Speculation: Who do we target on D after OEL Buyout?

[strattonius]

He was never a volume shooter in the KHL.

Maybe he will change. Lets not forget that despite being a rookie he is 27 and most likely a finished product.



edit. Sorry. This is the wrong thread for this.

He's also incredibly dynamic around the net and will adjust to the NHL game in his second year.

You're just making this regurgitated shot% argument that everyone has heard 100x. His shot % will dip but his play is likely to improve.

I don't think he's going to Clip 40 goals at any point in his career but we have a streaky 30g scorer that plays well with Pettersson. Find something else to dump on.

 

[sting101]

He was never a volume shooter in the KHL.

Maybe he will change. Lets not forget that despite being a rookie he is 27 and most likely a finished product.



edit. Sorry. This is the wrong thread for this.

Well now you're just being negative for whatever reason. Nobody is expecting him to become a completely different player, you are the one suggesting that his on ice shooting pctg suggests he will regress badly and that he is also not that valuable a player.

In reality as i have outlined you have a rookie that obviously will regress in shooting pctg as goalies and teams adjust but also a player who should be willing and able to assert himself more in ice time, shots on goal and PP1 time. The net results of that should off set the shooting percentage as long as he doesn't lose his confidence which doesn't look to be an issue for AK.

The point is that he can still quite easily be a 30 plus goal scorer and a more rounded player for this team with a substantial value around the league even though i highly doubt that matters given that our management team went out of their way to add this dynamo and not just trade it away for some pie in the sky rebuild that people want

 

[rypper]

He was never a volume shooter in the KHL.

Maybe he will change. Lets not forget that despite being a rookie he is 27 and most likely a finished product.



edit. Sorry. This is the wrong thread for this.

Just out of curiosity where do you think Kuzmenko will end up points wise next season?

 

[LemonSauceD]

Garland for POJ would be something I’d try and work out.

I think POJ is on the cusp of reallt breaking out and proving he’s a capable top 4 defenseman.

 

[strattonius]

Garland for POJ would be something I’d try and work out.

I think POJ is on the cusp of reallt breaking out and proving he’s a capable top 4 defenseman.

We would have to add I would think. Pittsburgh will be well aware that POJ might break out and Garland is a)more expensive and b)a winger.

Question is what piece would you add to get the deal done?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Just out of curiosity where do you think Kuzmenko will end up points wise next season?

I'll say 25 + 35 for next year.

He's also incredibly dynamic around the net and will adjust to the NHL game in his second year.

You're just making this regurgitated shot% argument that everyone has heard 100x. His shot % will dip but his play is likely to improve.

Well seems like some people still need to hear it.

I don't think he's going to Clip 40 goals at any point in his career but we have a streaky 30g scorer that plays well with Pettersson. Find something else to dump on.

Is it okay if I just completely ignore every time you say something like this?

Its getting incredibly tiresome.

 

[strattonius]

Is it okay if I just completely ignore every time you say something like this?

Its getting incredibly tiresome.

You're free to do whatever you want.

If it's something you keep hearing perhaps your arguments suck.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Kuzmenko is showing up to camp more cut than a cheese grater. Rocket incoming, 60 goals on 62 shots.

 

[Diversification]

If the player is a net negative nhl caliber player who makes my eyes wanna bleed with his mistakes then I don’t really give a shit.

But I see what you’re saying since Allvin/Tocchet likely don’t see things through that lens.

You put Myers on the bottom pairing with a low-event partner - Hirose or Wolanin, say - he'll be decent, just overpayed. So, given the assets we likely would have to part with to trade him before his bonus, I can understand the reasoning for keeping him and letting his contract run out.

Plus, if we struggle this season, he would be a TDL trade chip.

 

[VanJack]

Scanning that UFA board for d-men on Cap Friendly gives a Canuck fan a sinking feeling. Either too old; too slow or too expensive.

Looking more and more like you either roll the dice with a mixture of returnees and call-ups from Abbotsford; or wait for either the waiver wire in September or for some sort of 'hockey trade' to take shape.

 

[MS]

The Canuck way would be to lose Rathbone on waivers this season. I hope they deal him for a pick at the draft even if it's a 4th rounder. Better than losing him for nothing. Maybe a team like the Sharks or Hawks have some interest.

Rathbone is worthless and I'd be stunned to get anything for him, even a 4th rounder.

He's basically a bust at this point and is a UFA at the end of the season unless he plays 50+ NHL games, which seems unlikely.

Kuz if he stays healthy with those hands and shot and playing with Pettersson will easily get 30.

Agree that the shooting pct will regress but he also didnt avg that much ice time at 16 minutes and wasn't exactly being a volume shooter either. By comparison Boeser 2.75 SOG & 5.05 attempts in his career vs 1.76 and 3.40 for Kuzmenko. He can have his pctgs drop to 18% and still be a 33 goal scorer with a .5 SOG uptick

Kuzmenko is a unicorn. There isn't anyone else like him in the NHL who is a legitimate elite sniper while also being an extremely low-volume shooter.

He might not shoot 27% but I'd bet money he's over 20% again this year. He isn't going to regress down to the level that volume shooters are at unless he really changes his game. And if he shoots more, he'll probably score more even if there is a % drop.

 

[Cogburn]

If Pearson is expected to return, we have 3-4 spots on D and a top 9 C to acquire for about 9 million.

I think we're going high end on one spot, and the rest will be bargain binners, reclamation projects or someone from our depth getting promoted (Rathbone, Wolanin, Brisebois, Bear, Dermott, Hirose, McWard, Pettersson, Woo and Johansson and Burroughs, Juulsen and Keeper as UFAs).

Foligno (yeah I know he's older then idea), Compher or Rodrigues as our C, and the rumour about Soucy earlier this week didn't immediately scare me away. Mayfield wouldn't be awful either.

Otherwise, expect a big trade...which I don't know how I will feel about that thought.

 

[biturbo19]

I don't understand why Allvin is saying we are not trading Myers. Is this some kind of reverse psychology trick? Or maybe it's resignation that we can't unload him for near nothing. The thought of unloading both OEL and Myers to give us 12 million to spend on a 2 new top 4 d to add to Hughes and Hronek is very tantalizing. I hope Allvin is bluffing with his not trading Myers talk.

The problem is, as nice as this would be...it's difficult to make that Myers deal early enough to actually use that extra cap space for something better. That's why we might end up stuck with him. $6M in cap space in September isn't really that useful. And as much as Myers sucks, he's got trade protection and is still a competent #5ish RHD with size and the ability to play short spurts of minutes above that level.

Dunno if its been posted but Dhaliwal reporting that the Canucks have just offered Burroughs a new contract.

Honestly I like it. He’ll probably come cheap and brings some sandpaper to our team. As long as he’s a 6/7 guy you rotate in and out of the lineup and not a regular logging 20+ mins

Burroughs is a good guy to give a contract to. Keep him in the organization. But his value is as a guy who you can easily sneak through waivers to create that extra level of depth with the AHL squad. If he's penciled in as anything more than a #7D, we're in trouble. Even then...i don't think it's difficult to improve that spot for a relatively low price.

No to any of these UFAs aside from maybe Schenn. I think the best move would be to try and acquire some younger dmen prospects who are buried in the AHL on other teams and appear to be ready to make the next step. Cost shouldn't be too much aside from similar prospects on the Canucks. These are the kind of guys who could end up being the next sleeper and turn into a legit top 4 dman.

Some names:

CBJ - Marcus Bjork RD, 25, 6-3" 203
LA - Jacob Moverare LD, 24, 6-2" 198
NJ - Reilly Walsh RD, 24, 5-11" 181
NYI - Robin Salo LD, 24, 6-0" 181
NYR - Matthew Robertson LD, 22, 6-4" 202
OTT - Jacob Bernard-Docker RD, 22, 6-1" 190
PHI - Ronnie Attard, RD, 24, 6-3" 205
VGK - Daniil Miromanov RD, 25, 6-4" 205
WPG - Simon Lundmark RD, 22, 6-2" 201

JBD is certainly an interesting case with the Sens. Seems like he's been sort of passed over and replaced by other acquisitions. He seems pretty available. Curious if we've got the right pieces to swap for him. Hoglander comes to mind, though i don't love it.

Also brings to mind their situation with Tiny BrinCat. If they end up moving him as expected...maybe that's for futures and other assets. At that point, it's clear that they intended to acquire a pure goal-scoring sort of winger. Wonder if Boeser wouldn't pique their interest. Would obviously want more than JBD coming back as a return, but i think that's entirely the sort of package it'd be easy to tuck him into, along with other things.


Moverare is also interesting to me. But his name is apt, in that he rarely moves. His skating just doesn't seem to have come along to an NHL level. He's been passed on a depth chart by so many other guys, i'd imagine he's available for literally nothing. He's got some similarities to Maatta whom Hronek has found success with. But i don't think he's nearly as smart or "safe" a player. So acquiring him would be purely an experiment that you have to be in for on a cost that you can just walk away at the end of camp and not feel bad. The guy will be 25 by the time the season opens. Expecting improvement at that point is not wise.

The Canuck way would be to lose Rathbone on waivers this season. I hope they deal him for a pick at the draft even if it's a 4th rounder. Better than losing him for nothing. Maybe a team like the Sharks or Hawks have some interest.

I don't really see any place for Rathbone either. But he's in the awkward place of having...literally no value. He's a small offensive D who hasn't established himself as NHL caliber and he's not very young anymore. He's also coming off a mostly lost season. They tried so hard to shoehorn him into an NHL roster spot after pressure from his agent...but he just wasn't there and coaches didn't like him. Preferred to play junk like Stillman on that bottom pairing, because he at least offered some semblance of toughness or whatever.

Whatever we could get for Rathbone, i'd be happy with. A 4th sounds really ambitious though.

Pretty much his highest TOI in the KHL


His KHL profile is not that of a sniper.

He COULD do what you are saying but I think we should not expect it. We should expect a pretty heavy decline from last year.

I don't think Kuzmenko is any kind of "sniper". Never has been. His profile is that of an extremely high efficiency goal mouth finisher. He's not some guy shooting an unsustainable % by shooting out the lights from range with a bunch of unsustainable luck. He's a guy who makes like 30G a year worth of 2 ft putts into the net. If he's playing with Pettersson next year like he should be, i fully think 30G is an easy baseline for him. He's just extremely good at the one skill that a winger needs most when playing with a creative playmaker like Petey. He's so shifty and has that fantastic timing around the net to finish plays. As long as you don't ask him to drive his own line...he's found money.

 

[biturbo19]

Rathbone is worthless and I'd be stunned to get anything for him, even a 4th rounder.

He's basically a bust at this point and is a UFA at the end of the season unless he plays 50+ NHL games, which seems unlikely.



Kuzmenko is a unicorn. There isn't anyone else like him in the NHL who is a legitimate elite sniper while also being an extremely low-volume shooter.

He might not shoot 27% but I'd bet money he's over 20% again this year. He isn't going to regress down to the level that volume shooters are at unless he really changes his game. And if he shoots more, he'll probably score more even if there is a % drop.

Yeah. Rathbone has basically zero value. If we can get anything at all for him, take it. He's not even really useful as organizational depth at this point.


I'm not sure Kuzmenko is a complete unicorn. I look at him as very similar to a guy like Guentzel. Who also shoots at a consistently high 15-20%. That's probably more the range that Kuzmenko will settle into. But if you put a player with that sort of skillset along a player who has the chops to set them up for those sort of tap-ins...you're going to get a high shooting percentage. That's just the way it works.

Kuzmenko isn't going to drown his shooting percentage with watered down shots from the perimeter with little hope of going in. He's going to pad it out with that agility and shiftiness to get his stick free at just the right moment to bang a puck in from a foot outside the blue paint. Those are the sort of shots he takes. I don't know if i can even recall a time he pulled a Samuelsson or Raymond and just fired a no hoper into the crest from 30 feet out.

 

[me2]

He might not shoot 27% but I'd bet money he's over 20% again this year. He isn't going to regress down to the level that volume shooters are at unless he really changes his game. And if he shoots more, he'll probably score more even if there is a % drop.

I'd take that bet. None of the players that hit 20%+ last year had hit that mark since before COVID. The two that hit it before COVID, Point and Draisaitl, have only done it one other time.

However, they all hit 14.0-19.9 consistently. If Kuzmenko regresses then he's not likely to regress that far, to the high teens, and he'll get more PP time to make up for it. I expect him to be around 30-40 again due to increased usage and opportunity.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I'm calling it now.

Kuzmenko will be just as effective but this year less pucks will go in, he'll get more assists and around the same number of points.

And the usual suspects will bleat for months about how we 'should have dealt him at the deadline last year' because they will erroneously believe he's a less valuable player just because he was the last one to touch the puck before it crossed the goal line like 10 fewer times.

 

[Huggy]

Please God.

 

[Huggy]

Can we bring Tanev home now that the Flames are imploding.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Im calling it now.

He is far less valuable player because of his cap hit.

There seems to be a group of posters here who have not caught up to how the league works under a hard cap.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You're free to do whatever you want.

If it's something you keep hearing perhaps your arguments suck.

The few posters that keep saying this I really dont hold in that high regard.

Ill just pretend you are arguing in good faith and not throwing these juvenile jabs everytime from now on.

 

[racerjoe]

Lets get this back on track here and talk about the D. All things being equal, I would target Soucy in FA, and see what he asks for. If we can get him on the right deal he is a really good fit. Brings that size. Then I would really Marcus Petterson to fit with Hronek. Think together they would be a really good duo. That to me would be a really good top 4.

I have no idea though what pits wants at all for him though.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Player Discussion - Andrei Kuzmenko

anson carter is probably the closest kuz has handily outscored him but i do give anson props for bringing something out in the sedins Then Anson Carter thought he was worth more cause of a career year then left, never reaching those totals again.

forums.hfboards.com

@racerjoe is right... I wrote my reply in the Kuz thread.

 

[strattonius]

Nobody wants to trade Kuzmenko anymore. He has shown he wants to be here and he has chemistry with Pettersson. He also has a lot of room to improve his NHL game after 1 season. There is simply no better forward on our team that has an ability to read the play and handle the puck around the net like he does - it's why he maintains a well above average sh%.

 

[biturbo19]

Lets get this back on track here and talk about the D. All things being equal, I would target Soucy in FA, and see what he asks for. If we can get him on the right deal he is a really good fit. Brings that size. Then I would really Marcus Petterson to fit with Hronek. Think together they would be a really good duo. That to me would be a really good top 4.

I have no idea though what pits wants at all for him though.

Definitely curious if Pettersson kicks loose in Pittsburgh. I'm not sure how Dubas is going to view him. But he'd definitely be a top tier sort of partner for a guy like Hronek if he's available.

The thing with Pittsburgh's situation though, is that they're already pretty clearly looking for a Top-4 LHD to replace Dumoulin. I'm not sure even Dubas is gutsy enough to make that hole even deeper and more desperate to fill. Trying to bring in TWO Top-4D in one offseason? That's madness.


Oh wait...that's exactly what we desperately need to do. lol.


I think Jan Rutta is the more likely candidate to be moved from the Penguins defence. And i've said before, i think he's a pretty okay realistic target for us. He's not a real Top-4D, but he's got a lot of the traits and experience to fill that spot beside Hughes where maybe a #5D can look a little bit like a #4 and not sink the whole pairing. He's played a similar-ish role before in Tampa. Part of that rotation Tampa ran where he played some top pairing minutes with Hedman. Maybe that's how we have to approach the spot beside Hughes until we can find the right partner? Just tag-team a guy like Rutta with a Schenn/Bear/etc type?

 

[racerjoe]

Definitely curious if Pettersson kicks loose in Pittsburgh. I'm not sure how Dubas is going to view him. But he'd definitely be a top tier sort of partner for a guy like Hronek if he's available.

The thing with Pittsburgh's situation though, is that they're already pretty clearly looking for a Top-4 LHD to replace Dumoulin. I'm not sure even Dubas is gutsy enough to make that hole even deeper and more desperate to fill. Trying to bring in TWO Top-4D in one offseason? That's madness.


Oh wait...that's exactly what we desperately need to do. lol.


I think Jan Rutta is the more likely candidate to be moved from the Penguins defence. And i've said before, i think he's a pretty okay realistic target for us. He's not a real Top-4D, but he's got a lot of the traits and experience to fill that spot beside Hughes where maybe a #5D can look a little bit like a #4 and not sink the whole pairing. He's played a similar-ish role before in Tampa. Part of that rotation Tampa ran where he played some top pairing minutes with Hedman. Maybe that's how we have to approach the spot beside Hughes until we can find the right partner? Just tag-team a guy like Rutta with a Schenn/Bear/etc type?

I have no clue what Pits is going to be looking to do. It sounded like he would be on the move under Hextall, but what Dubas is thinking is unknown. But thought he would be worth mentioning. I also think its more likely we go after a guy in that age bracket, unless its super short term fit.

Durzi would have been a good target for that bet on potential, but I don't see where he fits currently if we still have myers.

There are some names out there so we will see where some of these chips fall soon enough.