, OV and Malkin were putting up "great, almost career years" while McDavid was winning his Art Rosses.

- Crosby's career year saw him dominate in PPG or dominate in points depending on your viewpoint.

- Malkin won the Art Ross by 12 points in only 75 games with a dominant PPG

- OV had a generational goalscoring year when he won the Art Ross and had a clearly more dominant PPG in 09/10 when he missed games.


They were not "almost close to their career year" forms. McDavid likely has zero Art Rosses if they were. I really don't see the reason why McDavid fans have to exaggerate.

So if Malkin beats his peak year this year while still in his prime, whats your argument?
 

daver

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So if Malkin beats his peak year this year while still in his prime, whats your argument?

I just don't like name-dropping and ambiguous terms like "prime" to boost a player. Every season can be measured by how one did vs. their peers. In terms of how well McDavid and Forsberg did in their peak seasons vs. their peers (the Top 20 or so scorers), Forsberg's peak season was better than McDavid's in offensive production if you consider he missed some games.

Playoffs and 2-way play make the gap even bigger.
 

Son Goku

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You inferred that Crosby, OV and Malkin were putting up "great, almost career years" while McDavid was winning his Art Rosses.

- Crosby's career year saw him dominate in PPG or dominate in points depending on your viewpoint.

- Malkin won the Art Ross by 12 points in only 75 games with a dominant PPG

- OV had a generational goalscoring year when he won the Art Ross and had a clearly more dominant PPG in 09/10 when he missed games.


They were not "almost close to their career year" forms. McDavid likely has zero Art Rosses if they were. I really don't see the reason why McDavid fans have to exaggerate.
This.
 

slimbob8

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It's always tough for people to accept such greatness from a young player, but like it or not McDavid right now is one of the best talents this league has ever seen. He's on a whole different level than countless former Hart trophy winners.
 

Bouboumaster

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Jul 4, 2014
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I'd take McDavid in a second.
Forsberg was a great player, but McDavid have the potential and all the tools to become a legendary player, like a Crosby or a Ovechkin.
 

authentic

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I'd take McDavid in a second.
Forsberg was a great player, but McDavid have the potential and all the tools to become a legendary player, like a Crosby or a Ovechkin.

Crosby and Ovechkin are not a whole other level of player than Forsberg though, this is exactly why he's underrated.
 

daver

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It's always tough for people to accept such greatness from a young player, but like it or not McDavid right now is one of the best talents this league has ever seen. He's on a whole different level than countless former Hart trophy winners.

I am sure he will prove this at some point but he is not there yet. There are multiple Art Rosses and Hart wins stronger than his just in the past 14 years.
 

McVespa99

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You mean when he was 33 on one ankle? McDavid will be great in the playoffs I'm sure, but Forsberg had 9 points in his last 12 games at 33/34 with bad ankle issues that stopped him from playing. Better than McDavid has done at a time when he's apparently already better than peak Forsberg.

No I mean in the year that his team didnt make the playoffs. Try to keep up
 

slimbob8

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Aug 11, 2016
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I am sure he will prove this at some point but he is not there yet. There are multiple Art Rosses and Hart wins stronger than his just in the past 14 years.

There's some yes, but I watched Forsberg and guys like that play throughout their entire primes. Sure there were times where I thought Forsberg was among the best players in the league and even arguably the best player for a short period. But it was always a group of guys at that level. There was never, ever a time with guys like Forsberg or Sakic, even during their Hart winning seasons, where I thought they were a full tier better than every single other player in the league. That's how I feel when I watch McDavid every night now. He's that good and nobody holds a torch to him IMO. The only guy I've ever thought that way about since Mario was Crosby 6-7 years ago.
 

authentic

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No I mean in the year that his team didnt make the playoffs. Try to keep up

Every single regular season Forsberg played in he also played in the playoffs. Nice try though. Incase you didn't notice he was traded to Nashville in 2006-07 when Philadelphia missed the playoffs, he only played with them for 40 games that season on one ankle.
 

authentic

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There's some yes, but I watched Forsberg and guys like that play throughout their entire primes. Sure there were times where I thought Forsberg was among the best players in the league and even arguably the best player for a short period. But it was always a group of guys at that level. There was never, ever a time with guys like Forsberg or Sakic, even during their Hart winning seasons, where I thought they were a full tier better than every single other player in the league. That's how I feel when I watch McDavid every night now. He's that good and nobody holds a torch to him IMO. The only guy I've ever thought that way about since Mario was Crosby 6-7 years ago.

If McDavid wins his 3rd straight scoring title, especially if it's in dominant fashion and goes over a point per game in the playoffs assuming his team makes it there I would have no problem declaring him better than peak Forsberg. I think he has a very good shot at that so let's see how he does.
 

Muffin

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Aug 14, 2009
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I have been watching hockey for decades and I have never seen anyone with the skill MacDavid has at full speed. He has all the tools to be top 3 all time but he needs some supporting players soon...
Lol McDavid has no chance of surpassing Gretzky/Lemieux/Orr. Even Crosby doesn't sniff those 3 and I think Crosby>McDavid.
 

DatSnipeMatthews

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Oct 5, 2017
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Was Forsberg ever indisputably the best player in the world for a period of time? I remember him being one player among a series of 2-4 players who were very elite. But McDavid is clearly the very best and has been since last year.
And I hate the Oilers BTW.
 

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