Speculation: Who do we target on D after OEL Buyout?

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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d targets

Sanheim Theodore
Toews Pesce
Hanifin Roy

Orlov Severson
Graves Dumba
Soucy Mayfield
Dumoulin Schenn

Forbort Peeke
Boqvist Murphy

Robertson Coghlan
 
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krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
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I mean...that's the whole thing with guys like Hutton and Mike Reilly. If they're playing those minutes...but not up to an actual Top-4D level what's the actual point? Teams just don't like to waste time with guys who are tweeners like that. Why would they? There's no upside.

If they can skate at a level that lets them fill a bunch of minutes badly...but don't offer anything else that'd make them useful as a 3rd pairing guy...what's the point? Might as well just use those minutes to see if someone else can play bigger minutes with an opportunity.

They're useful if you can get them on a minimum sort of deal like Hutton with Vegas. Stash them as your "spare" and hopefully never play them. If you have to fill a Top-4 role for a stint due to injury, plug them in and hope they can keep their head above water for a few minutes. But if you pencil any of that sort of player into your opening night Top-4D you've already lost the season.

i am not a pro-scout, have not watched him closely and so i don't know if there is any upside to reilly or wysiwyg. based on what i see him being a hutton seems like the worst case scenario (as well as being the most likely situation). maybe a slightly better hutton. as i said, he has managed to earn significant minutes in three organizations and there are possible extenuating circumstances for the fact they have all moved on from him. his third team, boston, thought he was worth $3m which means they certainly didn't think they were acquiring a hutton.

if you compare that to hutton, the verdict is more clear: both vancouver and la walked away from him even though he played big minutes for both, and he spent lengthy periods unsigned after both teams passed. pro scouting has spoken. his resume is worse than reilly's.

as for a hutton type minute munching 6d being a waste of a slot, i disagree. the canucks have many needs and limited cap space and limited trade options in the market. they need an experienced blueliner who can eat minutes both to support hughes and as insurance against a hughes injury. they also have significant but inexperienced depth with upside at lhd. if they make a significant investment in a dman behind hughes right now those guys are logjammed fighting for one slot. if they acquire reilly, with one year left on a $3m deall, he can be pushed down the depth chart if other guys earn it. we've seen it before.

so i'd have a hard look at reilly if i was the canucks. maybe he's junk but he actually seems like he might be a good fit if they have faith in their younger guys developing.
 

EverTheCynic

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Calgary is imploding and Andersson would be a fantastic addition.

Might be able to get him for a strictly futures package, and could probably unload a contract as well.
 

ChuckNorris4Cup

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sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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Focus on the top4

Myers will be needed to drop into the btm4 group, Bear will need time to recover and get up to speed.

Rathbone Wolanin Hirose Brisebois Juulsen Burroughs? McWard Johansson Myers should be the depth
 
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ChuckNorris4Cup

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9. Ryan Graves​

Position: LD
Age: 28
Last team: Devils
2022-23 cap hit: $3.167M
Graves moves pretty well for a player of his stature of 6-foot-5, 220 pounds. His underrated two-way game makes him a perfectly capable No. 4 defenseman.

19. Scott Mayfield​

Position: RD
Age: 30
Last team: Islanders
2022-23 cap hit: $1.45M
If the 6-foot-5, 220-pound Mayfield is paired with a strong skater and puck-mover, he can survive in a top-four role thanks to his size and defensive prowess

28. Radko Gudas​

Position: RD
Age: 33
Last team: Panthers
2022-23 cap hit: $2.5M
Gudas is as mean and nasty as they come, making him a perfect third-pairing defenseman for a team looking to make a deep playoff run. He's underrated analytically, too.

33. Carson Soucy​

Position: LD
Age: 28
Last team: Kraken
2022-23 cap hit: $2.75M
A solid third-pairing defender who brings size (6-foot-5, 208 pounds), grit (143 hits), and the ability to play both sides.
 
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MarkMM

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Jan 30, 2010
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Delta, BC

9. Ryan Graves​

Position: LD
Age: 28
Last team: Devils
2022-23 cap hit: $3.167M

19. Scott Mayfield​

Position: RD
Age: 30
Last team: Islanders
2022-23 cap hit: $1.45M


28. Radko Gudas​

Position: RD
Age: 33
Last team: Panthers
2022-23 cap hit: $2.5M


33. Carson Soucy​

Position: LD
Age: 28
Last team: Kraken
2022-23 cap hit: $2.75M

Could be fits, depending on the price. Graves looking at potentially $5M+ makes him a bit too steep, if Soucy is a $3M for a relatively short deal ($3x3) maybe, not sure what Mayfield would command, if he's looking for $4M x 4 years that might be the highest I'd do.
 

andora

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Apr 23, 2002
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Could be fits, depending on the price. Graves looking at potentially $5M+ makes him a bit too steep, if Soucy is a $3M for a relatively short deal ($3x3) maybe, not sure what Mayfield would command, if he's looking for $4M x 4 years that might be the highest I'd do.
No to that on mayfield.. age and foot speed primarily.. that might be the ceiling for soucy.. mine is 3.5
 
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racerjoe

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The retool on the fly is possible if you have shrewd scouts who can pick undervalued players, so if this is the root management / ownership is going then they have to prove they can find that kind of talent in the bargain bin otherwise playing the odds and doing a proper rebuild would be the smarter option.



One thing I could see (hope?) is something like they qualify / re-sign Bear and put him on LTIR, sign Schenn in free-agency as a temporary replacement and when Bear returns then bump Schenn down to Myers's spot and auction off Myers for whatever we can, even just waiving him for free.

Hopefully some team looking for a free asset at minimal cost will take him, maybe to make up for an injury of their own, and the Canucks could weaponize that free cap space at the TDL.

Agree with both points, but question on the scouting. What would make you believe they are hitting on the scouting? They have done a good job so far, but is there a specific thing you are looking for?

I mean with Kuze, and the college FA's, last years Euro FA's it looks promising to me.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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This Canuck blueline is a total crapshoot, with Bear gone for at least half the season and Myers entering the last year of his deal, and a definite trade candidate.

Once you get past Hughes and Hronek--the depth basically falls off the table. I suppose the Canucks could give some of last year's Abbotsford Canucks a shot. It worked decently down the stretch., But certainly not in a top-four role.

I don't see how they won't be active in the UFA market, unless they can somehow pull off a 'hockey trade' acquiring a d-man for their excess of wingers.

Mayfield and Soucy would be nice UFA additions--but they wouldn't come cheap.
 

MarkMM

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Agree with both points, but question on the scouting. What would make you believe they are hitting on the scouting? They have done a good job so far, but is there a specific thing you are looking for?

I mean with Kuze, and the college FA's, last years Euro FA's it looks promising to me.

Oh I'm not questioning the scouting, just saying that if the Canucks are going for it instead of rebuilding then I'd want them to bet on the scouts instead of trying to buy their way out of free agency.

FTR I've been a fan of their professional scouting calls, only questions I've had was whether Mikheyev should have been the priority to spend our cap on and I was lukewarm on Lekkerimaki but that's too soon to say.

So yes, I currently have confidence in their scouting, less so on their cap management, and would rather see them hold their cap space for the right moment rather than rush out and get into bidding wars in free agency.
 
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biturbo19

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i am not a pro-scout, have not watched him closely and so i don't know if there is any upside to reilly or wysiwyg. based on what i see him being a hutton seems like the worst case scenario (as well as being the most likely situation). maybe a slightly better hutton. as i said, he has managed to earn significant minutes in three organizations and there are possible extenuating circumstances for the fact they have all moved on from him. his third team, boston, thought he was worth $3m which means they certainly didn't think they were acquiring a hutton.

if you compare that to hutton, the verdict is more clear: both vancouver and la walked away from him even though he played big minutes for both, and he spent lengthy periods unsigned after both teams passed. pro scouting has spoken. his resume is worse than reilly's.

as for a hutton type minute munching 6d being a waste of a slot, i disagree. the canucks have many needs and limited cap space and limited trade options in the market. they need an experienced blueliner who can eat minutes both to support hughes and as insurance against a hughes injury. they also have significant but inexperienced depth with upside at lhd. if they make a significant investment in a dman behind hughes right now those guys are logjammed fighting for one slot. if they acquire reilly, with one year left on a $3m deall, he can be pushed down the depth chart if other guys earn it. we've seen it before.

so i'd have a hard look at reilly if i was the canucks. maybe he's junk but he actually seems like he might be a good fit if they have faith in their younger guys developing.

I mean, at one point...Vancouver paid Hutton a near as makes no difference, $3M multi-year contract. :dunno:

They're both just the type of player that gets bumped up the depth chart when a team runs out of other options, and they're generally in a bad spot where the team isn't really competitive, or they have real stud defencemen to keep that player somewhat afloat.

The extenuating circumstances are on the other end of this sort of scenario. It's extenuating circumstances that cause a team to play a Mike Reilly or Ben Hutton 19 minutes a night out of desperation and a lack of other options.

There are probably worse guys to take on in a depth role so you've got them in case of that sort of dire situation. But they can't be a "Plan A" or even "Plan B" penciled in for Top-4 minutes if you want to ice a competitive blueline. Especially valid acquisitions if they come cheap...maybe after Boston buys him out for instance. But i'm not sure what we're lacking is even really decent depth defencemen who can play minutes in a pinch. Especially if we end up stuck with Myers on the 3rd pairing all year. Maybe Reilly at $900k as the #6/7D makes sense. Though probably more upside to just letting a guy like Wolanin have an opportunity there.

I think the problem with guys like Hutton/Reilly, is that when you push them down to that depth role and minutes that make sense, they tend to be pretty unsteady there, because they play a riskier game more in line with a Top-4 puck mover in style and demeanor. Which means they're going to have a lot more brainfart risky play mistakes and turnovers than you want out of your low event 3rd pairing. Especially when we'll already have Myers to do inexplicable things on that pairing.

Calgary is imploding and Andersson would be a fantastic addition.

Might be able to get him for a strictly futures package, and could probably unload a contract as well.

If Calgary really does go scorched earth and puts Andersson on the market, he'd be an incredible addition to play with Hughes. On a fantastic contract as well.

But he'd be the sort of piece that would very likely start with giving up our 11th overall pick. That's really the only asset we have that i think would get us in the door to that bidding war. We'd be up against heavies with all sorts of futures assets like Buffalo.

I also feel like a 26/27 year old Top-3 RHD locked up with some term is probably one of the last guys the Flames would look to move. Seems more like Hanifin is on his way out, probably Tanev as well. Zadorov as a rental probably. Weegar maybe if they could find a taker for his contract. All before i think they'd move Anderson. Some of those other guys wouldn't be a terrible add either though.

What about Gudas or Mayfield, a cheaper option for the 3rd line with some grit.

Gudas might still be reasonably cheap, but i'm not sure how he'd do outside of that weird Florida vortex where defencemen massively outperform expectations for some reason. He's coming off a pretty solid playoff run and he's been decent for Florida in general, but prior to that, he was a pretty big liability for the most part. He's also very old, so you'd have to be getting him on limited term.


Mayfield probably isn't going to be anything resembling "cheaper" though. He's a 31 year old big stay at home RHD that everyone is looking for, who has spent his entire career on budget deals. This is his big and probably only chance to cash out. I think he's going to end up at least in the $4.5M range with significant term that probably takes him through his 35 or 36 year old season.

I kind of bounce back and forth on whether he might be worth it. I think he's got the potential to be a fantastic partner for Hughes for 2-3 years. So you're probably getting what you want for half that contract. But it's not great to go into a contract expecting half of it to be a bit of a boat anchor. Especially if his already kind of lagging mobility starts to fade.
 
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biturbo19

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This Canuck blueline is a total crapshoot, with Bear gone for at least half the season and Myers entering the last year of his deal, and a definite trade candidate.

Once you get past Hughes and Hronek--the depth basically falls off the table. I suppose the Canucks could give some of last year's Abbotsford Canucks a shot. It worked decently down the stretch., But certainly not in a top-four role.

I don't see how they won't be active in the UFA market, unless they can somehow pull off a 'hockey trade' acquiring a d-man for their excess of wingers.

Mayfield and Soucy would be nice UFA additions--but they wouldn't come cheap.

Yeah. I don't know that the "depth" really drops off though. I think we've got some guys who can probably play okay bottom-pairing minutes for stretches at least. But the depth of Top-4D is just non-existent beyond Hughes+Hronek. Leaves two huge holes in the defence corps that need to be filled with quality players, in order to push everyone else down to where they belong.


Feels like we've basically got those 2 big holes...but only have the cap space to plug 1 of them. Hopefully there's a way to maneuver some of that cap allocated to wingers up front, toward a second solution on defence. Even if it is just a stopgap/bandaid type fix.
 

strattonius

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Jul 4, 2011
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Soucy 4x4 seems good to me. Size, PK and good age range for a defenseman. He doesn't have heavy miles and his defensive upside is there. Playing both sides is a nice value add.

Mayfield will be looking for more - 30 yrs old hoping for a retirement deal. Not fond of those years.

Graves will get too much.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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Soucy 4x4 seems good to me. Size, PK and good age range for a defenseman. He doesn't have heavy miles and his defensive upside is there. Playing both sides is a nice value add.

Mayfield will be looking for more - 30 yrs old hoping for a retirement deal. Not fond of those years.

Graves will get too much.
Soucy has been a bottom pairing guy all his time in the NHL and will be 29 in few months.


Agree on Graves.
 
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logan5

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May 24, 2011
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I don't understand why Allvin is saying we are not trading Myers. Is this some kind of reverse psychology trick? Or maybe it's resignation that we can't unload him for near nothing. The thought of unloading both OEL and Myers to give us 12 million to spend on a 2 new top 4 d to add to Hughes and Hronek is very tantalizing. I hope Allvin is bluffing with his not trading Myers talk.
 
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Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
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I don't understand why Allvin is saying we are not trading Myers. Is this some kind of reverse psychology trick? Or maybe it's resignation that we can't unload him for near nothing. The thought of unloading both OEL and Myers to give us 12 million to spend on a 2 new top 4 d to add to Hughes and Hronek is very tantalizing. I hope Allvin is bluffing with his not trading Myers talk.
In an ideal world, sure. In a realistic world, moving Garland + OEL’s completed buyout gives them enough space to make a few pretty big moves.

Given that it likely costs them now vs they would get an asset if they delayed gratification for a few months, it makes a lot of sense to wait.

Obviously I think they push moving him now if they have a move lined up right after. Or if someone makes a good enough offer to justify not waiting it out.
 

PuckMunchkin

Very Nice, Very Evil!
Dec 13, 2006
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I don't understand why Allvin is saying we are not trading Myers. Is this some kind of reverse psychology trick? Or maybe it's resignation that we can't unload him for near nothing. The thought of unloading both OEL and Myers to give us 12 million to spend on a 2 new top 4 d to add to Hughes and Hronek is very tantalizing. I hope Allvin is bluffing with his not trading Myers talk.
Its because right now we are looking to ice three NHL caliber Dmen at the start of the season.

If we move Myers that becomes two NHL caliber Dmen.
 
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Nucker101

Foundational Poster
Apr 2, 2013
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Its because right now we are looking to ice three NHL caliber Dmen at the start of the season.

If we move Myers that becomes two NHL caliber Dmen.
If the player is a net negative nhl caliber player who makes my eyes wanna bleed with his mistakes then I don’t really give a shit.

But I see what you’re saying since Allvin/Tocchet likely don’t see things through that lens.
 

DFAC

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Jan 19, 2008
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Dunno if its been posted but Dhaliwal reporting that the Canucks have just offered Burroughs a new contract.

Honestly I like it. He’ll probably come cheap and brings some sandpaper to our team. As long as he’s a 6/7 guy you rotate in and out of the lineup and not a regular logging 20+ mins
 

Cancuks

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Jan 13, 2014
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No to any of these UFAs aside from maybe Schenn. I think the best move would be to try and acquire some younger dmen prospects who are buried in the AHL on other teams and appear to be ready to make the next step. Cost shouldn't be too much aside from similar prospects on the Canucks. These are the kind of guys who could end up being the next sleeper and turn into a legit top 4 dman.

Some names:

CBJ - Marcus Bjork RD, 25, 6-3" 203
LA - Jacob Moverare LD, 24, 6-2" 198
NJ - Reilly Walsh RD, 24, 5-11" 181
NYI - Robin Salo LD, 24, 6-0" 181
NYR - Matthew Robertson LD, 22, 6-4" 202
OTT - Jacob Bernard-Docker RD, 22, 6-1" 190
PHI - Ronnie Attard, RD, 24, 6-3" 205
VGK - Daniil Miromanov RD, 25, 6-4" 205
WPG - Simon Lundmark RD, 22, 6-2" 201
 
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