Speculation: Who do we target on D after OEL Buyout?

[PuckMunchkin]

That's fair. If the guy they went out got for his skating has suddenly...lost that edge in his skating, that's a disaster. Though not one you can really predict on UFA Day.


I agree that it seemed a bit puzzling to go after another Winger at that point, when we were already so full up on them. But there was an obviously focused attempt to bring something to our winger group that we really didn't have. It'd be one thing if they'd gone out an spent big on another soft skill guy who is slow and doesn't offer anything else. That'd be absurd. But Mikheyev at least...i can understand the thinking there. It's a premium price as always in UFA...but it's a premium because you can get small slow skill wingers cheap as dirt at any time, but big fast two-way guys tend to be more expensive.

It took me a while to come around to understand it, where...i think the intent is to basically jettison as much of this dead weight, soft, slow, point-producing winger group as possible. To reshape the forward corps into something actually respectable.


Speed. Size. Physicality. Two-way responsibility. That's how you build something. Long ways to go. Lot of bodies to move out. Still clearly lacking an actual #3C which isn't great and is going to cost a fortune for a good one.

I totally understand the appeal.

But the process is wrong for a team in our position. We didnt have the cap space or roster depth to just laser focus on a player. Needed to be more patient. See what is in the bargain bin after the initial frenzy.

But this is the OEL replacement thread.

 

[biturbo19]

I totally understand the appeal.

But the process is wrong for a team in our position. We didnt have the cap space or roster depth to just laser focus on a player. Needed to be more patient. See what is in the bargain bin after the initial frenzy.

But this is the OEL replacement thread.

The reality though, is that what we've got is the sort of guys you find in the "bargain bin". The only way to get assets with premium traits and who fill highly important roles, is to pay them, spend big to trade for them...or draft them.


The whole idea of an OEL Replacement Thread is that we shouldn't be trying to replace the guy who was a terrible fit and also old and then got injured and became worse.

Replacing him is about...how to we leverage that minimal cap savings into an actual steady, reliably Top-4D? Actually...we desperately need two of them at least. But it becomes a little bit like the Mikheyev thing where you're going to pay a premium for guys who have those sort of traits and fill that sort of role.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The reality though, is that what we've got is the sort of guys you find in the "bargain bin". The only way to get assets with premium traits and who fill highly important roles, is to pay them, spend big to trade for them...or draft them.

That does not really help us towards a contention window.

We are so inefficient with how we've spent our cap. This is why I feel the current plan is pure insanity.

The whole idea of an OEL Replacement Thread is that we shouldn't be trying to replace the guy who was a terrible fit and also old and then got injured and became worse.

Oh I just meant that we are getting a bit off track in the OEL replacement thread.

Replacing him is about...how to we leverage that minimal cap savings into an actual steady, reliably Top-4D? Actually...we desperately need two of them at least. But it becomes a little bit like the Mikheyev thing where you're going to pay a premium for guys who have those sort of traits and fill that sort of role.

You can find underappreciated assets. They are risky but that is what a team in our position needs to do.

You cant keep signing players that are already known commodities to contracts that are slightly above what they are worth and expect to gain ground that way.

 

[biturbo19]

That does not really help us towards a contention window.

We are so inefficient with how we've spent our cap. This is why I feel the current plan is pure insanity.



Oh I just meant that we are getting a bit off track in the OEL replacement thread.

You can find underappreciated assets. They are risky but that is what a team in our position needs to do.

You cant keep signing players that are already known commodities to contracts that are slightly above what they are worth and expect to gain ground that way.

Yeah. Absolutely. You want to sign a Montour like the Panthers and randomly have him break out one year and massively exceed his value added.


Thing is...nobody, even the Panthers saw that kind of spike coming.

That's definitely the sort of inefficiency you want to exploit. But so does literally every other team, and most of the time...absolutely nobody sees it coming.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yeah. Absolutely. You want to sign a Montour like the Panthers and randomly have him break out one year and massively exceed his value added.


Thing is...nobody, even the Panthers saw that kind of spike coming.

That's definitely the sort of inefficiency you want to exploit. But so does literally every other team, and most of the time...absolutely nobody sees it coming.

Panthers acquired a number of players that had the potential to break out.

Montour & Forsling hit, Juolevi and a bunch of others missed. That is how its done.

 

[MarkMM]

Other than the fact he got injured, what was the problem with targeting something they badly needed with Mikheyev's speed, two-way ability, PKing, etc.?

I was a bit skeptical of it initially. But what he was able to play when healthy, he brought all sorts of the things we were badly missing, and continued to be missing when he was shut down.


50pt pace who contributes much needed speed, PK ability and flexibility to move up and down the roster due to two-way reliability isn't so bad. As far as UFA premiums go...i don't even think it's anywhere near as bad as it initially looked.

I didn't like the Mikheyev signing because it seemed slightly high (but within the UFA premium range) and limited our ability to address our biggest needs.

It seems like he was part of the plan to re-make the forward corps, and my guess was he was part of a plan to get someone like him while moving out someone who's slow (like Boeser) or small (like Garland), or both.

If that's the case, then Mikheyev wasn't a bad move, their inability to execute on the rest of their plan was the problem, and if they misjudged the market then yeah, they shouldn't have moved on Mikheyev.

 

[me2]

Yeah. Absolutely. You want to sign a Montour like the Panthers and randomly have him break out one year and massively exceed his value added.


Thing is...nobody, even the Panthers saw that kind of spike coming.

That's definitely the sort of inefficiency you want to exploit. But so does literally every other team, and most of the time...absolutely nobody sees it coming.

One problem is after they went at a winger they needed in Mikheyev then went straight back to the bargain bin pile and added Beauvillier without cleaning house.

OEL's buyout creates brief opportunity to get the kind of players they need, they can't afford to waste that opportunity. It might be the last they get heading into the troubled cap waters ahead.

 

[biturbo19]

I didn't like the Mikheyev signing because it seemed slightly high (but within the UFA premium range) and limited our ability to address our biggest needs.

It seems like he was part of the plan to re-make the forward corps, and my guess was he was part of a plan to get someone like him while moving out someone who's slow (like Boeser) or small (like Garland), or both.

If that's the case, then Mikheyev wasn't a bad move, their inability to execute on the rest of their plan was the problem, and if they misjudged the market then yeah, they shouldn't have moved on Mikheyev.

Yeah, i absolutely agree with that. It's one of those things where it's hard to separate what they were actually able to do, from what they intended to do. It's hard to tell as a fan obviously.

If they thought Mikheyev was the "fix" for things, that's problematic for sure.

But if he was intended to be part of the reshaping of the team...it's a step in the right direction. An expensive one, but in the right direction at least.

One problem is after they went at a winger they needed in Mikheyev then went straight back to the bargain bin pile and added Beauvillier without cleaning house.

OEL's buyout creates brief opportunity to get the kind of players they need, they can't afford to waste that opportunity. It might be the last they get heading into the troubled cap waters ahead.

Beauvillier to me was a cap dump throw-in to make the Horvat deal work. I don't know that they really targeted him specifically, but among the options in Long Island...he was the best bet and that's the one they made. I still think that trade was soft, but Beauvillier is the epitome of a "take 'em or leave 'em" player. If he sticks around that's fine. He plays hard, he's got alright skill, he's responsible, he even had some weird chemistry with Pettersson for a second. But he's the definition of a "middle-6 filler" winger. He's not terrible at anything, but he's also not particularly good at anything. He's also small.

If someone wants to send value for him, ship him out immediately. But i doubt that happens. I don't hate having him on the team. He's not actively annoying like some past and current Canucks wingers have been.

 

[Nick Lang]

I didn't like the Mikheyev signing because it seemed slightly high (but within the UFA premium range) and limited our ability to address our biggest needs.

It seems like he was part of the plan to re-make the forward corps, and my guess was he was part of a plan to get someone like him while moving out someone who's slow (like Boeser) or small (like Garland), or both.

If that's the case, then Mikheyev wasn't a bad move, their inability to execute on the rest of their plan was the problem, and if they misjudged the market then yeah, they shouldn't have moved on Mikheyev.

Yup sometimes you want something really bad but you totally can't afford it because you've made a couple other impulse buys recently. But then hey you just say to hell with it and buy it anyways. I guess yeah we got Mikeyhev but at some point the credit card bill comes due. Pretty irresponsible considering the situation. Adds just a little more pressure and tightens the screw on allowable error just that much more.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yeah, i absolutely agree with that. It's one of those things where it's hard to separate what they were actually able to do, from what they intended to do. It's hard to tell as a fan obviously.

If they thought Mikheyev was the "fix" for things, that's problematic for sure.

But if he was intended to be part of the reshaping of the team...it's a step in the right direction. An expensive one, but in the right direction at least.




Beauvillier to me was a cap dump throw-in to make the Horvat deal work. I don't know that they really targeted him specifically, but among the options in Long Island...he was the best bet and that's the one they made. I still think that trade was soft, but Beauvillier is the epitome of a "take 'em or leave 'em" player. If he sticks around that's fine. He plays hard, he's got alright skill, he's responsible, he even had some weird chemistry with Pettersson for a second. But he's the definition of a "middle-6 filler" winger. He's not terrible at anything, but he's also not particularly good at anything. He's also small.

If someone wants to send value for him, ship him out immediately. But i doubt that happens. I don't hate having him on the team. He's not actively annoying like some past and current Canucks wingers have been.

They should have got an asset for taking on Beaus full contract.

 

[MS]

They went and bough high (it was the first moments of UFA after all) on yet another winger when the need was so obviously elsewhere in the lineup. The process was reckless.

Results were fine, in a vacuum. Until we hear they let him play through a torn ACL...

I'm personally not buying his sudden scoring efficiency. That has never been his game.

Unrelated to the UFA process, I'm nervously waiting to see how his skating looks post knee surgery.

Mikheyev has scored 40+ ES points/82 in 3 of his 4 NHL seasons and the one where he didn’t he was recovering from a serious skate cut to his wrist.

This is his normal.

 

[biturbo19]

Yup sometimes you want something really bad but you totally can't afford it because you've made a couple other impulse buys recently. But then hey you just say to hell with it and buy it anyways. I guess yeah we got Mikeyhev but at some point the credit card bill comes due. Pretty irresponsible considering the situation. Adds just a little more pressure and tightens the screw on allowable error just that much more.

The thing is...i don't have any desire to dump Mikheyev's contract.


If Boeser or Garland were blown out the airlock, i wouldn't shed a tear. But that overpayment on Mikheyev seems like...well, that's fine. It's obviously better if you can just draft and develop players like that yourself. But i don't have an issue with it. The problems are elsewhere...

They should have got an asset for taking on Beaus full contract.

They did though.


Unfortunately, it's Raty who is probably never going to be a real NHLer.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

They did though.


Unfortunately, it's Raty who is probably never going to be a real NHLer.

The values are off.

Räty + 1st for Horvat straight up.

If Islanders need to dump cap they should have had to add.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Mikheyev has scored 40+ ES points/82 in 3 of his 4 NHL seasons and the one where he didn’t he was recovering from a serious skate cut to his wrist.

This is his normal.

Him being injured or recovering from an injury is also normal.

His game looked nothing like his previous 3 seasons.

I excpect, assuming his skating is back to 100%, that he will be a lesser offensive player but a much improved defensive contributor for us.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Mikheyev has scored 40+ ES points/82 in 3 of his 4 NHL seasons and the one where he didn’t he was recovering from a serious skate cut to his wrist.

This is his normal.

I am sure you don't like xG but this is what I'm talking about when I say he was an opportunistic scorer.

I expect his counting stats to go down and his underlying profile to go up.

 

[kinghock]

The only guy I wanted in free agency was Gavrikov and I hate him now.

Pierre-Luc Dubois noted he talked with former teammate Vladislav Gavrikov, who spoke very highly of how much he loved playing in LA. With a smile, PLD said he's excited to be teammates with Gavy again with the Kings.

 

[Bgav]

Pierre-Luc Dubois noted he talked with former teammate Vladislav Gavrikov, who spoke very highly of how much he loved playing in LA. With a smile, PLD said he's excited to be teammates with Gavy again with the Kings.

ok lol

 

[MS]

Him being injured or recovering from an injury is also normal.

His game looked nothing like his previous 3 seasons.

I excpect, assuming his skating is back to 100%, that he will be a lesser offensive player but a much improved defensive contributor for us.

The fact that he’s trending into Sami Salo territory in terms of suffering a separate freak injury every year is a totally different thing.

When healthy, this is a quality, consistent ES scorer.

 

[Nick Lang]

The thing is...i don't have any desire to dump Mikheyev's contract.


If Boeser or Garland were blown out the airlock, i wouldn't shed a tear. But that overpayment on Mikheyev seems like...well, that's fine. It's obviously better if you can just draft and develop players like that yourself. But i don't have an issue with it. The problems are elsewhere...



They did though.


Unfortunately, it's Raty who is probably never going to be a real NHLer.

I don't want to dump Mikeyhev for Boeser or Garland either. Mik is probably the second best winger on the team and I'm also fine with $$. That's not the problem. You can't just pretend some of your contracts don't exist and replace them with more preferred players because the old guys still count towards the salary cap.

This would be a similar situation if they went out and signed two LD's say Graves and Soucy without buying out OEL. Signing Mikeyhev without trading either contract meant we didn't have money for defence last year, we also had to pay a second to dump Dickinson, and we are still sitting here without enough money for a 3C, and two top 4 defence. Similarly, it would have been nice to replace Myers with Severson, but we couldn't afford to do that either. In some situations it might be prudent to make a gamble like this but everyone on earth knew the financial climate of the league the last several years.

I'm sure you totally get this though and you understand the intricacies involved. As it stands we're currently going to have trouble fitting Mikeyhev's contract under the cap if we sign a couple more players ... which is all but certain. It may end up being our downfall again this year unfortunately.

 

[MarkMM]

I don't want to dump Mikeyhev for Boeser or Garland either. Mik is probably the second best winger on the team and I'm also fine with $$. That's not the problem. You can't just pretend some of your contracts don't exist and replace them with more preferred players because the old guys still count towards the salary cap.

This would be a similar situation if they went out and signed two LD's say Graves and Soucy without buying out OEL. Signing Mikeyhev without trading either contract meant we didn't have money for defence last year, we also had to pay a second to dump Dickinson, and we are still sitting here without enough money for a 3C, and two top 4 defence. Similarly, it would have been nice to replace Myers with Severson, but we couldn't afford to do that either. In some situations it might be prudent to make a gamble like this but everyone on earth knew the financial climate of the league the last several years.

I'm sure you totally get this though and you understand the intricacies involved. As it stands we're currently going to have trouble fitting Mikeyhev's contract under the cap if we sign a couple more players ... which is all but certain. It may end up being our downfall again this year unfortunately.

Yeah from their own words it seems like management signed Mikheyev assuming they'd be able to trade Garland (picking him given that they willingly re-signed Boeser so he was probably in their plans), so probably some thought along the lines of replacing Garland with Mikheyev, similar cap hits, hoping for similar production probably, but upgrading on size and speed.

And then they couldn't move Garland and Boeser's play fell off / got injured.

They gambled and lost and had to scramble to pay off Dickinson and have been triaging since, including the buy-out when they couldn't offload Myers either.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The fact that he’s trending into Sami Salo territory in terms of suffering a separate freak injury every year is a totally different thing.

You can call it that if you wish.

Boeser has had the same issue.

When healthy, this is a quality, consistent ES scorer.

As long as we agree last years play is not indictive of who he is.

 

[sewellda]

Hughes - Mayfield
Soucy - Hronek
Cole - Myers

Extras: Hirose, McWard, Briesbois, Rathbone, Wolanin, Juulsen

 

[God]

delete

 

[Green Blank Stare]

Bring back Stecher.